Lights on level keep resetting to 0

[RRoyceus]

I am having a problem with my Insteon  light switches on level resetting themselves to a o on level. This has become daily problem with many different switches.   Is anybody else having this problem or know a solution?  I do not have any Z-Wave light switches to know if it is an Insteon problem or an ISY problem.

[Techman]

What controller and controller firmware version are you running?

When you change the ON level you need to click on the ON Level button to the left of the level setting?

Edited August 9, 2023 by Techman

[MrBill]

Three possibilities...

1. the On-level is actually changing, this is likely a program changing the on-level.
2. The On-level is not actually changing but for some reason the admin console is displaying it as zero.   In this case clear the java cache including installed applications and applets, remove any copie of start.jnlp or admin.jnlp that are laying around your filesystem, download a new copy of start.jnlp and double click it.
3. When you're setting the on-level in the admin column you are not setting the value in dropdown and then Pressing the On_level button to the left of the dropdown.

[RRoyceus]

1 hour ago, Techman said:

What controller and controller firmware version are you running?

When you change the ON level you need to click on the ON Level button to the left of the level setting?

I am using the Eisy with the latest firmware.  The problem also happened prior to going to the Eisy when using a Polisy. The on level is actually changing.  The lights it is happening are controlled with programs or Alexa.  The programs have been used for years without problems until the last several months.   I have also used Alexa for years.

I notice it when either a program or a Alexa command should  the light on, but nothing happens. Some switches are triggered by the time of day; some are triggered by a motion detector.  I rarely if ever turn and lights on at the switch.  When the light does not turn on, I use either the admin console or UD mobile, go to the device, query the device see the on level has been reset to 0. I  change it back to 100 or the level I want, then write the changes.  The switches will work ok for some times a day, some times a week, then it randomly happens again.  I has happened with numerous switches, numerous times. 

[MrBill]

15 hours ago, RRoyceus said:

I am using the Eisy with the latest firmware.

Excuse me, but this doesn't answer the question.  Nor does it help people scrolling thru the forum in the near or distant future trying to figure out there own problem.     I've seen people in this very forum later reply, "sorry I assumed  since the unit had the lastest firmware because it was just shipped to me.  I've also seen, I didn't know we had a 5.6.3 I thought it was 5.3.0.     Look at the admin console Help > About  and answer the question.   Also verify that firmware and UI versions are identical. 

</rant off>

15 hours ago, RRoyceus said:

I notice it when either a program or a Alexa command should  the light on, but nothing happens. Some switches are triggered by the time of day; some are triggered by a motion detector.  I rarely if ever turn and lights on at the switch.  When the light does not turn on, I use either the admin console or UD mobile, go to the device, query the device see the on level has been reset to 0. I  change it back to 100 or the level I want, then write the changes.  The switches will work ok for some times a day, some times a week, then it randomly happens again.  I has happened with numerous switches, numerous times. 

this simply must be programs.  I can't explain why they behave differently today than they used to without seeing your programs.   Yours is also a one-off complaint.... meaning out of 1000's you're the only one reporting this problem, that fact also points to your programs.  When a change or bug comes thru that effect the way things have worked for years... we hear about it from 100's of users and those of use who help people in the forum get tired of typing the same thing over and over again... that's not happening here.  One person is complaining that on-level suddenly and  magically gets changed somehow.   

Most of us are happy to help you figure it out, but you'll have to play the game too.

[Michel Kohanim]

@RRoyceus,

Please look for Adjust Scene in your programs, and as @MrBill suggested, use Find/Replace to find which program is doing things to your device.

With kind regards,
Michel

[RRoyceus]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:16 AM, Michel Kohanim said:

@RRoyceus,

Please look for Adjust Scene in your programs, and as @MrBill suggested, use Find/Replace to find which program is doing things to your device.

With kind regards,
Michel

Thanks Michael.  I using Eisy  IoX v.5.6.3 Firmware and UI.  In my first post, I asked if anybody else has had this problem. if this is a one off reported problem, I would just as soon not waste everybody's time.  Eventually I will figure out what the gremlin is.  I am also changing my password in case somebody is logging into my system and changing my programs, however I suspect that is not it, the on level would show up as "0", not blank.

I am not sure how to use find / replace to search when the value is "On" followed by nothing.  I have just gone to each program and looked at it.  I have never used adjust scene in any program.  Here is a program where the light's on level got changed to 0, actually changed to nothing.  Notice, it does not have an "on" level, just says "On".  I had checked and fixed the on level on all my programs last night.  Another program was also changed this morning.  In that case it was a Z-wave device, so I think we can rule out it being an Insteon problem like I initially suspected.   That device and program had worked flawlessly for at least a year. 

Here is the program after I fixed it:

After fixing it, I saved the program.  The same thing happened over night to another program.  The device is not connected to a scene.  

[Techman]

@RRoyceus

If you click on the device, and assuming that you're not using scenes, or programs to adjust the on level, you can set the on level and ramp rate. When a program turns on the light it will be to the level set in the device window. When the light is turned on, the "on" will change from "0" to the level set in the "on level"

[RRoyceus]

1 hour ago, Techman said:

@RRoyceus

If you click on the device, and assuming that you're not using scenes, or programs to adjust the on level, you can set the on level and ramp rate. When a program turns on the light it will be to the level set in the device window. When the light is turned on, the "on" will change from "0" to the level set in the "on level"

Thanks, but that is the first thing that I tried.  I would set the  on level then write the changes.  Yesterday I decided it must be programs so changed all of the programs to on 100%.  I also thought it must be related to scenes, but one it happened to before and the one today are not in a scene.  I am ready to give up and just live with it. 

[Geddy]

50 minutes ago, RRoyceus said:

I would set the  on level then write the changes

@RRoyceus, you keep using the words "write the changes". Are you hitting the button on the device that says "write changes"?

As @Techman and @MrBill said in the replies above to set the "On Level" you have to hit the "On Level" button to the left of the dropdown. 

 

This is what sets the ON LEVEL for that device.

3 hours ago, RRoyceus said:

I am not sure how to use find / replace to search when the value is "On" followed by nothing.

I wouldn't look for raw text of on level, but rather the devices you indicate it happening two "before and the one today". This would find any program that references those DEVICES. Perhaps there's a random program that you don't recall making that's somehow been corrupted or changing the "ON LEVEL" and you didn't realize it was happening. 

Otherwise, you can ineed look for "On Level" in your programs. Just change the Find to "Raw Text" then type in On Level in the next line:

That will take you to any program that references an "On Level" setting. Make sure that's set to 100 (or whatever you want it set to). 

Then SAVE the programs. Then find it again...going through that process until you get back to the first program you fixed.

Note that setting an "On Level" in the program does not turn the device on. It simply sets the "On Level". So if you have to use the "ON" function. Should look like this:

 
Then
        Set 'Master Bath' On

 

3 hours ago, RRoyceus said:

Notice, it does not have an "on" level, just says "On". 

This is the CORRECT display for programming to turn a device ON. There should not be an "On Level" used. It should just be "ON". At least for MOST simple programs of "If x, then turn on".

 

3 hours ago, RRoyceus said:

Here is the program after I fixed it:

While this is one way to "fix" this, it's not the most ideal way (IMO). This will ALWAYS trigger this light to 100% when this program runs. While this might work for this situation sometimes you might want the light to not be at 100% when motion is triggered. Since you're using a motion sensor to trigger a light I'm wondering if the motion sensor isn't triggering correctly and not even running the program. Have you looked at your "Summary" tab on the programs to see what's run recently when you have this issue? 

 

Please help us understand, you said the devices are being set to an "on level" of 0 (zero). Where do you see this? Are you look at the admin console and the device itself? 

If it looks like this when you're viewing it what do you see is "0"?

While the screenshot clearly has an "on level" of 100% the "ON" percent is currently 0% for this device because it is "OFF". When I use the "On" button in Admin Console the on line changes to "100%" because the "On Level" is set to be 100%. Are you expecting that the "ON" % should be 100% if the "On Level" is 100%, but the light is off so you're reading that as "0% On Level"?

 

On 8/9/2023 at 4:00 PM, RRoyceus said:

Is anybody else having this problem or know a solution?

Finally, no, this appears to be isolated issue that you're having (at least here on the forums). I run nearly all Insteon devices and have a couple of programs that adjust the "On Level" given the time of day as well as using Alexa to turn other lights on/off during the day and do not have the experience you are having. 

Earlier you said this problem started when on the Polisy. Since you're just now bringing it up there's little chance that anything that changed in your system recently triggered this. 

My random thought is that if might even pre-date the Polisy if you used the ISY994 and went from 4.x to 5.x firmware on the ISY994 there was an event in the update process that enabled all programs. You might have made a program ages ago that you thought was disabled, but silently became enabled in an old ISY994 update that you only noticed/experienced recently. Just a theory, but could certainly explain why it was happening during the Polisy time and moved to the eisy. 

Either way..."just living with it" isn't a solution for most. Glad it might work for you. You've been given a lot of tools to try to hunt down the culprit and fix it. Please post back with any additional findings you might make that somebody can truly get this issue resolved for you.

Good luck!

 

[RRoyceus]

16 hours ago, Geddy said:

@RRoyceus, you keep using the words "write the changes". Are you hitting the button on the device that says "write changes"?

As @Techman and @MrBill said in the replies above to set the "On Level" you have to hit the "On Level" button to the left of the dropdown. 

 

This is what sets the ON LEVEL for that device.

I wouldn't look for raw text of on level, but rather the devices you indicate it happening two "before and the one today". This would find any program that references those DEVICES. Perhaps there's a random program that you don't recall making that's somehow been corrupted or changing the "ON LEVEL" and you didn't realize it was happening. 

Otherwise, you can ineed look for "On Level" in your programs. Just change the Find to "Raw Text" then type in On Level in the next line:

That will take you to any program that references an "On Level" setting. Make sure that's set to 100 (or whatever you want it set to). 

Then SAVE the programs. Then find it again...going through that process until you get back to the first program you fixed.

Note that setting an "On Level" in the program does not turn the device on. It simply sets the "On Level". So if you have to use the "ON" function. Should look like this:

 
Then
        Set 'Master Bath' On

 

This is the CORRECT display for programming to turn a device ON. There should not be an "On Level" used. It should just be "ON". At least for MOST simple programs of "If x, then turn on".

 

While this is one way to "fix" this, it's not the most ideal way (IMO). This will ALWAYS trigger this light to 100% when this program runs. While this might work for this situation sometimes you might want the light to not be at 100% when motion is triggered. Since you're using a motion sensor to trigger a light I'm wondering if the motion sensor isn't triggering correctly and not even running the program. Have you looked at your "Summary" tab on the programs to see what's run recently when you have this issue? 

 

Please help us understand, you said the devices are being set to an "on level" of 0 (zero). Where do you see this? Are you look at the admin console and the device itself? 

If it looks like this when you're viewing it what do you see is "0"?

While the screenshot clearly has an "on level" of 100% the "ON" percent is currently 0% for this device because it is "OFF". When I use the "On" button in Admin Console the on line changes to "100%" because the "On Level" is set to be 100%. Are you expecting that the "ON" % should be 100% if the "On Level" is 100%, but the light is off so you're reading that as "0% On Level"?

 

Finally, no, this appears to be isolated issue that you're having (at least here on the forums). I run nearly all Insteon devices and have a couple of programs that adjust the "On Level" given the time of day as well as using Alexa to turn other lights on/off during the day and do not have the experience you are having. 

Earlier you said this problem started when on the Polisy. Since you're just now bringing it up there's little chance that anything that changed in your system recently triggered this. 

My random thought is that if might even pre-date the Polisy if you used the ISY994 and went from 4.x to 5.x firmware on the ISY994 there was an event in the update process that enabled all programs. You might have made a program ages ago that you thought was disabled, but silently became enabled in an old ISY994 update that you only noticed/experienced recently. Just a theory, but could certainly explain why it was happening during the Polisy time and moved to the eisy. 

Either way..."just living with it" isn't a solution for most. Glad it might work for you. You've been given a lot of tools to try to hunt down the culprit and fix it. Please post back with any additional findings you might make that somebody can truly get this issue resolved for you.

Good luck!

 

Thank you for the lengthy, very thorough reply.

yes, when the problem occurs, I go to a device and see the on level is at 0 when previously it had been set to 100% or a different value.

When this happens, at the device, I am use the On Level drop down  and chose the desired on  level, in most cases 100%.  A few are at a lesser value, such as 50%. 

When I set it I am using the "Write Changes" button after setting the level.

" My random thought is that if might even pre-date the Polisy if you used the ISY994 and went from 4.x to 5.x firmware on the ISY994 there was an event in the update process that enabled all programs. You might have made a program ages ago that you thought was disabled, but silently became enabled in an old ISY994 update that you only noticed/experienced recently. Just a theory, but could certainly explain why it was happening during the Polisy time and moved to the eisy. "

You are correct, it may predate Polisy.  I started with the original  ISY probably 20 tears ago and have updated my ISY's many times and upgraded the firmware countless times.  I probably have a 100 programs and  occasionally happen across an old program that no longer works because of deleted devices or has disabled.   I guess it is time to go through them one by one.

" "

My programs now all have the line:

This may have fixed the problem; none of them changed today.

We have a large 3 story house.  I have automated more things than most and the system has grown to the point that it is extremely complex.  I make extensive use of motion sensors to turn on lights.  Separate programs turn them off if there is no motion after a period.   I taught logic and programing in college 50 years ago so most of the time, I can troubleshoot the system. If my latest changes does not correct it. I will just keep searching for something that may be causing it.

As I said, I am taking up to much of everybody's time on this.  Maybe the post will help somebody else if they have the same problem. Thanks for everybody's help, but I think it is time to stop the discusion..

[larryllix]

IIRC, there was a thread about how the On Level is a one way parameter that ISY can set and operate to but cannot read it from some Insteon lighting devices.

I may be way out in left field here but it just rings a bell in the back of my memory cells from about 2-3 years back here.