Admin Console failing with "Unable to launch the application" on Mac

[CPeterson]

On Mac, I had been using the ISY994i Admin Console for years, including a few months ago.  The one I have is dated August 27, 2015.  The ISY994 Dashboard is dated November 25, 2017.  I cannot update the console via the webpage sometimes discussed because that fails too in a similar way (described further below).

Both the console and the dashboard fail with "Unable to Launch Application."  It doesn't help to use "Open" to open the application.  The Details page shows "illegal URL redirect" at top of traceback list.

The Java Preferences do not seem to be useful.  The "About" says I have version 8 Update 331 (1.8.0_331-b09) which is from this year (but current???).  When I go to the Java Update tab, I see a rotating circle that just rotates forever.  Reading about Java on the Java website (never a pleasant experience) it appears that this is the only way to "Update Java. " And it is "stuck" apparently, either that or I do have the latest version, I can't tell.

I went to the page to re-download the ISY Administrative Console.  I click on the link https://isy.universal-devices.com/start.jnlp and it downloads.  I click on the file and it says "start.jnlp cannot be opened because it is from an unidentified developer".  I tried both clearing the cache and adding https://forum.universal-devices.com to the Java Exception site list and neither helped.

[Bumbershoot]

10 hours ago, CPeterson said:

I click on the file and it says "start.jnlp cannot be opened because it is from an unidentified developer".

I'm doing this from memory as I'm not at home, so I might get this a little bit wrong.  Open System Preferences, click on the Privacy & Security tab, and select "App store and unidentified developers", and start.jnlp will run.

[Hoosier Daddy]

11 hours ago, CPeterson said:

I click on the file and it says "start.jnlp cannot be opened because it is from an unidentified developer"

Mac OS default is to disallow installs from anywhere except signed apps the Mac App Store. As Bumbershoot says, go to System Preferences > Privacy & Security > General. At the bottom of that window you will see 'Allow apps downloaded from:' and a note something along the lines that Java was blocked from loading (because it's not signed and from the App Store). Click on the padlock to allow changes to this setting. Enter your login info, and then you'll be able to override and install.

My Java version is up to date at Java 8 Update 341.

My only gripe with ISY console is the need to use Java. Have you cleared your Java cache before downloading the .jnlp again?

Edited August 26, 2022 by Hoosier Daddy
added Java info

[Dub]

@Bumbershootand @Hoosier Daddyare right on. 

18 hours ago, CPeterson said:

I tried both clearing the cache and adding https://forum.universal-devices.com to the Java Exception site list and neither helped.

Adding https://forum.universal-devices.com won't help unfortunately, but you could try adding the IP address of your ISY device.

Edit: Info added, nothing above changed.   I went back reread your post.  Adding the IP address will not help at this point, until you can run the Start.JNLP.  Making the change suggested above(in the (Security and Privacy Settings) should help. 

Here is a screenshot of the Setting mentioned above.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Dub
Edit Correction on Java site exception list.

[CPeterson]

Thanks!  It works now but I'm still worried that my Java is out of date, and also that my ISY is out of date, and I'm unable to update either one.

I already did have the "App Store and identified developers" box marked.  When I open up the General tab in the Security and Privacy preferences page, that particular section of the page is greyed out, but I can see that the "App store and identified developers" box IS checked.  There is no box for "unidentified developers" btw.

But it does seem to make a difference if I click the lock to open the General tab, enter my password, and THEN run Start.jnlp (actually it's Start (2).jnlp because I have two previous versions).

I'm then told that my Java is out of date.  The first time I got to this dialog, it said my Java was out of date.  So I clicked on Update in this dialog and then it just crashed.

I started over again and this time I did not select the "update" option but instead the "run" option.  That brings up the ISY Finder.   I click on the first line and a pop up menu appears giving me a choice of running the Administrative Console and something else.  I choose the Administrative Console and I'm up and running again.

Now when I go back to Start (2).jlnp and run it again, it no longer complains about my Java being out of date, it skips that part, so I can't try it again.  It brings me to the page about trusting this developer and I click Run and it runs.  So I'm worried that my Java is still not updated and that could cause problems if I try to upgrade ISY

When I try to "Manually Update" ISY, it asks me to select a file.  Where do I get this file and will it be compatible with my "old" Java (Version 8 Update 331) on my Mac or do I need to remove and reinstall Java to get a later Java version on my Mac first and how do I do that?  (As I said in original message, If I try to update Java through the Mac's Java Preferences page, the circle just spins forever.  Apparently if I need a newer Java I will have to remove the old one and reinstall the new one and I haven't found out how to do that reading the Java website.)

[Dub]

3 hours ago, CPeterson said:

Now when I go back to Start (2).jlnp and run it again, it no longer complains about my Java being out of date,

Can you check your Java version again?  I wonder if it actually updated when you saw the rotating circle.  I have updated Java once on my Mac since getting my Polisy.  I have gotten the rotating circle a few times with Java, but not frequently and I don't remember any issues with upgrading.  

 

3 hours ago, CPeterson said:

Now when I go back to Start (2).jlnp and run it again, it no longer complains about my Java being out of date, it skips that part, so I can't try it again.  It brings me to the page about trusting this developer and I click Run and it runs.  So I'm worried that my Java is still not updated and that could cause problems if I try to upgrade ISY

I was launching my Admin Console every time with the Start.jnlp until working with Geddy a little bit and getting a better understanding.  You Should have an icon on your desktop now "ISY Launcher", if it works the same as it does with Polisy.  This is how I launch now and should be faster.

There are some ways to remove Java, but I don't think you need to try that until you verify again what version of Java you are on, just in case it has been upgraded in the background of the other issues.

Since Im not a long term UDI/ISY user, I would be hesitant upgrading the ISY until the Java issue is resolved and updated. I would think you want to be on the latest version of Java first.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

CPeterson,

what is your Mac OS version?

what is your Java version?

Regarding start.jnlp, you download that (after clearing your java cached applications and applets) and only run it once to put the "ISY Launcher" alias on your desktop. You then delete start.jnlp and use the "ISY Launcher" every time you need to get into the Admin Console. Of course ISY Launcher is sort of misnamed because it actually opens the ISY Finder. You then use the ISY Finder to launch the Admin Console on whatever UDI box is on your LAN (994 or Polisy, no difference).

I'm sure that the following is not technically correct but, FWIW, I think about this process being like downloading an app installer (start.jnlp) and then running this installer which is what installs the app you want (ISY Launcher). Having the ISY Launcher (the app) sitting on your desktop is the end goal in this process. You always delete the installer.

Delete your "start.jnlp"s. Clear the java cache (delete your java cached apps):

Java Control Panel > General > Settings... > (accept defaults) Delete Files... > (accept defaults) > OK > OK > OK

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Hoosier Daddy

[CPeterson]

My Java is version 8 Update 331 (build 1.8.0_331-b09)

I believe it is not up to date because when I run Start.jlnp I see this messages in lines 3 and 4 of the Java Console.

Using JRE version 1.8.0_331-b09 Java HotSpot (TM) 64-bit server

JRE Expiration date: 8/19/22 12:00 AM

********

I have run start.jlnp several times and I see no option that says "make ISY launcher" and it apparently has not been made on my desktop or elsewhere.  It does have buttons for Add, Refresh, Save, and Load.

I *used* to use a the ISY Admin Console from 2017 but that stopped working this month which was what motivated me to report the situation here.

Looking at the ISY Finder dialog again, I see it says my ISY version is 4.9.0.  Do I need to update that also and should I update my Java first?

 

[CPeterson]

My Mac OS is 10.13.6.

[CPeterson]

Ok, I deleted ALL the cache files, then ran Start.jnlp, and I got the "ISY Launcher" on my Desktop.

However, when I open ISY Launcher I get the message:

You have macOS 10.13.6.  The application requires macOS 10.15 or later.

If I update my mac to 10.15 I will lose about half of the programs I rely on.

 

 

[CPeterson]

Tonight I found what I was looking for wrt Java at java.com.  They indeed do say that if the Update hangs (which they say happens for some versions of macOS 10.9, but I have 10.13.6) you should re-install by hand.   They do not say that you have to remove the old version first.  Then I found this download page which worked, and I downloaded and installed Java 8 Update 341.  Now when I open Java Preferences and go to the update page, no more spinning wheel, it says I have the latest version.  And I can still run ISY from Start.jnlp (as I noted before, the ISY Launcher requires macOS 10.15 or higher).

Java Download Page (english)

Edited August 29, 2022 by CPeterson
edited to "if the Update hangs"

[CPeterson]

Now the biggest remaining issue is that I must run "start.jnlp" each time because I do not have macOS 10.15 or higher.

This does not seem like much of an inconvenience.  I click on Start and then I select Console from the pulldown and it starts.  OR am I missing something in the later version that I'd see if I could see if run ISY Launcher, a fancier console or something???

Also I need to upgrade my ISY which I guess I should have no fear of doing because I have the latest Java on my computer now.  Just need to find the ISY download page.

 

[PatPend]

My Macs also run 10.13.6 for the same reason and I too have to do the start.jnlp rigmarole every time.  I can sometimes get away with using the mobile app to do simple tasks, which avoids the the extra login steps.

[Dub]

5 hours ago, CPeterson said:

OR am I missing something in the later version that I'd see if I could see if run ISY Launcher, a fancier console or something???

Sounds like the summary is you got your Java updated, but the ISY Finder won't launch on the version of Mac OS you are on.  I looked it up the Mac OS version you are on and it was originally released in 2017.  I totally understand the dependency on the older version of Mac OS since you have programs that depend on it.  I would think eventually you will have other issues with other programs on this version of MacOS.

As far as missing out I don't think so, it just sounds like you are failing a version check in the ISY Finder that is not in the Start.jnlp.

Until recently I was running the Start.jnlp instead of ISY Finder, because of some confusion on my part and both ways of launching showed the same interface.  I am on a different hardware and version as I'm on Polisy and v5.4.4 

@Geddy is there any difference in the Admin Console whether it launches from ISY Finder or Start on the ISY?

On 8/25/2022 at 7:03 PM, CPeterson said:

On Mac, I had been using the ISY994i Admin Console for years, including a few months ago.  The one I have is dated August 27, 2015.  The ISY994 Dashboard is dated November 25, 2017.  I cannot update the console via the webpage sometimes discussed because that fails too in a similar way (described further below).

 

@CPeterson I think ultimately you will have to make some decision about upgrading your Mac and how to use the programs you need, but you don't have to solve that today.  I can imagine issues like this may creep up with other applications and possible web browsers.

[Geddy]

4 hours ago, Dub said:

@Geddy is there any difference in the Admin Console whether it launches from ISY Finder or Start on the ISY?

@Dub I'm not sure on a mac, but on Windows start.jnlp never launches an admin console process. So my guess is macOS just handles the jnlp different. Sorry...can't help on MAC. I think the other thing I would suggest is to dowload the admin.jnlp from the ISY and just use that to login each time and forget the start.jnlp. But again, I'm not sure why Mac is handling it differently. 

The "OLD" method was to download admin.jnlp directly from the ISY (http://##.##.##.##/admin.jnlp) (replace #s with actual ISY IP address). Save that admin.jnlp file somewhere easy to access (if the desktop that's fine). Double clicking that should open the admin console directly to the ISY and be prompted to log in (I just tested on my windows computer and it works each time I tried to log in).  The reason UDI went with the "ISY Launcher" method was during the 4.x to 5.x update there were a lot of beta releases. When you download the file directly from the ISY it is getting the UI for THAT SPECIFIC Firmware that you are running. When you update the firmware you MUST remember to remove/delete any old admin.jnlp files you have been using. THEN download a fresh one from the updated ISY994.

Ultimately...the most important thing to check once anybody has had issues with admin console is once logged into the ISY is goto Help -> About and confirm that User Interface and Firmware versions match EXACTLY (down to the date/time code). You should never have a mismatch on UI/FW or you're just asking for more problems.

 

@CPeterson Unfortunately I'm not much more help on MAC other than saying make sure you've tried everything mention in the wiki (https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page#MAC_OSX). They might be a little outdated, but with this and the help above by @Bumbershoot, @Hoosier Daddy, and @Dub seem to get you (and maybe others) going the right direction.

 

10 hours ago, CPeterson said:

OR am I missing something in the later version that I'd see if I could see if run ISY Launcher, a fancier console or something???

See above...you're not really "missing" anything, and there's no such thing as a "fancier console" (wishful thinking from a mac user...I love it!)  

Since you're having problems then I would skip the start.jnlp setup and just download the admin.jnlp from the ISY and use it. Hopefully that would work easier for you.

I don't know why they (Apple/macOS) would block you from opening admin console. I mean it's not like it's super new or something that it would be blocking it. I think perhaps the safety settings in Mac are blocking it and you need to review the posts above. I think @Bumbershoot once said the process had to be completed within minutes of the request or it didn't show in security settings. Either minutes or within an hour....anyway...not like you can just go looking in security a day or so after attempting to launch the admin console. If you're still having issues after going direct file from ISY route please post back and try to include some screen shots of any errors you run up against. It might help others that area familiar with the mac process and get you instant success.

 

 

5 hours ago, PatPend said:

My Macs also run 10.13.6 for the same reason and I too have to do the start.jnlp rigmarole every time. 

@PatPend same for you...I would download the admin.jnlp directly from the ISY994 using the information above. This should go around the issue you're having with start.jnlp.

 

Good luck all! Please post back if you have further issues and I think somebody will help guide you the rest of the way.

Great help here!

[CPeterson]

OK, so then it sounds like I should be able to upgrade my ISY994i to the latest firmware and it will run ok and present the console on 10.13.6, which btw is the last macOS that still runs 32 bit applications.

[Geddy]

1 minute ago, CPeterson said:

I should be able to upgrade my ISY994i to the latest firmware

Don't go too far on this yet.

What is your current firmware version? Please post a screen shot of your help -> about screen (can black out any personal info)

Mine is this:

 

If you're on 4.x then at least update to 4.9.If you're on 5.x then depending on if you use z-wave or not will determine your update path. If you don't use z-wave then yes, update all the way to 5.3.4. If you use z-wave please post what version z-wave is showing and if you know let us know what board you have. z-wave 300 controller you can only go to 5.0.16c. If you have z-wave 500 you can go all the way to 5.3.4. 

 

The reason I say don't jump into the update if you're in 4.x is that there was A LOT of effort to update to 5.x. And I'd say let's "fix"/resolve one issue at a time. 

So post your about and let's go from there. I don't think updating the ISY firmware would change your results on macOS. I think your version is old and something's blocking the process. If you can have more reliable success with directly using admin.jnlp let's call that a victory for now. I don't think you'd have much difference if you update the ISY to the "latest" version trying to fix your issue. Afterall, the ISY Launcher process was released in 2018. Best I can tell it hasn't changed...perhaps something in the background has changed, but there's no better "mouse trap" at this point. 

 

So don't update the ISY just yet!

[CPeterson]

Geddy: I have firmware 4.9.0 and UI 4.9.0, apparently the latest in the 4.x series.

I am not having any "issues" at this point, only the slight inconvenience of using Start every time, which apparently I can bypass by getting the Admin module instead.

I do not have Z-wave but my whole interest in upgrading was because I need to start adding Zwave capability soon because I cannot obtain any more Insteon modules.  So I have no way to expand w/o upgrading.

However, the Z-Wave module for ISY994i is still unavailable, so it's pointless now.  I have long been thinking I'd upgrade to Policy, but I won't do so until I can also get Z-wave module for that, which is still out of stock.

But if I upgrade to 5.x now, perhaps I'll be better prepared to upgrade to Policy when the combined package is available.

Edited August 29, 2022 by CPeterson
added image of version

[CPeterson]

I obtained the "Insteon_5.3.4.zip" file which is apparently what I use to do the upgrade using the "Manually Update ISY".  But will that update the UI as well?  There is no mention of updating UI separately in anything I've yet found in forum or wiki

[Dub]

1 hour ago, Geddy said:

If you can have more reliable success with directly using admin.jnlp let's call that a victory for now.

Very much agreed with this @CPeterson

5 minutes ago, CPeterson said:

I am not having any "issues" at this point, only the slight inconvenience of using Start every time, which apparently I can bypass by getting the Admin module instead.

If no issues definitely wait.  Let me know if you need help with trying to get the admin.jnlp directly from the ISY, but instructions above from Geddy should be all you need.  

6 minutes ago, CPeterson said:

But if I upgrade to 5.x now, perhaps I'll be better prepared to upgrade to Policy when the combined package is available.

Im not sure on if you will be better prepared.  I am not familiar with the upgrade paths.  One thing to note is UDI is coming out with the EISY....It will be the newer version of the hardware with Matter support.  It might be worth opening a ticket with UDI support about your upgrade path to EISY.  

Unless you need a newer version or UDI support recommends the upgrade, I would say "if its fixed dont break it", only because you have other dependencies for your device.

From what I can tell the Start.jnlp has to connect to UDI, so you need internet and launching the Admin Console may just be taking longer on the ISY.  The admin.jnlp should fix that.

1 hour ago, CPeterson said:

which btw is the last macOS that still runs 32 bit applications.

Thank you for mentioning this, I had forgotten that about the specific version.  Im guessing the M1 chip isn't making this any easier.  I can confirm the Polisy with Java works on my MacBook Pro with M1 chip if anyone needs to know.

4 minutes ago, CPeterson said:

I obtained the "Insteon_5.3.4.zip" file which is apparently what I use to do the upgrade using the "Manually Update ISY".  But will that update the UI as well?  There is no mention of updating UI separately in anything I've yet found in forum or wiki

Im not sure I would update just yet, unless you really need to.  I just saw this reply as I was typing everything else above.

Geddy is the best, thank you for the ISY info!!

[Geddy]

14 minutes ago, CPeterson said:

I am not having any "issues" at this point, only the slight inconvenience of using Start every time, which apparently I can bypass by getting the Admin module instead.

Sounds like going the admin.jnlp route might be working better for you. Please let us know specifically. 

Since you're on 4.9 and you're working fine...STAY THERE! (personal suggestion right now...especially being a mac user with an "outdated" version of macOS.)

 

15 minutes ago, CPeterson said:

I do not have Z-wave but my whole interest in upgrading was because I need to start adding Zwave capability soon because I cannot obtain any more Insteon modules.  So I have no way to expand w/o upgrading.

Since you're still on ISY994 and it's working for what you have currently...STAY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE. UDI has new products out that are the current and future for controllers. Save your money and get an eisy when it comes out (time still TBD, but could be by EOY). Or you could wait for a Polisy to be available. But I would not spend money to update the ISY994 at this point. It's still a workhorse, but the equipment is not getting any planned updates at the moment so Polisy or the newer eisy will be the controllers you want to look for. 

15 minutes ago, CPeterson said:

But if I upgrade to 5.x now, perhaps I'll be better prepared to upgrade to Policy when the combined package is available.

Do NOT update to 5.x. It's a pain at this point (IMO). As I mentioned above...you're on an outdated macOS. There are a lot of fixing steps required for most 4.x to 5.x updates so I wouldn't want you to get messed up in the middle of an update if the OS messed up something. If you have access to a windows computer then I might suggest it be done, but at this point I'm more on the side of "ain't broke, don't fix it" for your situation. 

 

So, if you're able to access admin console regularly that's great! Let's call this a win and start saving a few bucks for a new controller when they're available. 

 

13 minutes ago, CPeterson said:

I obtained the "Insteon_5.3.4.zip" file which is apparently what I use to do the upgrade using the "Manually Update ISY".  But will that update the UI as well? 

Just going through the process of updating the firmware won't update the UI. You have to download a new version of admin.jnlp following each Firmware update to keep UI/FW matching. 

This is why the ISY Launcher process was developed. Whenever the FW changes you have to get a new admin.jnlp file from the ISY994 itself. Too many users forgot this step during the 5.x beta/update processes that UDI needed a way to develop a more streamlined (i.e. idiot proof) process. Sadly, even that has been met with ridicule...mostly from macOS users because mac is not very "friendly" at this stage of interaction (IMO).

 

So I think you're best where you are now. As long as you're able to login directly with the admin.jnlp process.

 

 

[Dub]

46 minutes ago, Geddy said:

So I think you're best where you are now. As long as you're able to login directly with the admin.jnlp process.

 

Very much agreed.

1 hour ago, CPeterson said:

I do not have Z-wave but my whole interest in upgrading was because I need to start adding Zwave capability soon because I cannot obtain any more Insteon modules.  So I have no way to expand w/o upgrading.

 

I saw this about Z-Wave after posting my previous response.  One thing to keep in mind Z-Wave is not the answer to all your problems.  You may want to read some threads on the forum about Z-Wave, there is some good, and some bad and make up your own mind if want to rush or wait on EISY.

I think for a long term ISY/Insteon user you might find Z-Wave frustrating as there are some nuances with Z-Wave.

As far as upgrading to Polisy vs EISY(soon to be available), there is no OTA firmware upgrade for Z-Wave on Polisy.  That is one capability Michel has mentioned will be available in EISY.

Another thing to consider with EISY is it will have Matter support(I am still on the fence about Matter as I want to see what it will do, but the EISY will have the best of all worlds.)

Since there is a lot going here, here's a summary of the recommendations:

-Stay on your current firmware of ISY(I trust Geddy on this)

-Research Z-Wave on the UDI forums

-Wait for EISY and contact UDI support about your upgrade path and requirements for what you have now

-Wait for Insteon hardware availability for short term needs or shorter term needs buy used on eBay(some prices are starting to come down)

I think your linchpin is your 32 bit applications and I understand that.  One thing I will consider a WIN for UDI and Java, is the Admin Console worked on my MacBook with M1 chip.  I wasn't locked to an older OS or chipset.  There are a lot of complaints about Java here in the forums, but it seems to be the least of the issue here compared to the 32 bit applications you need. The fact my Admin Console ran with no headaches on Mac M1, thats a win in my book.

 

[CPeterson]

Ok thanks to all.  I consider all problems now solved.

1) I needed to reinstall Java 8 by downloading from Java website because it wouldn't update.   I did not need to remove Java first.

2) I needed to download new Start.jnlp from U-D forum.  Since the icon it makes (when cache cleared) depends on a later macOS version, I could get admin.jnlp instead for a faster startup (but no big deal IMO).

3) I needed to click the lock on Preferences Security page to run Start.jnlp the first time.

4) There is no problem with 4.9.0, the version of Firmware and UI that I already had.  In fact it's the last version compatible with the earliest Zwave modules (300 series) if I happen to find one of those.  Otherwise I'm going to wait until I can buy the next U-D package that includes Zwave or other protocol that I decide I'm going to migrate to.

In the meantime the price of used Insteon modules on ebay has fallen from ridiculous scalping to normal or less.