Best ISY supported "smart" water main shutoff valve?

[DennisC]

44 minutes ago, Javi said:

I stopped using CAO Tags for the same reason,  do the YoLink Devices work inside a fridge?

While I am still using CAO Wireless tags in the refrigerator with the extended rechargeable batteries, yes the YoLink devices can be used inside the refrigerator.

They have two lines of T&H devices. The original device is about $25. They have a newer X3 device which adds an extended life batteries, extended data logging, and storage for power outages. Of course they are more expensive.

[DennisC]

26 minutes ago, Merlin said:

I have been looking at the Wiki to try and figure out how to use Node servers, and like most of the wiki, it isn't very straightforward.

If you go to the plugin store in PG3, click on a plugin you are interested in, and then select more information, you should be taken to the plugin page. Many developers list configuration info there and some offer examples on how to use the plugin in programs and notifications.

[Merlin]

4 hours ago, DennisC said:

The YoLink plugin allows the sensor to be used in programs and notifications, just like Instead devices.

Once the plugin is connected to YoLink, all that needs to be done is add the device to the hub, then restart the plugin.

 

Seems straight forward. Once I better understand how PG3 works, I'll need to give it a go.

[Javi]

8 hours ago, Merlin said:

Seems straight forward. Once I better understand how PG3 works, I'll need to give it a go.

You can access from http://ipAddress:3000 (or eisy.local:3000)on your local network.   The Occupancy Node Servers on Portal is a Geofencing Node Server for third party apps.  No need access Occupancy unless you have a use case.  Installing and configuring the first Node server has a learning curve.   I recommend a weather Node Server to start, something like WeatherBit.  WeatherBit is $5 and allows you to add weather data to eisy.

 

[TheA2Z]

I've been using this for over 4 years.  Heavy duty.  Had a Dome but it wasnt strong enough to turn valve over time and stopped working.

Recommend a mount on type over a built into the valve model.  Much easier to replace if there is an issue.

Bulldog Valve Robot (econetshop.com)

[Merlin]

6 hours ago, Javi said:

You can access from http://ipAddress:3000 (or eisy.local:3000)on your local network.   The Occupancy Node Servers on Portal is a Geofencing Node Server for third party apps.  No need access Occupancy unless you have a use case.  Installing and configuring the first Node server has a learning curve.   I recommend a weather Node Server to start, something like WeatherBit.  WeatherBit is $5 and allows you to add weather data to eisy.

 

Thanks for the advice.

I got the Kasa node server trial up and running today. I only have 1 Kasa device that I'm using right now, but it's a good test and is helping me get used to PG3x. Doubly so since the initial Kasa install wasn't working, so I've been learning more about how to stop/start and delete/reinstall node servers, etc.

[Merlin]

6 hours ago, TheA2Z said:

I've been using this for over 4 years.  Heavy duty.  Had a Dome but it wasnt strong enough to turn valve over time and stopped working.

Recommend a mount on type over a built into the valve model.  Much easier to replace if there is an issue.

Bulldog Valve Robot (econetshop.com)

 

Yeah, it looks like YoLink has a couple different models, including their own implementation of the Bulldog Valve Robot. I'm going to be taking a more serious look at their stuff soon. I have a plumber coming in next week to take care of some other issues, so I am thinking I will have them swap out the gate valve for a ball valve either way. That way I have more options for adding an external valve operator that is easier to deal with if something fails. I'd also like to add a water pressure gauge while I'm at it, but I don't see any monitored pressure gauges... not that I really need it to be. It would also be nice to have a flow meter on there, but unless I'm writing my own monitoring apps, I don't know how valuable that would be.

[Merlin]

I'm curious if anyone has done any comparisons between the Zooz Titan and the EcoNet/YoLink Bulldog Valve Robot in terms of reliability, etc.

I am still entertaining the idea of getting a mechanical ball valve connected to a relay, but it feels like that may be overengineering the solution to a simple problem if there are simpler options available.

[sjenkins]

14 hours ago, Merlin said:

I'm curious if anyone has done any comparisons between the Zooz Titan and the EcoNet/YoLink Bulldog Valve Robot in terms of reliability, etc.

I am still entertaining the idea of getting a mechanical ball valve connected to a relay, but it feels like that may be overengineering the solution to a simple problem if there are simpler options available.

Hard to compare if you buy only one. I can say I’ve had the yo-link high torque robot for over a year now. It has been exorcised numerous times both through direct pairing with yo-link leak sensors as well as indirectly through eisy & node server from Insteon and zwave leak sensors. 

[jwagner010]

Perhaps something like this behind your current manual shutoff valve.  Pricey but would fit the use case:  https://www.homecontrols.com/Greenfield-Z-Wave-Automatic-Security-Valve-Kit-GFASVxZ?quantity=1&custcol2=25

 

 

[Merlin]

8 hours ago, sjenkins said:

Hard to compare if you buy only one. I can say I’ve had the yo-link high torque robot for over a year now. It has been exorcised numerous times both through direct pairing with yo-link leak sensors as well as indirectly through eisy & node server from Insteon and zwave leak sensors. 

 

I was thinking more along the lines of someone who purchased one of these remote shutoff valves, and then replaced it with another model. It would be nice to understand why and what worked or didn't work. For example, I see a lot of folks posting about how they moved away from the Moen Flo to other devices (or got away from an automatic shutoff completely). Though I suppose folks with more than one home (or rental property) might also have a use case for having more than one type of shutoff valve and would allow a comparison.

Wishful thinking perhaps?

[Merlin]

5 hours ago, jwagner010 said:

Perhaps something like this behind your current manual shutoff valve.  Pricey but would fit the use case:  https://www.homecontrols.com/Greenfield-Z-Wave-Automatic-Security-Valve-Kit-GFASVxZ?quantity=1&custcol2=25

 

I do have the Greenfield valve actuators on my "maybe" list. From what I understand, Greenfield also makes the valves for ELK, and those seem pretty reliable. Though for the price, I might as well stick with Taco Zone Sentry valve operators as they are higher end units that are designed for more demanding applications, and I could probably use the same type of actuator unit I already have in my hydronic system.

Thanks!

[Andy P]

I was pondering the same question when building a new house - then I realized I have a well! And that means I just have to cut power to the well. So, I installed one of these GE Enbrighten 240 volt - 40 amp z-wave switches and trigger it with a leak sensor. (The well pump only uses a 20 amp circuit for those electricians wondering about the bx cable).

Edited December 1, 2023 by Andy P

[tlightne]

I use the GE Embrighten 240 volt Zwave switch on my hot water heater to shut off power whenever my water main is closed for what ever reason...

 

[Merlin]

13 minutes ago, tlightne said:

I use the GE Embrighten 240 volt Zwave switch on my hot water heater to shut off power whenever my water main is closed for what ever reason...

 

I have the Insteon version of this that powers some supplementary electric baseboard heaters, but that is a good idea. I'll have to see about automating the switch to my hot water recirculator pump at least. I have a indirect water heater that is heated by the boiler that runs my hydronic heating system, so I don't need to shut off everything.

[sjenkins]

12 hours ago, Andy P said:

I was pondering the same question when building a new house - then I realized I have a well! And that means I just have to cut power to the well. So, I installed one of these GE Enbrighten 240 volt - 40 amp z-wave switches and trigger it with a leak sensor. (The well pump only uses a 20 amp circuit for those electricians wondering about the bx cable).

Nice setup.

I have a well (as well) and considered this option.  Went with the Yo-Link as it was cheaper and less wiring (and I'm an electrical engineer).  But I really appreciate this as the 'ideal' solution in many ways.  My well pump is 40A as its on-demand pressure so would have required a bit beefier setup.

[Andy P]

11 hours ago, sjenkins said:

Nice setup.

I have a well (as well) and considered this option.  Went with the Yo-Link as it was cheaper and less wiring (and I'm an electrical engineer).  But I really appreciate this as the 'ideal' solution in many ways.  My well pump is 40A as its on-demand pressure so would have required a bit beefier setup.

It must be the starting amps that are requiring 40A because most well pumps run less than 20 I believe. I also have a variable speed pressure maintaining setup using a Franklin Electric subdrive controller and a 2hp submerged well pump 300' deep. According to the tables, 2hp  240 VAC draws about 10amps but of course the starting current is higher.

[Merlin]

For the folks who are using the YoLink stuff... have you tried integrating the YoLink FlowSmart Water Meter? I am also looking at the DROP Home Protection Valve which also has an integrated water meter. It would be nice to have reporting on water flow, pressure loss, leaks, etc. if we decide to go with the YoLink option instead. I haven't found much info on the YoLink FlowSmart to know if it would meet my needs.

Thanks!

[DennisC]

On 12/3/2023 at 4:13 AM, Merlin said:

have you tried integrating the YoLink FlowSmart Water Meter?

Direct your question to @Panda88. He is the YoLink Plugin developer.

[Panda88]

The flow meter is new and I have not integrated it yet - Unfortunately they do not offer the pipe size I need 1 1/4 so I have not bought one yet.  If someone could give me access I can try to integrate it - It could be set up with a separate account I could use to access it 

 

[Merlin]

8 minutes ago, Panda88 said:

The flow meter is new and I have not integrated it yet - Unfortunately they do not offer the pipe size I need 1 1/4 so I have not bought one yet.  If someone could give me access I can try to integrate it - It could be set up with a separate account I could use to access it

 

Hi @Panda88. I also have 1-1/4 and I could have sworn that was listed as the upper end of size it supports. It might be worth checking again if you're also interested in taking a look at this unit.

[Panda88]

I only see 1 and 1 1/2 listed - can you send a link?

Christian

[Merlin]

26 minutes ago, Panda88 said:

I only see 1 and 1 1/2 listed - can you send a link?

Christian

 

Doh you're right. I must have confused the 1-1/2" and 1-1/4", though I think I was conflating it in my head with the Phyn Plus since that is the one that supports up to 1-1/4", while the YoLink goes up to 2" from what I can see. That said, I assume you'd have to re-plumb to add the flow meter anyway, so you could always just drop down to 1" or up to 1-1/2" just for that device if needs be.

Given I can find no reviews or user statements about the YoLink flow monitor, I'm looking at the StreamLabs, Phyn Plus, and DROP Home Protection Valve. I don't think any of those integrate with the ISY though, so I'd have to run an isolated ecosystem if I go with any of those. Obviously, I can use the remote valve operator without having a flow monitor, but it appeals to me to have the ability to detect leaks, pressure issues, and be able to monitor water use. So having a flow monitor would be preferred. A bonus of the DROP is that it interoperates with the DROP water softening/filtering system, which is an interesting option.

[Panda88]

you can get some functionality inside the ISY with Phyn using Alexa  or IFTTT 

I have not seen the Yolink flow meter functionality, but I guess it does not offer the triggers for leak detection (yet) - it seems there is a lot of learning involved to understand if something is a leak or just normal water use.  Otherwise you may get a lot of false triggers  

I have looked at  buying the YoLink electronics for the flow meter by it self, but I have not found a compatible 1 1/4 flow meter yet (needs to read the 0.01 gallon meter/indicator) - can only find for - readers on the 0.1 galon meter/indicator 

 

[larryllix]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:19 PM, beninsteon said:

has it not been noted with eISY as well?

Haven't followed that closely since eISY but haven't heard of it since new hardware came out and new drivers.