SSS Posted May 31, 2023 Posted May 31, 2023 Will we ever see HomeKit support ? Honestly UD is missing out 20-30% market for those who live in that ecosystem…true smartthings is more popular but a huge miss by not supporting HomeKit… In my opinion when there was no HomeKit and others isy, and now eisy were the best, however they need a lot of technical knowledge and will remain a niche market only for tech savvy HA enthusiasts. With the introduction of HomeKit non techies can also do HA…however platforms like UD (which will still remain a very good platform) but only for those niche techie users…hence my assessment of a missed opportunity of 20-30% upside. I agree to all the arguments apple not that open, difficult to work with expensive etc…but the truth is it does have a huge new market place. One can get get HomeKit support via homebrdige but again we are going towards techies not common house hold users. …with Matter support based on my previous blog posted it seems iffy, How l wish we could one day dramatically see all eisy devices in HomeKit
elvisimprsntr Posted May 31, 2023 Posted May 31, 2023 UDI has already stated the $ to get HomeKit certification is too expensive. The same will likely apply to Matter, which is just another bureaucratic $tandard$ organization. HomeKit support is already achievable via Homebridge or Home Assistant, and does not require UDI to spend any $ to obtain certification. Personally, I run Homebridge on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS on a MeLE Quieter3C. Initially, I ran HB on a Ubuntu VM. Took me a couple of hours over the Xmas holiday. My advice is to roll up your sleeves and dive it. 1
SSS Posted May 31, 2023 Author Posted May 31, 2023 I use Hoobs, but the point I am trying to make is for UD to capture 20-30% more they have to directly support HomeKit. l can also think of a future date say when all of us with multiple hubs, eisy, HA, Hoobs, Hue etc…and in some cases do some coding as well in HA and Hoobs…what to sell our homes and say it’s a smart home and get some premium, we may get into some negative impact when we start to explain how all these things work together. Unless the buyer is a techie as well, but one is then going into a smaller niche market segment, few buyers will value this.
elvisimprsntr Posted May 31, 2023 Posted May 31, 2023 Unless you have a high end home with a Crestron or similar system, your home brew home automation will not add value to your home. It will actually deter potential buyers who do not want to inherit someone else’s hobby and finicky system. The certification and recertification costs are in the $100,000’s, and recurring license fees on top of that. UDI would never be able to recoup those costs. The “new” Insteon will likely be in the same boat. 1
SSS Posted May 31, 2023 Author Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) Agree…but Insteon devices replaced by existing manual devices should be ok while selling all other items are peripherals hence no certification needed. But once we make it minimal hubs, standard systems like HomeKit and 99% stable no day to day maintenance changes, etc…it should add value, l sold my previous house with only Insteon switches and did get value, the new house has switches, curtains, cameras, sensors, garage door openers etc…all integrated with Roomie Remote and with in wall touchscreen control via iPad and almost 99% maintenance free very stable, but under the hood is what scares me and anyone in future, hence the need for one hub one app…as outlined, in my opinion eisy and RR offers just that…only if the one missing link HomeKit support is added. Edited May 31, 2023 by SSS
SSS Posted May 31, 2023 Author Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) Also note Insteon and isy994 and now eisy, I hope built on the same quality…are world class products, in built quality, reliability and long lasting and can demand same premium as Crestron Lutron etc…it’s more of DIY solution vs professional installation hence super expensive. Edited May 31, 2023 by SSS
Michel Kohanim Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 We are investigating using HomeBridge inside eisy. With kind regards, Michel 3
brians Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) The issue with the HomeBridge ISY plugins is that the are very old and do not work with newer devices in IoX such as Z-Wave binary switches - eg. a Zen32 or a Zen51 would not show up in HomeKit with HomeBridge. I would hope someone fixes it to make work better if gets installed in EISY. Hubitat has HomeKit support, not sure how they could afford it but maybe they sell lots?!? Or maybe that is why it is in Beta. Edited June 2, 2023 by brians
SSS Posted June 2, 2023 Author Posted June 2, 2023 Yes and that killer app or should I say apps is a Combo of HomeKit and Roomie Remote…😀…RR supports HomeKit as such this is an indirect way to get all eisy devices in RR
brians Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 15 minutes ago, SSS said: Yes and that killer app or should I say apps is a Combo of HomeKit and Roomie Remote…😀…RR supports HomeKit as such this is an indirect way to get all eisy devices in RR HomeKit users already are in the HomeKit ecosystem and most likely use the built in Home App. Roomie Remote is mainly an AV remote control with added on HomeKit control which took probably minimal effort since its built into iOS anyways. What my point is, most HomeKit users probably don't have any Insteon or any reason to use EISY and probably just built their HK system around things that work... but if you have older legacy hardware and need an IoX to run Insteon, then that is an issue. (I accidentally deleted part of my previous post above so SSS response didn't make sense reading it by itself, but what I was asking SSS is to tell me why HomeKit user would want an EISY... and answer is RR )
lilyoyo1 Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 1:29 PM, SSS said: I use Hoobs, but the point I am trying to make is for UD to capture 20-30% more they have to directly support HomeKit. l can also think of a future date say when all of us with multiple hubs, eisy, HA, Hoobs, Hue etc…and in some cases do some coding as well in HA and Hoobs…what to sell our homes and say it’s a smart home and get some premium, we may get into some negative impact when we start to explain how all these things work together. Unless the buyer is a techie as well, but one is then going into a smaller niche market segment, few buyers will value this. Were do you have the numbers to back up your 20-30%? 20 to 30% of the users on this forum aren't even concerned about using Homekit so they would be going after non-techie folks who aren't about to invest in the time and effort it takes to learn and program one of these systems. DIY smarthomes do not add a premium to the sale of a home. You may have a buyer who wants the technology be more inclined to purchase yours over someone elses but you will not get a return on your investment. There are items that does increase the value of a home but I wouldnt call it a premium.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 5:58 PM, SSS said: Also note Insteon and isy994 and now eisy, I hope built on the same quality…are world class products, in built quality, reliability and long lasting and can demand same premium as Crestron Lutron etc…it’s more of DIY solution vs professional installation hence super expensive.
SSS Posted June 2, 2023 Author Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) My numbers 20-30% are new users not currently using eisy, hence not in this forum and a gut feel. Re value, yes no value if you just implement a HA which allows control form a multiple apps, one too many logins, needs reboot now and then almost reminds me of earlier windows PC etc… Here is what I have implemented, multiple iPads in the house ruining RR on the wall, powered 24/7, use them to control device, activity, guided access makes it 100% working all the time just like a any lcd HA touch screen control, home sharing, etc… Lights, cameras, sensor status, doors, locks, thermostats all in place, RR also has direct IP links to 1000 of AV devices so you can put all in one place AV and Lights and Cameras and so on… …have you or anyone taken an in-depth dive on the power and all the features of RR? Then one would know what I am taking about ? see snapshots of just tow rooms and they are all in sync, one, app, master and client devices etc…. its 95% close to any professional system at a fraction of the cost and scalable, customizable without the need to call for someone to come and visit… Edited June 2, 2023 by SSS
lilyoyo1 Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, SSS said: My numbers 20-30% are new users not currently using eisy, hence not in this forum and a gut feel The installed base is a good measurement of your market as it shows the type of people that are looking to use your system so this may be a gut feeling based on your desires vs what the avg person really wants. The fact that you are literally the only one pushing shows that there is a lack of interest. 1 hour ago, SSS said: Re value, yes no value if you just implement a HA which allows control form a multiple apps, one too many logins, needs reboot now and then almost reminds me of earlier windows PC etc… I install automation systems in homes for a living and have yet to see a single person recoup those costs in any given sale. What I have seen is their homes get chosen over similar homes without any smarts....Since covid, none of this has really mattered. At least in the areas that I frequent, if it can be called a house, it sells within days on the market...if it makes it that far. 1 hour ago, SSS said: …have you or anyone taken an in-depth dive on the power and all the features of RR? Then one would know what I am taking about ? I did once a long time ago but went with Command fusion instead due to it being a much more capable and professional looking system. 1 hour ago, SSS said: its 95% close to any professional system at a fraction of the cost and scalable, customizable without the need to call for someone to come and visit… I know you're really into RR and that's great but there is a reason why its a fraction of the cost. Your statement reminds me of people saying how certain low end cars look like something more expensive....until they see the true luxury version (ie: Chrysler 300 when it first came out vs Rolls Royce). Reality is, the people paying for high end systems are doing so because they do not want to deal with building their own app and managing their system. They just want it to work. I just had a client pay me to install Amazon echo's and firecubes in his guest bedroooms because he didn't want to deal with it himself. Ditto for the masses. There's a reason why people choose homekit (by extension, every other system like it) in the first place....Everything is there laid out for them. They don't have to invest time in buying an app that they now have to design and build upon. That stuff is for the world of tinkerers.
SSS Posted June 5, 2023 Author Posted June 5, 2023 On 6/1/2023 at 11:43 AM, Michel Kohanim said: We are investigating using HomeBridge inside eisy. With kind regards, Michel Quick question, so this implementation will not need a separate homebridge hub correct?
brians Posted June 5, 2023 Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) On 5/31/2023 at 10:06 AM, elvisimprsntr said: UDI has already stated the $ to get HomeKit certification is too expensive. The same will likely apply to Matter, which is just another bureaucratic $tandard$ organization. HomeKit support is already achievable via Homebridge or Home Assistant, and does not require UDI to spend any $ to obtain certification. Personally, I run Homebridge on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS on a MeLE Quieter3C. Initially, I ran HB on a Ubuntu VM. Took me a couple of hours over the Xmas holiday. My advice is to roll up your sleeves and dive it. What version of ISY integration do you use with Homebridge? The rodtoll one I was using for many years (not developed anymore, and the pradeep one broke pretty much everything on it for me, no longer developed also), until earlier this year, had issues with many zwave device (mentioned elsewhere here). If UD is going to make make Homebridge work on EISY, I wonder if they will be updating/supporting the Homebridge ISY plugin and bringing it up to date. Edited June 5, 2023 by brians
elvisimprsntr Posted June 5, 2023 Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, brians said: What version of ISY integration do you use with Homebridge? The rodtoll one I was using for many years (not developed anymore, and the pradeep one broke pretty much everything on it for me, no longer developed also), until earlier this year, had issues with many zwave devices that report as binary switches would not show up (eg. Zen32). I resolved by moving to Home Assistant. If UD is going to make make Homebridge work on EISY, I wonder if they will be updating/supporting the Homebridge ISY plugin and bringing it up to date. These are the plug-ins I use. Edited June 5, 2023 by elvisimprsntr
lilyoyo1 Posted June 5, 2023 Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, brians said: If UD is going to make make Homebridge work on EISY, I wonder if they will be updating/supporting the Homebridge ISY plugin and bringing it up to date. I doubt it since it would be a pg3/pg3x nodeserver. Besides that, UDI has stated no more updates regarding isy
brians Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 5 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: I doubt it since it would be a pg3/pg3x nodeserver. Besides that, UDI has stated no more updates regarding isy The current HomeBridge plugin which seems to be the best is still called Homebridge Isy Js. I am sure it could be renamed with something IoX in it for clarification. This is nothing to do with them updating the ISY994i. Michel said they are investigating using Homebridge inside EISY and did not mention a nodeserver.. not sure why they would take the time to do that when Homebridge already has a UI and they just need to fix up the Isy, (or "Iox") plugin.
SSS Posted June 6, 2023 Author Posted June 6, 2023 Yes hoping for something soon for eisy, just curious as I never tried this in ISY, did it supported just Insteon devices or all devices that are in ISY.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 37 minutes ago, brians said: The current HomeBridge plugin which seems to be the best is still called Homebridge Isy Js. I am sure it could be renamed with something IoX in it for clarification. This is nothing to do with them updating the ISY994i. Michel said they are investigating using Homebridge inside EISY and did not mention a nodeserver.. not sure why they would take the time to do that when Homebridge already has a UI and they just need to fix up the Isy, (or "Iox") plugin. Michel has mentioned many times that they're moving to a nodeserver set-up for everything. Besides that, why update something they have no plans of supporting
brians Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: Michel has mentioned many times that they're moving to a nodeserver set-up for everything. Besides that, why update something they have no plans of supporting Michel said earlier in this thread (look up above) that they are investigating using Homebridge inside EISY so they must have some sort of plan/discussion about it if they actually go ahead with this. It would be nice if they would do some sort of support for the integration as well to make sure it works bit better, and stays working, otherwise what is the point of adding Homebridge to EISY then? Edited June 6, 2023 by brians
brians Posted June 6, 2023 Posted June 6, 2023 @SSS the HACS version of the ISY integration for Home Assistant supports node servers a lot better. Maybe setup a HA box, install that and give a try, and give feedback to the developer... go check it out by looking in the Home Assistant forum, I just seen this. Once in Home Assistant, you can use the built-in HomeKit Bridge to being the entities you want over into HomeKit and should work with RR
SSS Posted June 6, 2023 Author Posted June 6, 2023 This forum request is for direct HomeKit compatibility from eisy…not by using another homebridge hub…like HA or Hoobs, l use Hoobs and able to import all native devices into HomeKit
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