Enough investors in here to start a new effort in non-cloud closed systems?

[universal1]

Everyone seems as happy with the cloud as they are with bitcoin. Caveat emptor. I've been extremely happy with my antiquated ISY99i system for a decade and see no reason why a similar basic system cannot be developed. I do like the IR feature that many simple systems don't provide.  Just recently I tried to reconfigure my system and ran into various problems I am sure have little support, such as TLS browser issues. Is the only choice now Home Director or the cloud? Say it ain't so. Are their others with similar serious cloud concerns that might like to do a start-up?

[lilyoyo1]

6 hours ago, universal1 said:

Everyone seems as happy with the cloud as they are with bitcoin. Caveat emptor. I've been extremely happy with my antiquated ISY99i system for a decade and see no reason why a similar basic system cannot be developed. I do like the IR feature that many simple systems don't provide.  Just recently I tried to reconfigure my system and ran into various problems I am sure have little support, such as TLS browser issues. Is the only choice now Home Director or the cloud? Say it ain't so. Are their others with similar serious cloud concerns that might like to do a start-up?

What are you talking about? The isy isn't cloud dependant nor has it ever been cloud dependant. You're using a system that hasn't been updated in 12 years that doesn't require a cloud connection so that should tell you that you're providing false information.

You've chosen to stick with something that modern systems simply don't support. That has nothing to do with the cloud. 

There are features that are cloud dependant but none require you to use them unless you choose to such as the portal to use Voice assistants (which are cloud based and udi has no control over). 

Whether you created your own protocol or used someone else's, if you plan on using a computer, you'll need to update it in order to continue to use a computer with it. 

You probably won't find anyone willing to invest with you. There's no money in creating a whole new protocol since insteon, zwave, and ZigBee has that pretty much on lock down. The market has spoken and people are ok with cloud based systems as long as it's a low cost solution. Besides, it's not necessarily about the devices themselves but the controller being local. Once again, there are plenty of systems that fit the description. Whether it's the isy, Polisy, eisy, HA, habitat homeseer, or countless others, cloud dependency isn't necessary. 

[universal1]

"people are ok with cloud based systems as long as it's a low cost solution"?

 

What is the price of privacy?

[asbril]

In my humble opinion, cloud is universal😀now.  I use several cloud services and apply 2-step security for sensitive information.  For me the pros are more important than the cons.

As for ISY, the fact that I can control my home (except for my wife ) while I am anywhere in the world is a major plus.

[universal1]

The ISY99I worked fine off web and you could open firewalls for vacations etc.

I do use a Logitech Harmony remote that requires internet access for updates but between updates it is offline.

[lilyoyo1]

10 hours ago, universal1 said:

"people are ok with cloud based systems as long as it's a low cost solution"?

 

What is the price of privacy?

Unless you live in the woods with no technology at all, you have no privacy. I'm ok with turning over certain information for the convenience that it provides me. You're in the minority when it comes to this. Not even worth the conversation. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by lilyoyo1

[asbril]

8 hours ago, universal1 said:

The ISY99I worked fine off web and you could open firewalls for vacations etc.

I do use a Logitech Harmony remote that requires internet access for updates but between updates it is offline.

The horse carriages also worked fine when the automobile was invented.

[universal1]

And when they passed a broken down Model-T they said "get a horse".

Computers are still in the Model-T stage.

I am fine being in the minority. The question is whether that minority is a big enough market. And speaking of markets and minorities, in the stock market the majority is almost always wrong.

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

7 minutes ago, universal1 said:

And when they passed a broken down Model-T they said "get a horse".

Computers are still in the Model-T stage.

I am fine being in the minority. The question is whether that minority is a big enough market. And speaking of markets and minorities, in the stock market the majority is almost always wrong.

 

 

This isn't the stock market and with the way cloud devices are selling- the majority has spoken. 

As I said earlier, there are plenty of non cloud options. However, technology changes so if you want to stick with the old, you'll have to deal with the pitfalls of that. Try using Windows 95 today and see what happens

[asbril]

22 minutes ago, universal1 said:

And when they passed a broken down Model-T they said "get a horse".

Computers are still in the Model-T stage.

I am fine being in the minority. The question is whether that minority is a big enough market. And speaking of markets and minorities, in the stock market the majority is almost always wrong.

 

 

Whatever makes you happy and good luck finding investors for the horse carriage.

A friend of mine still uses a flip phone without any apps.  In fact some religious communities limit themselves to that type of old phone. So may there be a market for your non-cloud ? I have been wrong with many investment opportunities and who knows.... I may be losing out on your investment as well  

[universal1]

"Try using Windows 95"?

I still have one laptop with windows95... works great. Just don't try installing a crappy new browser on it. I wonder if lynx still works. Many years ago I predicted people would demand video for websites. It is usually just eye candy without aany informational value. The downside is that websites like archive.org are trying to archive video too and they are going bankrupt as a result. A truly useful website going down the tubes due to insane priorities.

[sjenkins]

Actually, index funds have done the best in the market over time

[universal1]

27 minutes ago, asbril said:

A friend of mine still uses a flip phone

Phones are a great example of "modern technology". Your phone number will be the new SSN to track you. And there is little you can do about it. Try getting an online bank account without having a mobile phone. You can't even use landlines, although some have a SMS interface.

[universal1]

3 minutes ago, sjenkins said:

index funds have done the best

You don't get to the 1% buying index funds. They may keep up with inflation if you are lucky.

[sjenkins]

3 minutes ago, universal1 said:

You don't get to the 1% buying index funds. They may keep up with inflation if you are lucky.

try a quick search before you speak…
(I used to be in investment banking). 

S&P 500 annual returns

Over the past 30 years, the S&P 500 index has delivered a compound average annual growth rate of 10.7% per year.
 

Edited February 26, 2023 by sjenkins

[Javi]

12 hours ago, universal1 said:

The ISY99I worked fine off web and you could open firewalls for vacations etc.

I do use a Logitech Harmony remote that requires internet access for updates but between updates it is offline.

@universal1,  I think this topic is not going anywhere. Others users  have already pointed out offline only systems, including ours, that already exist.  Some of these systems are open to investors.

Eisy work similar to the ISY994, although our setup pushes users to Portal as most users just want the system to work without needing to open ports, install certificates, get a static IP or dyndyns service.  So, from our mobile app you can select "I'm an expert" and manage everything yourself.

The major difference is your client's (browsers/mobile apps)  security.  Most mobile browsers will throw errors or not connect if you do not have a valid certificate. Both Android and iOS will remove options to allow these connections in the future. The iOS App Store may reject apps that try to circumvent this security measure.  Basically don't bring your  knife (Self Signed Cert and open port) to the tank battle (modern hacking). 

[universal1]

5 minutes ago, sjenkins said:

growth rate of 10.7% per year

And adjusted for inflation? This year 2%? 2% won't get you to the 1%.

7 minutes ago, sjenkins said:

used to be in investment banking

Santos, is that you?

[lilyoyo1]

18 minutes ago, universal1 said:

"Try using Windows 95"?

I still have one laptop with windows95... works great. Just don't try installing a crappy new browser on it. I wonder if lynx still works. Many years ago I predicted people would demand video for websites. It is usually just eye candy without aany informational value. The downside is that websites like archive.org are trying to archive video too and they are going bankrupt as a result. A truly useful website going down the tubes due to insane priorities.

If you say so. You're screwed either way so this conversation is useless

[sjenkins]

4 minutes ago, universal1 said:

And adjusted for inflation? This year 2%? 2% won't get you to the 1%.

Santos, is that you?

Warren Buffett's favorite investment

Billionaire investor Warren Buffett has said that an S&P 500 index fund is the best investment most people can make. In fact, he stated that he wants his wife's money invested in such a fund after he's gone. This investment advice might seem a bit surprising since Buffett is well-known for his stock-picking ability.

[universal1]

3 minutes ago, sjenkins said:

the best investment most people can make

Buffet is pretty conservative and didn't get to the 1% with that strategy. It took 6 of Obama's 8 years to get back to the Bush market highs. Some people can't afford that.

[universal1]

11 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

this conversation is useless

To the majority obviously.

Any 1%ers here?

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by universal1
improvement

[lilyoyo1]

6 minutes ago, universal1 said:

To the majority obviously.

Any 1%ers here?

 

You don't get to the 1% making poor choices. Besides, why would users jump from here to support your dream of a 1990 style system. Just go back to X10. You'll get what you're looking for. @Geddy, can we close this post. It's a useless conversation. 

[larryllix]

Many different concepts hete that don't necessarily conflict.

In the end the ISY products give you options to go either way


My policies use some cloud services but none would cripple my system if they collapse.

So..it's about dependence vs enhanced features, not one or the other.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[asbril]

1 hour ago, universal1 said:

Phones are a great example of "modern technology". Your phone number will be the new SSN to track you. And there is little you can do about it. Try getting an online bank account without having a mobile phone. You can't even use landlines, although some have a SMS interface.

Welcome to the 21rst century.  

I doubt that one's phone number will be the new SSN, but more likely it will be a secure app on the phone. In fact this is likely to improve security and make it more difficult to steal someone's SSN.

Nobody forces you to open an online bank account. For the foreseeable you can still walk into a bank branch, write checks, take cash from a teller etc, but prepare yourself for the future. In Europe there are many bank branches without a teller and only an ATM,  and that is coming to the US as well.

I understand your concerns but accept (reluctantly as it may be) evolution.

[dbuss]

I'd be happy to invest in your 1990 technology company, provided you can take me back to my age in 1990.