insteon replacement for international users

[eduardo_garcia]

Hello guys

It is been a long time since  the last time i posted here. I just got the news that insteon is out of business,  and I need to start plan to replace the the units that may fail in the future.  I'm from overseas and I picked up insteon because it was easy to buy from smarthome , ISY support is fantastic and insteon supports 220V power source.

I can change the power grip here to 110V, but it is expensive. I need to rebuild all electrical instalation at my house. So, my main question is? there is any other smart switch in the market that supports 220V? If the answer is no, what is the best option to to replace insteon?

thanks

Eduardo 

[Geddy]

@eduardo_garcia Yeah, it's been hard news to handle with the loss of Insteon devices. But, it's been a topic of discussion for a while.

As for replacements there's been a lot of discussions in this area (since the official shutting down of Insteon) as well as in the Coffee Shop area of the forums. Since you're international the best bet would be to find a local automation professional and discuss options. 

The overall feeling is that nothing has had the success and reliability that Insteon has over the years (for most people). There's no one fix solution for what to attempt next (without going a more professional/high cost route...at least for US/Canada based options). 

Depending on how old existing devices are their longevity seems to work for most people, but everybody is different. 

 

[MrBill]

@eduardo_garcia I've noticed in other automation forums that https://shelly.cloud/ devices are popular in Europe.   They are relays/dimmers that go behind a standard switch. the standard switch can still be used.  they have a built in webserver and some basic logic (like schedules) built right into the device.

I've installed a few of the non-dimming version in my son's house since the demise of Insteon and it is a pretty neat device.  The caveat is that it's wifi, so it's important to have modern wifi and router.  (some of the older routers on this side of the pond have limited sized Routing tables or DHCP tables, such a device wouldn't eat measurable bandwidth, but it's important to have a router than supports many devices.)

[eduardo_garcia]

Thanks for all the answers. Im my country we use FCC standards, so I use the US version of insteon. The only difference is that we use 220V@60Hz, instead of 110V like in US. However, I do have the neutral line, I can convert all light circuitry to 110V. Im an electrical engineer, I have done all insteon setup here (+80 devices installed).  Insteon provided an excellent support on how to use the current PLM on a 220V power grid, it works perfectly.

I do have  a few spare keypads/switches here, I think I can manage it for a few years. My main concern is the PLM, I have 1 new and one refurbished (I personally replaced all capacitors on on a failed unit, it worked very well). I tested several options before choosing insteon, it was by far the best option in the market. It is a shame that is another victim of this pandemic. 

[stillwater]

Just to be clear, Insteon was not a victim of the pandemic.  Its managers were running it into the ground long before the pandemic.  

[Geddy]

Glad you've got the experience to work on the devices yourself. Having a working PLM and a spare is helpful. I think you'll be able to use your system for a long time to come. 

Sadly, I don't think the pandemic directly played into the loss of Insteon, as many have speculated the writing was on the wall a while before Covid happened. It's just the nature of some businesses that fail for various reasons. But, that's been a topic beaten far too long in other places to be brought back up here. 

Currently, my system is working. Like you, I have a few spare devices and a spare PLM. I'm not looking for anything to change to at the moment, but have certainly started that extra "rainy day fund" for if/when an automation change is needed. I'd rather save up the funds now and then explore the options available at the time something is required to change. Ultimately, going back to the "dark ages" of manually turning lights on and off is a simple stop-gap measure if it ever comes to that. However, I suspect that I'll be in a different house before my current system fails.

 

[MrBill]

49 minutes ago, eduardo_garcia said:

My main concern is the PLM, I have 1 new and one refurbished (I personally replaced all capacitors on on a failed unit, it worked very well).

if you can change capacitors you're probably good to go for a long time to come. 

PLM's on ebay are currently selling at a premium price, but one say that bubble will burst and PLM's won't be premium price anymore.  Again if you can replace the weak link, the capacitors, you are likely good to go for many years to come.

[apostolakisl]

I would say leave it alone.  If you have the second gen dual band Insteon devices, they tend to last.  And if you put high quality caps in your PLM, it is probably good for a long time as well.  Might keep your eyes open for any good deals on used stuff as spares.  But I am leaving my system alone, I have plenty of spares.  Plus, I suspect someone will buy the Insteon technology sometime in the not too distant future and continue the product line.

[Brian H]

The PLM is 120VAC 60CY only. Are you using the neutral and one of the hot wires or a 220 to 120 adapter.

The only other PLM problem I have seen mentioned by the now gone Smarthome. Was some serial port interface chips where being damaged. I know at V2.3 a more static tolerant chip was used and at 2.4 they added a protective network on the two serial port signals to the outside world.

[apostolakisl]

51 minutes ago, Brian H said:

The PLM is 120VAC 60CY only. Are you using the neutral and one of the hot wires or a 220 to 120 adapter.

The only other PLM problem I have seen mentioned by the now gone Smarthome. Was some serial port interface chips where being damaged. I know at V2.3 a more static tolerant chip was used and at 2.4 they added a protective network on the two serial port signals to the outside world.

Not sure where the OP is, but in Europe at least, the 240v is single phase, not split phase.  Interestingly, I just learned that in Europe on construction sites they do split phase 110v (two 180 degree legs of 55v).  The 55v is generally too little voltage to get through skin and thus lowers risk of electrocution/injury at wet outdoor work sites.  But it means they need 110v tools even though they won't work without the special work-site transformer.

So anyway, it would seem to be that he needs a 240v to 120v transformer and would presumably then rely on radio for the PLM to work.  I doubt the PLC works through a transformer.

[lilyoyo1]

31 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

Not sure where the OP is, but in Europe at least, the 240v is single phase, not split phase.  Interestingly, I just learned that in Europe on construction sites they do split phase 110v (two 180 degree legs of 55v).  The 55v is generally too little voltage to get through skin and thus lowers risk of electrocution/injury at wet outdoor work sites.  But it means they need 110v tools even though they won't work without the special work-site transformer.

So anyway, it would seem to be that he needs a 240v to 120v transformer and would presumably then rely on radio for the PLM to work.  I doubt the PLC works through a transformer.

Judging by the name, I'd say S. America. With the additional details in regards to insteon help, possibly Brazil

[eduardo_garcia]

Hi guys

Im curious, how did lilyoyo1 found out my nationality based on the insteon support comment? Anyways, I normally do not disclose my nationality on International forums.  Sometimes latin american people are not welcome.

Here I have a 3 phase powerline (3 120 degree legs of 110v) with neutral line. It means I have 110 v on neutral to phase and 220V from phase to phase.  Home appliances here are all 220v, people only uses 220V config. Since I designed my house from scratch,  I used 110V on my home theather room (all good receivers are 110V only) and I installed my PLM and several insteon devices on this room, very close to insteon units on a 220V circuit. It was enough to propagate insteon signal from the 110V room to the remaining units on 220V circuits by radio. It works perfectly for me.  Of course I need to always use the same legs as line and neutral on the 220V insteon units.

It seems that insteon as sold. I hope the new management will allow Michael to produce PLMs.  Universal devices and Michel Kohanim really rocks!

[gages97]

@eduardo_garcia In the US - 220v for residential is single phase, only commercial buildings/installations have the option for 3 phase.  Where you are you have actual 3 phase power? so 3 hots w/ 120 degrees separation??

 

I did do a 110v install in a bldg that had 3 phase power (using Insteon Hub not ISY w/ PLM).  Things worked best when hub and device were on the same phase.

Edited June 10, 2022 by gages97

[eduardo_garcia]

@gages97 Yes, I have a 3phase power, 3 hots with 120 degrees of separation + neutral.  All old houses have 220V single phase, but new constructions have 3 phase power. Is is a tentative to move all population to use 120V, but most o the home appliances that are sold here are 220V. So, even with 120V available, people keeps using 220V.

All insteon devices should be on the sme "hot wire"pair or the same hot + neutral pair, otherwise you will need a insteon phase coupler. 

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, eduardo_garcia said:

@gages97 Yes, I have a 3phase power, 3 hots with 120 degrees of separation + neutral.  All old houses have 220V single phase, but new constructions have 3 phase power. Is is a tentative to move all population to use 120V, but most o the home appliances that are sold here are 220V. So, even with 120V available, people keeps using 220V.

All insteon devices should be on the sme "hot wire"pair or the same hot + neutral pair, otherwise you will need a insteon phase coupler. 

In my area, it is common for multi-unit apartment buildings and offices to feed two of the three phases to each unit We call this network service. It works well to save some copper or aluminum conductor quantity in compact densities. Cheaper residential meters don't work properly due to the 120 degree difference between phases. The 1.5 element meters expect 180 degree phase shift between phases (legs) to meter accurately.

However, the biggest problem is the compromise at 125v / 216v gives high voltage for 120v light bulbs. incandescent bulbs don't last very long with higher voltage of 125 volts and heating style appliances, like water heater can only produce about 75% of their rated heat, at 216 volts instead of their rated 240 volt supply.

Note: we never had 110 /115/ 117 / 220 / 225 or 230 volt supplies. Some appliances were nominally rated at these voltages intending to compensate for perceived voltage loss in supply systems. Supplies have always been 120 / 240 volt by design.

[apostolakisl]

sounds like you have 3 phase 120/208 which is very common in the US for light commercial.  In other words, connect any of the 3 hots to neutral and you get 120v, cross any two hots and you get 208.  Anyway, this power source is 100% compatible with USA rated items, assuming 60hz.  Both my office and my church have this power configuration and I have Insteon at both locations.  Most of the power is 120v, but we also have 3 phase AC units and single phase 208 to water heaters and such.