MatterZ? ZMatter?

[Venicenerd]

5 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

???

If you're supporting matter devices then you're a hub. If you're being supported then youre a device. 

Ok I see where my confusion is now. I have interchanged the terms hub and device here. So yes, the Eisy seems to be a hub (it can make use of matter devices such as plugs, bulbs, etc…) so what I’d like to know if if the Eisy itself can present itself as a device. Like the Philips Hue hub will present itself as a device once it supports matter. 

[brians]

2 hours ago, Venicenerd said:

Ok I see where my confusion is now. I have interchanged the terms hub and device here. So yes, the Eisy seems to be a hub (it can make use of matter devices such as plugs, bulbs, etc…) so what I’d like to know if if the Eisy itself can present itself as a device. Like the Philips Hue hub will present itself as a device once it supports matter. 

Are you asking if the eisy will allow older non-matter devices to present themselves as matter devices to other systems eg.  homekit be able to see them ? 

Edited September 11, 2022 by brians

[asbril]

2 hours ago, Venicenerd said:

Ok I see where my confusion is now. I have interchanged the terms hub and device here. So yes, the Eisy seems to be a hub (it can make use of matter devices such as plugs, bulbs, etc…) so what I’d like to know if if the Eisy itself can present itself as a device. Like the Philips Hue hub will present itself as a device once it supports matter. 

What is the purpose that you are looking for ?

[Venicenerd]

8 minutes ago, asbril said:

What is the purpose that you are looking for ?

I would like to be able to natively bring over all of my Insteon devices from the Eisy to Homekit/Homeassitant/etc via matter. 

[lilyoyo1]

18 minutes ago, Venicenerd said:

I would like to be able to natively bring over all of my Insteon devices from the Eisy to Homekit/Homeassitant/etc via matter. 

If everything works the way they claim matter will work then yes you can accomplish what you're looking for. However, apple is the dark horse in all of this since they haven't been clear on their matter plans outside of adding support for it in iOS. 

Everyone knows Apple always comes with stipulations and with them being quiet - noone can speak on what can  be done with something that someone else controls. 

UDI has added matter compatibility but there are still many variables involved that they won't have control or knowledge over until Matter is actually released. 

[asbril]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

If everything works the way they claim matter will work then yes you can accomplish what you're looking for. However, apple is the dark horse in all of this since they haven't been clear on their matter plans outside of adding support for it in iOS. 

Everyone knows Apple always comes with stipulations and with them being quiet - noone can speak on what can  be done with something that someone else controls. 

UDI has added matter compatibility but there are still many variables involved that they won't have control or knowledge over until Matter is actually released. 

I now understand your question whether ISY/Polisy/Eisy can work as a device rather than only as a hub.

Practically always @lilyoyo1knows better than me, but I question whether Eisy / Matter would work that way with Homekit, unless (and I don't know) Homekit has the equivalent to the ISY Integration of Home Assistant.

As I understand your question, it is not really a question of Matter, but whether today you can control anything that is in ISY or Insteon directly. Insteon is not (currently and doubtful anytime soon) compatble with Matter. If today Homekit can control ISY, then it should be able to do the same with Eisy. If not working today, then Matter and/or Eisy should not make a difference.

[Bumbershoot]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Everyone knows Apple always comes with stipulations and with them being quiet - noone can speak on what can  be done with something that someone else controls. 

One thing that we do know is that Apple has two devices that are Thread enabled that will act as boarder routers in a Matter network: HomePod and Apple TV 4K v.2.  If nothing else, it signals their intention to play along in this space.

[Venicenerd]

35 minutes ago, asbril said:

I now understand your question whether ISY/Polisy/Eisy can work as a device rather than only as a hub.

Practically always @lilyoyo1knows better than me, but I question whether Eisy / Matter would work that way with Homekit, unless (and I don't know) Homekit has the equivalent to the ISY Integration of Home Assistant.

As I understand your question, it is not really a question of Matter, but whether today you can control anything that is in ISY or Insteon directly. Insteon is not (currently and doubtful anytime soon) compatble with Matter. If today Homekit can control ISY, then it should be able to do the same with Eisy. If not working today, then Matter and/or Eisy should not make a difference.

Well I figure if an Insteon device is in the Eisy there could be some sort of matter bridge that lets you choose which devices to bridge over to matter. Kind of like HomeAssistant has a HomeKit Bridge which lets you choose which devices to bridge over. I know UD was always hesitant to build something specifically for HomeKit due to licensing concerns but that should no longer be the case with matter. I just don’t know if they would consider something like this.
 

 

13 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

One thing that we do know is that Apple has two devices that are Thread enabled that will act as boarder routers in a Matter network: HomePod and Apple TV 4K v.2.  If nothing else, it signals their intention to play along in this space.

I am pretty convinced that apple will be a full partner of the matter protocol.  They had a big part in creating it and it will be fully supported with iOS 16 later this fall. 

[asbril]

28 minutes ago, Venicenerd said:

Well I figure if an Insteon device is in the Eisy there could be some sort of matter bridge that lets you choose which devices to bridge over to matter. Kind of like HomeAssistant has a HomeKit Bridge which lets you choose which devices to bridge over. I know UD was always hesitant to build something specifically for HomeKit due to licensing concerns but that should no longer be the case with matter. I just don’t know if they would consider something like this.
 

 

I am pretty convinced that apple will be a full partner of the matter protocol.  They had a big part in creating it and it will be fully supported with iOS 16 later this fall. 

I still question whether any of this would allow Homekit to control Insteon, directly or through ISY/Polisy/Eisy. The way I understand the Matter integration with Eisy is that the latter can access and control any Matter compatible device, but I am not sure(I just don't know...)  that Homekit would be able to control any (Non-Matter)  device connected to Eisy, unless, as you suggest, UD creates a Homekit bridge that works 2-way.

Edited September 11, 2022 by asbril

[lilyoyo1]

34 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

One thing that we do know is that Apple has two devices that are Thread enabled that will act as boarder routers in a Matter network: HomePod and Apple TV 4K v.2.  If nothing else, it signals their intention to play along in this space.

That's why I mentioned they added support. They just haven't been clear on alit of things being saying they'll support it in regards to Matter and homekit compatibility and the level of integration. 

Them adding it is a great thing but what needs clarification from them is how deep is the integration with homekit will Matter devices have

[lilyoyo1]

15 minutes ago, asbril said:

I still question whether any of this would allow Homekit to control Insteon, directly or through ISY/Polisy/Eisy. The way I understand the Matter integration with Eisy is that the latter can access and control any Matter compatible device, but I am not sure(I just don't know...)  that Homekit would be able to control any (Non-Matter)  device connected to Eisy, unless, as I suggest, UD creates a Homekit bridge that works 2-way.

This is the big question. Some has remained quiet on the subject of Matter and homekit integration. If they follow the protocol properly then yes, fill integration would be possible. However, Apple being Apple; may have some stipulations/limitations

[Venicenerd]

5 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

This is the big question. Some has remained quiet on the subject of Matter and homekit integration. If they follow the protocol properly then yes, fill integration would be possible. However, Apple being Apple; may have some stipulations/limitations

Apple has stated that any matter compatible device will natively be supported by HomeKit. I know apple often do their own thing but when they commit to playing along they usually do. I’m not concerned about Apple pulling a fast one on Matter support. I’m just wondering if UD would be interested to build us a matter bridge to translate Insteon devices to matter. 

[asbril]

6 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

This is the big question. Some has remained quiet on the subject of Matter and homekit integration. If they follow the protocol properly then yes, fill integration would be possible. However, Apple being Apple; may have some stipulations/limitations

I incorrectly wrote that  "I" suggest that UD creates a Homekit bridge. It was @Venicenerd. Personally I am not using Homekit and I am not a fan of Siri, even if I have an Iphone and several Ipads.

[Venicenerd]

11 minutes ago, asbril said:

I incorrectly wrote that  "I" suggest that UD creates a Homekit bridge. It was @Venicenerd. Personally I am not using Homekit and I am not a fan of Siri, even if I have an Iphone and several Ipads.

The beauty about a matter bridge would be that you could use it to integrate with HomeKit OR Alexa OR Google OR even Home Assistant. Or all at the same time. It just opens up so many possibilities. 

[lilyoyo1]

43 minutes ago, Venicenerd said:

Apple has stated that any matter compatible device will natively be supported by HomeKit. I know apple often do their own thing but when they commit to playing along they usually do. I’m not concerned about Apple pulling a fast one on Matter support. I’m just wondering if UD would be interested to build us a matter bridge to translate Insteon devices to matter. 

I highly doubt they will unless apple changes requirements. They've repeatedly stated that the costs and requirements are too much. 

If apple supports matter in an open manner like everyone else (Google and Amazon), then it won't be an issue. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[asbril]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I highly doubt they will unless some changes requirements. They've repeatedly stated that the costs and requirements are too much. 

If apple supports matter in an open manner like everyone else (Google and Amazon), then it won't be an issue. 

I personally find the combination of ISY/Polisy  and Home Assistant very efficient.  ISY/Polisy is my reliable "core" and HA is a useful complement. There are few HA Integrations for which there is no ISY/Polisy Node server, such as Nest.

Edited September 11, 2022 by asbril

[Michel Kohanim]

To answer some of the questions:

1. Exporting devices via eisy into HomeKit should be supported BUT it's never done before. As a matter of fact, SiLabs Matter firmware (the one we are going to use) is still such a state of flux that it would be unwise for us to have it in production. What we are going to do instead is to use their Zigbee firmware and then upgrade it the firmware once Matter is ready. We have tested Zigbee with a device and the range is fantastic

2. You can still use something like HomeBridge and export all ISY devices (including Z-Wave) into HomeKit. The issue is that this solution is not official and not Apple Certified (not tied to a hardware and their security coprocessor). We might just go this route.

With kind regards,
Michel

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello all, we should start taking preorders by the end of the week. For now, enjoy the beautiful scenery!

Internal - The first board from the left 

External - The two antennas on the sides: left (yellow ring) = Z-Wave, right (red ring) = Zigbee. Back = Wifi.

With kind regards,
Michel

[TriLife]

14 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Hello all, we should start taking preorders by the end of the week. For now, enjoy the beautiful scenery!

Internal - The first board from the left 

External - The two antennas on the sides: left (yellow ring) = Z-Wave, right (red ring) = Zigbee. Back = Wifi.

With kind regards,
Michel

Woohoo! Send me my invoice already @Michel Kohanim

[upstatemike]

I purchased my Polisy with no wireless boards. To upgrade it do I need the Matter board plus the Wi-Fi board? I use ethernet so is there anything that Wi-Fi will add for me? Some Matter edge router protocol translation magic something?

[asbril]

1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Hello all, we should start taking preorders by the end of the week. For now, enjoy the beautiful scenery!

Internal - The first board from the left 

External - The two antennas on the sides: left (yellow ring) = Z-Wave, right (red ring) = Zigbee. Back = Wifi.

With kind regards,
Michel

Do I need to come to California and wait  overnight in a sleeping bag outside your office ?

[roberthleeii]

55 minutes ago, TriLife said:

Woohoo! Send me my invoice already @Michel Kohanim

Ok.... any upgrade specials to the eisy? I just upgraded my isy to a polisy ~3 months ago. 

[roberthleeii]

56 minutes ago, TriLife said:

Woohoo! Send me my invoice already @Michel Kohanim

 

1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Hello all, we should start taking preorders by the end of the week. For now, enjoy the beautiful scenery!

Internal - The first board from the left 

External - The two antennas on the sides: left (yellow ring) = Z-Wave, right (red ring) = Zigbee. Back = Wifi.

With kind regards,
Michel

Ok.... any upgrade specials to the eisy? I just upgraded my isy to a polisy ~3 months ago. 

[asbril]

1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said:

To answer some of the questions:

1. Exporting devices via eisy into HomeKit should be supported BUT it's never done before. As a matter of fact, SiLabs Matter firmware (the one we are going to use) is still such a state of flux that it would be unwise for us to have it in production. What we are going to do instead is to use their Zigbee firmware and then upgrade it the firmware once Matter is ready. We have tested Zigbee with a device and the range is fantastic

2. You can still use something like HomeBridge and export all ISY devices (including Z-Wave) into HomeKit. The issue is that this solution is not official and not Apple Certified (not tied to a hardware and their security coprocessor). We might just go this route.

With kind regards,
Michel

Apparently I was wrong (not the first time and likely not the last time).

[lilyoyo1]

8 hours ago, asbril said:

Apparently I was wrong (not the first time and likely not the last time).

It's not you being wrong. It's Apple refusing to open up homekit and play nice. Home ridge (or any bridge for that matter) would be moot if Apple opened up everything to Matter the way it was supposed to be