Detemining ZWave routing info with XRay

[stevesreed]

Before migrating to IoX and the zmatter board, ISY used to have an option to show the ZWave neighbors, and last routing info. I found that useful for determining if I needed to add a repeater for better response.

I can't seem to find that with XRay. Is the info berried in the the details on the node info or node object pages?

I'm curious if I can remove the repeaters now that the zmatter board + polisy have better range.

[stevesreed]

I'll try this again, in case someone knows, but does not scroll so far down the message list

Is there a way to find the route from the zwave device back to the Policy/IoX? It seem like something that would be in one of the XRay pages, but I can't find anything that looks like a a list of nodes, etc.  It used to be easy to show them on the old 500 boards/ISYs

I'm on 5.5.9 and I can run the heal network command, which seems to be finding neighbors and saving the route back to the Policy/IoX, but I have no idea if it's taking a long route that would be improved if I added a device somewhere in-between, etc.

 

[DennisC]

2 hours ago, stevesreed said:

I'll try this again, in case someone knows, but does not scroll so far down the message list

Is there a way to find the route from the zwave device back to the Policy/IoX? It seem like something that would be in one of the XRay pages, but I can't find anything that looks like a a list of nodes, etc.  It used to be easy to show them on the old 500 boards/ISYs

I'm on 5.5.9 and I can run the heal network command, which seems to be finding neighbors and saving the route back to the Policy/IoX, but I have no idea if it's taking a long route that would be improved if I added a device somewhere in-between, etc.

 

Try opening the Event Viewer to level 3, then run Heal Network from the top ZWave menu. That will show you the most information I have seen.

Edit: I'm not in front of my computer to check, in the top leave menu is there an Update Neighbors? It's one of those 2.

Edited March 12, 2023 by DennisC
Added info.

[Geddy]

6 hours ago, stevesreed said:

I'll try this again, in case someone knows, but does not scroll so far down the message list

If nobody answered the original question then nobody probably knew the correct answer. Best option would be to ask UDI directly by opening a support ticket with the question.

https://www.universal-devices.com/my-tickets/
 

Since UDI wrote the code for the ISY994 method you reference and the eisy code then they would know if this was available/possible. That is, if what @DennisC said above doesn’t get you what you desire. 

[stevesreed]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:00 PM, DennisC said:

Try opening the Event Viewer to level 3, then run Heal Network from the top ZWave menu. That will show you the most information I have seen.

For me that just says it "Successfully assigned return route from  XX returning to 1".

Unfortunately it does not say how many step it to to get from XX to 1, unless that means all the devices can get to the Policy with zMatter in one hop?  I know the zwave signal is supposed to be stronger with the matter board and antenna, but it seem unlikely it could reach all the devices in my whole house. would be nice though


 

[stevesreed]

21 hours ago, Geddy said:

If nobody answered the original question then nobody probably knew the correct answer. Best option would be to ask UDI directly by opening a support ticket with the question.

Thanks. I'll open a ticket.

[stevesreed]

Chris from support pointed out that the low level neighbor info is available in the DH device page of XRay as:

Binary   DATA devices.4.data.neighbours = byte[8]
         [233235363E404346]

where each pair of digits is the hex value of the zwave node ID. Converting those to decimal and looking them up in the topology output gives you all the devices neightboors ISY nodes. He also added a feature request to list them as ISY nodes directly in XRay. 

Still no info on the route to the ISY from each device though.

I'm hoping we can get something like this from the old ISY994 with the 500 series ZWave board:

Edited March 17, 2023 by stevesreed

[stevesreed]

Since I've been moving from Insteon to ZWave lately, I've decided to go a head and get a "Z-Wave ToolBox" device to optimize the network and help debug zwave issues.

[lilyoyo1]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:51 PM, stevesreed said:

I'm curious if I can remove the repeaters now that the zmatter board + polisy have better range.

Not necessarily. Even if communication isn't broken, you're still better served having them than not having them. The strength in zwave comes from having a strong mesh network than just a few devices.

Network density matters more than range. By having additional devices, you're creating more pathways for communication rather than having a singular path. It's sort of like trying to yell at someone down the street. If your voice is loud (greater range), they may hear you. However, does that guarantee they'll hear you every time? Now picture the same scenario with 5 or 6 people in different places between you and them (network density). The chances of your message getting through is significantly higher. 

In addition, it depends on the generation of your devices. Zmatter's range is greatest with an all 700 series install. Anything lower and your range can be impacted.

On 3/12/2023 at 3:58 PM, stevesreed said:

 I have no idea if it's taking a long route that would be improved if I added a device somewhere in-between, etc.

 

There are no guarantees that will help you. If your current path is terrible, it may help but it all depends on how zwave chooses to route itself. For example, 2 of my bedrooms use an outlet from the 4th bedroom as their closest neighbor even though there are multiple devices much closer to the pathway. Some of my devices aren't even being used as repeaters. 

With zwave being self healing, even if you could control the outcome, whatever path you chose will probably be overridden. Your devices will look at what takes the least amount of hops to get the job done. Sometimes this may not be the most direct route (similar to Google maps routing)

9 hours ago, stevesreed said:

"Z-Wave ToolBox" device to optimize the network and help debug zwave issues.

If you're having issues or simply curious that can help. As I've stated previously, the self healing properties of zwave makes it a moot point. Since you stated you're replacing your insteon devices with leave, long term this will matter even less.

Network density (within reason) matters much more for an optimized network than anything else. By having a multitude of devices, you're giving your devices many more routes to take should something happen. It's akin to driving around. If you're in an area with 1 way in or out and something happens then you're stuck. However, it'll there are 5 or 6 different paths, you have a greater chance of bypassing traffic. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by lilyoyo1

[stevesreed]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:51 AM, lilyoyo1 said:

With zwave being self healing, even if you could control the outcome, whatever path you chose will probably be overridden. Your devices will look at what takes the least amount of hops to get the job done. Sometimes this may not be the most direct route (similar to Google maps routing)

I agree and in the long run it probably does not matter much.

Most of my problems have been with locks (Schlage and Kwok) being unreliable. Determining if I have a direct route to the ISY hopefully will help in this case. I have repeaters within feet of the locks, and that did not help much for reliability. I'm hoping the the Zmatter board with the antenna and stronger power will eliminate that issue. With more info I can determine if moving the Polisy to another room might help, or moving the repeater to different locations helps.

All my newer Zwave stuff is 700 series, including the repeaters, but the locks are 500 series I believe. I already replace my original Schlage with a newer zwave+ version that is much better, but it gets expensive replacing several hundred dollar locks.