Michel Kohanim Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 Hi @apostolakisl, Unfortunately they refused our bid. With kind regards, Michel
apostolakisl Posted May 27, 2022 Author Posted May 27, 2022 ? Another bidder involved? @Michel Kohanim 1
apostolakisl Posted May 31, 2022 Author Posted May 31, 2022 27 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: Yes. With kind regards, Michel Don't suppose you are at liberty to say. I'm guessing someone with deep pockets. I would obviously prefer UD, but someone is better than no one provided they actually produce the product line and hopefully bring back all the specialty items, that I admit, probably don't make any money, but allow the system to be complete. And in my opinion, a complete system will likely bring in more adopters and thus boost sales of everything.
Albert Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 Hi there! I was wondering if this means the Insteon hub server would then come back online? Is there any hope for that? My entire house is controlled by Insteon devices both inside and out. Many thanks!
Techman Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 35 minutes ago, Albert said: Hi there! I was wondering if this means the Insteon hub server would then come back online? Is there any hope for that? My entire house is controlled by Insteon devices both inside and out. Many thanks! Unfortunately, there's no answer to your question. It really depends on who buys Smartlabs assets and what they end up doing with them. Time will tell.
oskrypuch Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Albert said: Hi there! I was wondering if this means the Insteon hub server would then come back online? Is there any hope for that? My entire house is controlled by Insteon devices both inside and out. Many thanks! In my view, I think it is very unlikely that you will ever see the Insteon hub servers (with required cloud access) in operation again. There are much better ways to control Insteon devices, the issue for you would be getting hold of a PLM. But, for that, there may be solution on the horizon. * Orest 2
apostolakisl Posted June 1, 2022 Author Posted June 1, 2022 Here is to hoping Michel is playing poker with Smartlabs.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Albert said: Hi there! I was wondering if this means the Insteon hub server would then come back online? Is there any hope for that? My entire house is controlled by Insteon devices both inside and out. Many thanks! At this point, I highly doubt anyone would resurrect the insteon servers. Most users would have found a different method to control their devices or moved on by now which makes bringing it online and maintaining it too big of a cost. 2
KRush Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, oskrypuch said: In my view, I think it is very unlikely that you will ever see the Insteon hub servers (with required cloud access) in operation again. There are much better ways to control Insteon devices, the issue for you would be getting hold of a PLM. But, for that, there may be solution on the horizon. * Orest 1 hour ago, oskrypuch said: In my view, I think it is very unlikely that you will ever see the Insteon hub servers (with required cloud access) in operation again. There are much better ways to control Insteon devices, the issue for you would be getting hold of a PLM. But, for that, there may be solution on the horizon. * Orest Hello, I'm new to this web site. I've been reading posts trying to determine what path to follow to control my Insteon devices. There are many posts that refer to "ways to control Inseon devices" but it seems a mystery as what exactly all the paths are and how to compare them. Now the post above alludes to the possibility of there being another solution to the "PLM" on the horizon. Confusing. I wonder if it will be better? Well, if I understand it correctly, the PLM is the device that (PLM = Power Line Modem?) sends the two signals to the devices and I guess thus generates the mesh for the Insteon network? But the Hub in my house must do that too? Sorry for my ignorance. I'm trying to learn, but no one ever seems to explain the workings. I guess everyone thinks it is too obvious to state? Well, if I'm correct, that the HUB in my house generates the two mesh signals, then I guess we just need to be able to program the HUB without using the Insteon Servers. If that is true, then we get back to all the many ways to do that and what they are and how to compare them. Have I stated the problem correctly? Thank you for reading.
apostolakisl Posted June 1, 2022 Author Posted June 1, 2022 31 minutes ago, KRush said: Hello, I'm new to this web site. I've been reading posts trying to determine what path to follow to control my Insteon devices. There are many posts that refer to "ways to control Inseon devices" but it seems a mystery as what exactly all the paths are and how to compare them. Now the post above alludes to the possibility of there being another solution to the "PLM" on the horizon. Confusing. I wonder if it will be better? Well, if I understand it correctly, the PLM is the device that (PLM = Power Line Modem?) sends the two signals to the devices and I guess thus generates the mesh for the Insteon network? But the Hub in my house must do that too? Sorry for my ignorance. I'm trying to learn, but no one ever seems to explain the workings. I guess everyone thinks it is too obvious to state? Well, if I'm correct, that the HUB in my house generates the two mesh signals, then I guess we just need to be able to program the HUB without using the Insteon Servers. If that is true, then we get back to all the many ways to do that and what they are and how to compare them. Have I stated the problem correctly? Thank you for reading. No, the PLM does not create a mesh. Every Insteon device does that on its own. The PLM, simply put, allows for a third party device (ISY) to become part of that mesh. The PLM can be thought of as a keypad linc with 1000 buttons on it that ISY can "push" to control scenes/devices. And just like any other Insteon device, it hears all the communication on the network and whatever the PLM "hears", so does ISY. As you add devices and scenes to your ISY, you are writing links to the PLM and to the other devices linking them together.
MrBill Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, KRush said: Hello, I'm new to this web site. I've been reading posts trying to determine what path to follow to control my Insteon devices. There are many posts that refer to "ways to control Inseon devices" but it seems a mystery as what exactly all the paths are and how to compare them. Now the post above alludes to the possibility of there being another solution to the "PLM" on the horizon. Confusing. I wonder if it will be better? Well, if I understand it correctly, the PLM is the device that (PLM = Power Line Modem?) sends the two signals to the devices and I guess thus generates the mesh for the Insteon network? But the Hub in my house must do that too? Sorry for my ignorance. I'm trying to learn, but no one ever seems to explain the workings. I guess everyone thinks it is too obvious to state? Well, if I'm correct, that the HUB in my house generates the two mesh signals, then I guess we just need to be able to program the HUB without using the Insteon Servers. If that is true, then we get back to all the many ways to do that and what they are and how to compare them. Have I stated the problem correctly? Thank you for reading. My son's house has about 50 devices that were using the Insteon Hub. For his house we went with Home Assistant which directly uses the hub. it was pretty easy to get his system back in business. You might want to visit the Smarthome section of the forum as well, there are a lot of threads discussing options. 2
oskrypuch Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 (edited) @KRushThe PLM functioning was just explained upthread. The "solution" (and problem) that I was referring to.... First, the problem ... PLMs are kind of the weak link currently with Insteon, as they tend to fail (especially older design ones), and of course, now, no new ones are being manufactured. Some time ago UDI developed a PLM Pro device, that sidestepped the issues of the SmartHome original 2413/12 family of PLMs. Unfortunately UDI was denied access to the proprietary chips from SH, so they could not manufacture them. There is a chance that the chips might become available, or at least the chip's IP, if so UDI could potentially produce a PLM Pro. The much better ways to control your Insteon devices is with a Polisy box (or its prior cousin the ISY 994), but these both require a PLM for Insteon. However, these devices can control much more using something called PolyGlot, and with the addition of Z-Wave boards to the devices. More funny acronyms! PolyGlot is a framework bridge that lets the UDI devices communicate with a very diverse range of devices, networks and software. PolyGlot is hosted and included in the Polisy box, easy to set up and use. But, for the geeks, it could be hosted in any simple Linux box as well, like a Raspberry Pi device. Z-Wave is an alternative family for home automation, that is completely radio frequency. Some are looking to it now, to complement their Insteon setups, and allow for future functional expansion, as new Insteon devices are unlikely to be produced. * Orest Edited June 1, 2022 by oskrypuch 1
KHouse Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 3 hours ago, oskrypuch said: In my view, I think it is very unlikely that you will ever see the Insteon hub servers (with required cloud access) in operation again. There are much better ways to control Insteon devices, the issue for you would be getting hold of a PLM. But, for that, there may be solution on the horizon. * Orest Orest - are you able to add some context/explanation to the solution that might be on the horizon?
oskrypuch Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 (edited) Yes, see my immediately preceeding post! * Orest Edited June 1, 2022 by oskrypuch 1
KHouse Posted June 3, 2022 Posted June 3, 2022 On 6/1/2022 at 4:45 PM, oskrypuch said: Yes, see my immediately preceeding post! * Orest Thanks.
Albert Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 On 6/1/2022 at 2:10 PM, lilyoyo1 said: At this point, I highly doubt anyone would resurrect the insteon servers. Most users would have found a different method to control their devices or moved on by now which makes bringing it online and maintaining it too big of a cost. Thank you so much for the intel. I was able to get Home Assistant working, and now the Apple Home app, and can see most of my devices but missing a few. I also am wondering how to adjust my scenes and timers. Any advice? Sorry. Not the most tech savvy but willing to try. HA! Many thanks!
lilyoyo1 Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Albert said: Thank you so much for the intel. I was able to get Home Assistant working, and now the Apple Home app, and can see most of my devices but missing a few. I also am wondering how to adjust my scenes and timers. Any advice? Sorry. Not the most tech savvy but willing to try. HA! Many thanks! I don't use HA..you could try on their forum
Albert Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 34 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: I don't use HA..you could try on their forum Is there a device you recommend buying that will give me control over the devices and scenes? Thank you again!
Brian H Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 Doesn't Home Assistant through your HUB or PLM if you can find one.. Allow you do do what you are looking for?
Albert Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Brian H said: Doesn't Home Assistant through your HUB or PLM if you can find one.. Allow you do do what you are looking for? It doesn’t seem to show me the scenes or schedules. Thanks!
lilyoyo1 Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 39 minutes ago, Albert said: Is there a device you recommend buying that will give me control over the devices and scenes? Thank you again! id check their forum. There are many people using HA with the hub so they would be better positioned to assist you.
MrBill Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Albert said: It doesn’t seem to show me the scenes or schedules. Thanks! if you have schedules in the insteon App i think you need to factory reset your hub, then re-add your devices. that's how it had to be done originally but HA did release more insteon tools with the may release, I'm not sure of that included a method to delete the schedules from the hub. (look in the left Home Assistant menu for Insteon).
RPerrault Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 as i understand it one of the functions a plm performs is to insert data on the power line - the data being binary, so a 0 or a 1 - it does this by inserting the data bit on the electrical sine wave when it crosses the x axis - nothing new about that, others have done it - that topology is not a mesh - its more of a star topology since the data travels to your electrical breaker box to access devices on another circuit of the same leg - to traverse to devices on a different leg, i think the data travels to the transformer servicing your house and reenters on the other leg - and through all the homes services by that transformer - hence, the bridging devices needed for all the early insteon devices that did not support rf communication - some of us bitter old timers recall the lies smarthome led us to believe that plm function, inserting data and monitoring the electrical sine wave, is something all insteon devices do - except battery operated devices i suppose - the specs for insteon allow for other devices to repeat the signal, but a provision is made to keep the repeating from continuing for 12 years (hop counts) - i am unsure if there is a provision in the insteon specs for collision detection and recovery (like the first ethernet specs) - my guess is that insteon has no routing function so every command sent on the powerline is a broadcast - all devices see it and only act on the data if it is addressed to them (0a:34:23 or whatever) insteon also sends data via rf - that topology can be called a mesh - my question was 'if a device receives a command via rf, does it repeat that command via both rf and powerline?' - i suspect the answer is yes - because no one talks phase couplers since the disreputable smarthome began to implement both rf and powerline devices (like they lied to us by omission years ago) - if so, the plm function of inserting data on the powerline becomes moot - only a rf communication is needed to get the controlled broadcast storm started on the 'network' another function of the plm seems to be - in order to have a controller - a link is established between the plm and each insteon device - since the insteon hub moved the plm functions into either the hub or the cloud, a plm can be eliminated and its functions handled by a controller - my guess is that the disreputable smarthome group placed setup and control functions issued bythe hub into the cloud - insteon will function without a controller or hub but automated stuff like timers and programmatic functions need the controller - that needs to issue commands to insteon devices - the with the built in rf and/or powerline communications capability function done by the hub (not the cloud) not sure about unix, but the rules of multitasking operating systems prohibit direct input/output by a program - programs issue an i/o request to the operating system and the operating system returns the results to the program - an i/o request can be for data that resides on a 'hard drive' or a print request or whatever - the operating system controls a variety of devices on behalf of itself and programs - a program can construct a record to be written to the hard drive, but it passes that data and request to the operating system the operating system has hardware and 'drivers' for the devices it communicates with the 'links table' (i am told) are in the plm - nothing magical there - the isy has its own list of links - the insteon commands and packet structures are published - we need a device and driver for the operating system to issue the packets to the devices - either on the power line (doable - others have done it) or rf (broadcast/receive also doable) but doing all that does not get over the legal hurdle
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