Insteon versus zwave for switches (and what are nice zwave switches?)

[ctviggen1]

I just recently updated my ISY, and came here to learn that Insteon was no more.  (First Logitech remotes are no longer made, then Insteon is gone...bummer.) 

Anyway, I still have a few Insteon switches I have not installed, but I would like to install at least 8-10 more switches.  Are there z-wave switches that are similar? For instance, with LEDs to tell you at what level dimming you are, and the ability to program the brightness of the LEDs?  Any benefits to Zwave over Insteon for light switching? 

Thank  you.

[MrBill]

Check ebay for insteon.  prices for items like 2477D are coming down due to the flooded market, some of the specialty items are still running high tho.

[Techman]

Take a look at this catalog of certified Z-wave devices. Ideally you want the 700 series aka Z-wave V2. I haven't seen any that have leds on the switches that indicate the dim level.  Aeotec and Zooz both have a nice inventory.

If you haven't already, then you should update your ISY Z-wave dongle to the 500 series, assuming that you now have the 300 series.

Catalog of Certified Z-Wave Products for U.S. / Canada / Mexico (z-wavealliance.org)

[MrBill]

honestly if @ctviggen1 just updated the ISY he probably went to a Polisy... nonetheless... I wouldn't spend money upgrading a 994's 300 series controller to a 500 so that you can use 700 series devices, that doesn't make sense at this point in the game. If someone want to start adding z-wave literally every piece should be 700 series.  Save all your upgrade money and buy a Polisy if possible with a 700 series controller board.

[oskrypuch]

4 hours ago, ctviggen1 said:

... Any benefits to Zwave over Insteon for light switching?

Yes. There is available new stock of devices! ?

That is why I'm there. Made the big leap to Polisy + 700 series dongle, and added seven devices at the moment (including a light controller). Happy with them.

* Orest

[lilyoyo1]

19 minutes ago, oskrypuch said:

Yes. There is available new stock of devices! ?

That is why I'm there. Made the big leap to Polisy + 700 series dongle, and added seven devices at the moment (including a light controller). Happy with them.

* Orest

That's the only benefit. Zwave is still the lesser protocol for lighting control

[Bumbershoot]

16 hours ago, Techman said:

I haven't seen any that have leds on the switches that indicate the dim level.

I believe HomeSeer HS-WX300 dimmers/switches have that capability when set in "Normal" mode.  I have an older model that I use in "Status" mode, which makes the onboard LED's vastly more useful than the LED's in Insteon dimmers/switches.

[jec6613]

22 hours ago, ctviggen1 said:

I just recently updated my ISY, and came here to learn that Insteon was no more.  (First Logitech remotes are no longer made, then Insteon is gone...bummer.) 

Anyway, I still have a few Insteon switches I have not installed, but I would like to install at least 8-10 more switches.  Are there z-wave switches that are similar? For instance, with LEDs to tell you at what level dimming you are, and the ability to program the brightness of the LEDs?  Any benefits to Zwave over Insteon for light switching? 

Thank  you.

There's also a Caseta node server, so you can use Lutron Caseta.  Depending on your timeframe, Lutron Sunnata and Lutron Maestro (via RadioRA3/RadioRA2) are also a possibility.  The Maestro are the closest to Insteon I've been able to find in terms of how they function, with Maestro having a better dimmer and more luxurious feel (except for the button click for some reason).

[oskrypuch]

Lutron RA3, and then access to the wide array of lighting controllers (incl. Maestros) is a very tempting scenario -- assuming that the RA3 API will be publicly available.

And, love Maestros!

But, it all keys on an effective and well supported PG3 node. It would be quite a nuisance if you invested heavily in RA3, and then the PG3 node crumped, either by loss of support or a proprietary closing of the RA3 interface. Does an RA3 install require a licensed installer?

I presume that Lutron requires access through the cloud, another potential issue.

* Orest

Edited May 15, 2022 by oskrypuch

[jec6613]

8 minutes ago, oskrypuch said:

Does an RA3 install require a licensed installer?

I presume that Lutron requires access through the cloud, another potential issue.

* Orest

You can take the courses to get access to the RA3 software yourself, much like RA2Select.

RadioRA3 requires cloud for the app, but the API is local for automation systems with no cloud dependency.  RadioRA2 is commonly used with the likes of Crestron and Elan with full offline control (Caseta is too, for that matter).  Provided you're not using the Lutron app for your schedules and primary UI, you'd never know if the cloud went fully offline.

[bpwwer]

9 minutes ago, oskrypuch said:

Lutron RA3, and then access to the wide array of lighting controllers (incl. Maestros) is a very tempting scenario -- assuming that the RA3 API will be publicly available.

RA3 uses the Lutron LEAP protocol which is not publicly available. There are folks working to reverse engineer it.

11 minutes ago, oskrypuch said:

But, it all keys on an effective and well supported PG3 node. It would be quite a nuisance if you invested heavily in RA3, and then the PG3 node crumped, either by loss of support or a proprietary closing of the RA3 interface. Does an RA3 install require a licensed installer?

It really comes down to whether or not Lutron is willing to work with UDI or the reverse engineering efforts can provide a stable working library. 

RA3 does not require a licensed installed to install.  Lutron makes the training classes available to anyone and once take, you are free to buy and install RA3 products.

13 minutes ago, oskrypuch said:

I presume that Lutron requires access through the cloud, another potential issue.

No, the Lutron processes/bridges can communicate over your local network via LEAP (or LIP) protocol.  Their app has cloud dependencies, but node servers would not (at least the current ones for PG2 do not).

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, oskrypuch said:

Lutron RA3, and then access to the wide array of lighting controllers (incl. Maestros) is a very tempting scenario -- assuming that the RA3 API will be publicly available.

And, love Maestros!

But, it all keys on an effective and well supported PG3 node. It would be quite a nuisance if you invested heavily in RA3, and then the PG3 node crumped, either by loss of support or a proprietary closing of the RA3 interface. Does an RA3 install require a licensed installer?

I presume that Lutron requires access through the cloud, another potential issue.

* Orest

Due to lutron's requirements I doubt this will happen unless reversed engineered. Since UDI wants to go the official for with it, they'll have to support it. 

[lilyoyo1]

4 hours ago, jec6613 said:

There's also a Caseta node server, so you can use Lutron Caseta.  Depending on your timeframe, Lutron Sunnata and Lutron Maestro (via RadioRA3/RadioRA2) are also a possibility.  The Maestro are the closest to Insteon I've been able to find in terms of how they function, with Maestro having a better dimmer and more luxurious feel (except for the button click for some reason).

Lutron is standardizing their devices so all will carry the sunnata look. Caseta should be out within the next year. Not sure how that will effect the current Node server

[jec6613]

5 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Lutron is standardizing their devices so all will carry the sunnata look. Caseta should be out within the next year. Not sure how that will effect the current Node server

Citation needed?  But if so that's very cool for my future lighting.

[lilyoyo1]

21 minutes ago, jec6613 said:

Citation needed?  But if so that's very cool for my future lighting.

Citation needed? If you're asking for proof, you'll see in time

[upstatemike]

I like the way Pico remotes match the styling of Caseta switches so they mix well in a multi-gang plate. If Caseta switches to the Sunnata look will there be matching Sunnata Picos as well?