Insteon HUB (2245) cloud servers shut down

[KeithA]

I wasn't using the server HOWEVER, I have a ISY994 and over 100 devices with ELK integration.  I had just bought a new house Making this the 3rd house I have installed it in and was installing Insteon when their stock ran dry. I've been contacting them as I have the entire upstairs needing automation. 

Since downstairs is Insteon, any suggestions as to what system I should migrate to for the upstairs to keep everything working together?  Should I abandon the few thousand dollars and start over with another system?  I do not want any cloud based system. I want everything running locally.  Thanks in advance for your help!!

[Wayne664]

For those of us who just joined this forum because (as ClickChick puts it) we awoke in shock, I've been doing a lot of reading on Polisy (pro) and the insteon dongle (insteon portable usb adapter and interface 2448A7).

I know most of us are just looking for the simplest solution to getting back to life as normal, and it looks like the Polisy solution (although it might have its 'steep learning/programing curve') will fill that role and then some.

As the "pros" here alude to, Polisy essentially replaces the Insteon hub (non-cloud based as of yesterday) with a LAN server that will not be reliant on any outside source. Your insteon hub then becomes worthless (RESET or not) unless, as one member wrote, you use it as a strong local node (I haven't explored that yet). Dongle is about $48 on ebay w/tax-shipping; Polisy from UD direct is $379 and the Polisy Pro (only one available currently when I looked last night) is $409. I personally agree with another member and always hardwire (ethernet direct) critical info transfer, so I don't see a need myself for the WiFi/bluetooth Pro option currently (but I also agree with Teken that for only a few bucks more you have the latest and greatest, and who knows how that might be useful next month?)

Polisy will broadcast via RF 915 MHz signal to the dual band insteon devices nearby through the Insteon interface 2448A7 (Insteon dimmer 2477D are dual band; are the 2476D dual band also? is that what the D stands for? Power line only devices won't work as the initial jump point unless you're using the older PLM ("power line modem"?) but this relies on older serial line and has proven very unreliable in the long run; ie stock up on capacitors! There's also a PLM USB plug in modem from Smarthome, never seen it) Best to pay the price for the latest and greatest (Polisy (pro) with a usb adapter/interface.) Once programmed, all your Insteon devices should be up and running, with scenes and voice control.

Better still, this device is built for FULL CONTROL. Not just insteon, but also Z-wave, energy devices, Tesla chargers, etc etc.  Not being any sort of expert with all this, I ask ... what other lighting switches could I purchase as I expand, that would rival Insteon Dimmers in form and function??? (just bought 3 dimmers on ebay at a ridiculous price).

Here are the UD links I found that will be helpful getting everything set up.

General Polisy set up for Insteon, Z-wave, or other devices:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Polisy:User_Guide

UD Mobile info page (this will replace your Insteon App on your iphone/android phone):

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile

Setting up the Polisy with Alexa/Amazon Echo:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Amazon_Echo_Integration_V3

OK, that's a mouthful. Hopefully its of some help to all the other novices/semi-tech users to getting back to normal.

I haven't purchased the Polisy yet, as I'll be away from home for a bit and figured I'll buy it and set it up on my return. I did buy the insteon adapter/USB interface 2448A7 on ebay last night -- figuring it may be in short supply soon, as has been discussed here extensively.  One could speculate that Insteon product 3rd party market (ie eBay) prices may drop soon, as people unload Instegone for other platforms.

-- W

[lilyoyo1]

16 minutes ago, KeithA said:

I wasn't using the server HOWEVER, I have a ISY994 and over 100 devices with ELK integration.  I had just bought a new house Making this the 3rd house I have installed it in and was installing Insteon when their stock ran dry. I've been contacting them as I have the entire upstairs needing automation. 

Since downstairs is Insteon, any suggestions as to what system I should migrate to for the upstairs to keep everything working together?  Should I abandon the few thousand dollars and start over with another system?  I do not want any cloud based system. I want everything running locally.  Thanks in advance for your help!!

Zwave would be a good alternative though nothing has the flexibility that insteon has. You dont have to abandon anything unless you want all of the same device type throughout the house.

[lilyoyo1]

13 minutes ago, Wayne664 said:

For those of us who just joined this forum because (as ClickChick puts it) we awoke in shock, I've been doing a lot of reading on Polisy (pro) and the insteon dongle (insteon portable usb adapter and interface 2448A7).

I know most of us are just looking for the simplest solution to getting back to life as normal, and it looks like the Polisy solution (although it might have its 'steep learning/programing curve') will fill that role and then some.

As the "pros" here alude to, Polisy essentially replaces the Insteon hub (non-cloud based as of yesterday) with a LAN server that will not be reliant on any outside source. Your insteon hub then becomes worthless (RESET or not) unless, as one member wrote, you use it as a strong local node (I haven't explored that yet). Dongle is about $48 on ebay w/tax-shipping; Polisy from UD direct is $379 and the Polisy Pro (only one available currently when I looked last night) is $409. I personally agree with another member and always hardwire (ethernet direct) critical info transfer, so I don't see a need myself for the WiFi/bluetooth Pro option currently (but I also agree with Teken that for only a few bucks more you have the latest and greatest, and who knows how that might be useful next month?)

Polisy will broadcast via RF 915 MHz signal to the dual band insteon devices nearby through the Insteon interface 2448A7 (Insteon dimmer 2477D are dual band; are the 2476D dual band also? is that what the D stands for? Power line only devices won't work as the initial jump point unless you're using the older PLM ("power line modem"?) but this relies on older serial line and has proven very unreliable in the long run; ie stock up on capacitors! There's also a PLM USB plug in modem from Smarthome, never seen it) Best to pay the price for the latest and greatest (Polisy (pro) with a usb adapter/interface.) Once programmed, all your Insteon devices should be up and running, with scenes and voice control.

Better still, this device is built for FULL CONTROL. Not just insteon, but also Z-wave, energy devices, Tesla chargers, etc etc.  Not being any sort of expert with all this, I ask ... what other lighting switches could I purchase as I expand, that would rival Insteon Dimmers in form and function??? (just bought 3 dimmers on ebay at a ridiculous price).

Here are the UD links I found that will be helpful getting everything set up.

General Polisy set up for Insteon, Z-wave, or other devices:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Polisy:User_Guide

UD Mobile info page (this will replace your Insteon App on your iphone/android phone):

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile

Setting up the Polisy with Alexa/Amazon Echo:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Amazon_Echo_Integration_V3

OK, that's a mouthful. Hopefully its of some help to all the other novices/semi-tech users to getting back to normal.

I haven't purchased the Polisy yet, as I'll be away from home for a bit and figured I'll buy it and set it up on my return. I did buy the insteon adapter/USB interface 2448A7 on ebay last night -- figuring it may be in short supply soon, as has been discussed here extensively.  One could speculate that Insteon product 3rd party market (ie eBay) prices may drop soon, as people unload Instegone for other platforms.

-- W

The "D" stands for dimmer not dual band. The 2476 is powerline only. IMO, no other DIY switch matches insteon for form or function (though looks are subjective). The next best thing to use for switches would probably be zwave. Id recommend the zooz 700 series devices

[Wayne664]

suspected 2476s were pl only. That's why I started switching them all out years ago. Only a few left in the unused rooms.

Agree, nothing matches the Insteon line. Haven't looked closely at the zwave, but probably will now.

[MrBill]

5 minutes ago, Wayne664 said:

Haven't looked closely at the zwave, but probably will now.

If you're just starting with z-wave stick with all 700 series devices (there are also older 500 series, and even older 300 series devices).  Having older devices can slow down your entire z-wave network.

[Wayne664]

new critical question.

If using both Insteon and Zwave, do I need two dongles? Instegone 2448A7  and the 700 series  zwave stick?

[JRM]

I have a question, will I need two Polisy devices, since I have two locations with hubs? I checked UD and they are out of the Polisy, but have one Pro. 
Thanks

[tazman]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

I have a question, will I need two Polisy devices, since I have two locations with hubs? I checked UD and they are out of the Polisy, but have one Pro. 
Thanks

Yes you will need one for each location.

2 hours ago, Wayne664 said:

new critical question.

If using both Insteon and Zwave, do I need two dongles? Instegone 2448A7  and the 700 series  zwave stick?

Yes and it can be tight fitting them both in the USB ports because they are close together. Some use extension cables or a USB hub.

[gscottmalibu]

You don't need to spend $400 dollars on a new hub guys, just use OpenHAB, it will communicate with your existing Insteon hub and it works with alexa/google home assistant. Hopefully you haven't factory reset it, because then you'll have to go back and re-add all of your devices by their ID's (this means pulling out all of the light switches and reading the labels, fun right :)? Read more about how people did that by clicking here. 

On another note, a lot of the older Insteon hubs (who knows if they're still selling defective ones) had problems where they would stop working (the company would send you a free replacement, but now that they're out of business, they won't be), supposedly something to do with a bad capacitor - but more likely a design issue that causes the capacitor to blow. It hasn't been researched enough. So what i'm saying is, if you have an older hub, you may want to get a new one if you have a lot of Insteon devices so it doesn't randomly stop working. You may also not want to invest in other gear as you might not be able to get replacements for it when it breaks anymore. Now that Insteon servers are shut down, and trust me, they're not coming back, you'll probably want to use OpenHAB, even though there are other options, this is the most logical, free option (but don't take my word for it, i'm just a engineer/programmer).

From the research that i've done, the Smarthome/Insteon CEO, CIO, and COO have all removed Smarthome and Insteon companies from their LinkedIn profiles. They are likely trying to avoid bad PR for just turning the lights out on all of their loyal customers without any warning. This is a complete slap in the face to anyone who has even a couple of Insteon devices. Some people have over 30 devices, imagine how they feel. The president (Rob Lilleness) who owns Insteon is now investing his time and money into a new company called Nokia Smart Lighting by Smarthome, trying to hide his past with what he did to his loyal customers at Insteon. Read more about that by clicking here. I'm sure none of us will be buying any of those products after what he did with Insteon...

[Brian H]

The HUB did have a similar problem as the 2413 and some other newer designed modules. Using a switching type power supply chip and capacitors not made for a high frequency DC waveform. So I have also seen HUB capacitor replacement information fixing them.

I agree about the totally terrible  handling of the loyal customers that helped them during their early days with our purchasing and using Insteon products.

No NOKIA product will ever be in my future automation plans.

[MrBill]

13 hours ago, Wayne664 said:

new critical question.

If using both Insteon and Zwave, do I need two dongles? Instegone 2448A7  and the 700 series  zwave stick?

Yes.  That is exactly correct.   you may also need a short USB extension cord or 90 adapter to be able to to both plugged in on Polisy. 

I have this issue with my Pi and too many dongles with radios... I choose the ext cord so that I could get them away from other radios...  just about doubled my zigbee coverage area because i got the antennae higher and apparently it liked the orientation I started with, but with the extension cord it's also possible to play with orientation.

[MrBill]

6 hours ago, gscottmalibu said:

It hasn't been researched enough.

there's a BUNCH of threads here on the topic, as it relates to the PLM.    It's cheap undersized capacitors.  Yes they can be replaced DIY if you're good with a soldering iron.   Additionally there's a guy on ebay that repairs both Hubs and PLMs.

6 hours ago, gscottmalibu said:

you'll probably want to use OpenHAB,

Many are moving to Home Assistant for the same reasons you're suggesting OpenHab, It works with Hubs.

6 hours ago, gscottmalibu said:

Some people have over 30 devices,

Some in this forum have even more than that... I don't count anymore but it's somewhere around 130-150 devices.  that's kinda almost average for the active users here.

 

6 hours ago, gscottmalibu said:

who owns Insteon is now investing his time and money into a new company called Nokia Smart Lighting by Smarthome,

That project appears to have also died.  It's been scrubbed from the nokia.com site.  Yes the smartlabsinc.com nokia pages still exist, but they aren't linked to from Nokia anymore.

6 hours ago, gscottmalibu said:

From the research that i've done, the Smarthome/Insteon CEO, CIO, and COO have all removed Smarthome and Insteon companies from their LinkedIn profiles.

This is absolutely correct.  I sent a news tip to someone at Fast Company yesterday.  I do hope the techworld writers pick up and tell the InsteGone story.

[upstatemike]

3 hours ago, Brian H said:

I agree about the totally terrible  handling of the loyal customers that helped them during their early days with our purchasing and using Insteon products.

No NOKIA product will ever be in my future automation plans.

I am starting to wonder if Richmond Capital Partners really intended to shut down the servers supporting the Insteon Hubs or if as financial folks they just didn't understand how the the technology works? I could envision a scenario where they shut things down and screw all the remaining employees one of whom in retaliation makes a point of shutting down the servers on their way out the door just to make Richmond Capital look bad and damage their potential for selling the Smarthome name or technology. There is probably more to this story than we know.

[MrBill]

1 minute ago, upstatemike said:

There is probably more to this story than we know.

I really hope the tech writers of various tech news organizations cover this story.  I only kinda know one guy, and I did send him a DM on twitter yesterday.  It a familiar story we've all heard before.... cloud servers shutdown, leaving customers in the dark (pun intended).

[Athlon]

5 minutes ago, MrBill said:

I really hope the tech writers of various tech news organizations cover this story.  I only kinda know one guy, and I did send him a DM on twitter yesterday.  It a familiar story we've all heard before.... cloud servers shutdown, leaving customers in the dark (pun intended).

I'm a little surprised Engadget hasn't picked it up.

[MrBill]

2 minutes ago, Athlon said:

I'm a little surprised Engadget hasn't picked it up.

I'm a little surprised that NO tech reporters have picked up on it.   If you google "Insteon Shut Down" write now the only sources are 1) this forum 2) reddit 3) the home-assistant forum.  NOTHING ELSE.  Not one tech news organization.

[dbuss]

13 minutes ago, MrBill said:

I'm a little surprised that NO tech reporters have picked up on it.   If you google "Insteon Shut Down" write now the only sources are 1) this forum 2) reddit 3) the home-assistant forum.  NOTHING ELSE.  Not one tech news organization.

This is the only report I've seen.

https://staceyoniot.com/insteon-is-down-and-may-not-be-coming-back/

Here's another.

https://mightygadget.co.uk/insteon-smart-home-automation/?fbclid=IwAR3XhuHbmtz45i-A04Knta6aCIGSEiL0-wGSr19z6fVVisRNYWOTh-y13Co

[Brian H]

My searches also found what MrBill and dbuss found.

It does sound a little strange.

[MrBill]

I started a twitter thread if anyone with twitter access would like to retweet: https://twitter.com/bkel/status/1515701807288356865

 

[dbuss]

18 minutes ago, Brian H said:

My searches also found what MrBill and dbuss found.

It does sound a little strange.

I'm not surprised considering it's a holiday weekend. Although Insteon is important to us users, in the grand scheme of things in the tech world, I question if it's big enough to garner a lot of attention.

[mmb]

15 hours ago, Wayne664 said:

new critical question.

If using both Insteon and Zwave, do I need two dongles? Instegone 2448A7  and the 700 series  zwave stick?

Something like this - Insteon on the right and z-wave on the left.  They are driving a mixed automation network.

[TheLastWorkingHubPro]

Saw this over on Reddit that had attracted no attention. Looks interesting. 

 

 

[RPerrault]

1 hour ago, upstatemike said:

I am starting to wonder if Richmond Capital Partners really intended to shut down the servers supporting the Insteon Hubs or if as financial folks they just didn't understand how the the technology works? I could envision a scenario where they shut things down and screw all the remaining employees one of whom in retaliation makes a point of shutting down the servers on their way out the door just to make Richmond Capital look bad and damage their potential for selling the Smarthome name or technology. There is probably more to this story than we know.

richmond has one purpose - make money - they don't see insteon as anything but a tool to be used to make money - i'm not condemning that 

i am wondering if richmond brought in that new ceo or if the ceo brought in richmond for the cash infusion

https://www.cepro.com/news/insteon_smartlabs_acquired_ceo_powerline_home_automation_richmond_capital/

they are on the esg train

What We Believe

Impact Investing.  We believe that credit analysis is most effective when integrating fundamental quantitative and qualitative credit research with Environmental, Social and Governance analysis.  As a value manager in the investment-grade fixed-income sector, in-depth research allows our talented investment team to make successful long-term investment decisions. for the 'fixed income' investors from their history Our firm is now 100% owned by 14 active investment, client service, and operations professionals. Decades ago, leadership took the firm private, believing they could closely align their interests with those of clients by becoming independent. Our growth and success since then is a direct result of that decision. http://www.richmondcap.com/ new ceo - $7.3 million infused - lights out - interesting

[mwester]

13 minutes ago, mmb said:

Something like this - Insteon on the right and z-wave on the left.  They are driving a mixed automation network.

 

This is way better than attempting to jam them both into the back of the Polisy -- BUT:

 

Both Z-Wave and Insteon RF are in the 900 MHz band, so they are very susceptible to interference from each other.  Even if they are on different "channels" or frequencies, the two radio receivers are subject to "de-sense" or overload from the adjacent USB device's transmitter.

 

You'd be far better off with a 2-meter (6 foot) USB2 extension cable for at least one of them.  Ideally for each of them, and keep the two radios several meters (10+ feet) apart.

 

  This applies to the ISY as well as the Polisy -- my ISY with the embedded z-wave is 10+ feet away from the PLM.  It's in the joists in the basement ceiling, so I also made sure that there's a metal heating duct in the line-of-sight between the PLM and the ISY.