glacier991 Posted January 7 Posted January 7 My ISY has been quietly (and reliably) running in the background for a few years, aided by a Raspberry based Polyglot server I built. Meanwhile I have been doing other things ( like a major house remodel). Of late I upgraded my crappy internet ( all I could get until now) with a much better one. So, with my new internet, as I was running thru my apps, I decided to upgrade the ISY firmware, which was just a click in the my isy port. Bad idea. I killed my z-wave. But wait...might have been time to upgrade to Eisy. Read the curated post on that and decided to do that. A couple questions, I'd if I may. 1. I should get the z wave add on to service all my Z wave devices, yes? 2. My system backup can be the current system? Or do I need a pre upgrade one? (Have one). 3. Is this going to be a complete system rebuild? I can do that, just need to how much time I need to plan (and how much beer to buy.) Any general advice or links I should read in all this? Any help gratefully appreciated. Glacier991 aka Chris
glacier991 Posted January 7 Author Posted January 7 Oh, I should add that my system has a number of X-10 devices and I have an XTB-IIR I plan to install, and a spanking new Insteon2413S, which I note sports an RJ-45 Instead of the old RJ-13. It would be 25 Feet away from new Eisy. I did read the curated post. Very helpful in making my decision to upgrade, but now need to ask these questions. Thanks. Chris
Brian H Posted January 7 Posted January 7 (edited) Where did you see an RJ-13 used? The PLM both 2412S and 2413S used an RJ-45 style 8 pin connector. The 2414S PLC also has a RJ-45 style connector.The signals on the RJ-45 normally found on a network are not what they are in a PLM. They are serial signals on three wires. The others varied as the older 2412S also had a unregulated +12VDC (~18VDC) on it and could power an ISY994i or older ISY99i. While the 2413S has some pins being TTL level signals. Smarthome to me. Liked to keep parts the same over many devices. I have real ancient X10 only controller modules with the same RJ-45 I/O just completely different functions. Did more looking and may have found for the possible confusion.. The eisy uses a USB connection to a 2413U. You can use a 2413S with their USB to serial adapter. https://www.universal-devices.com/product/serial-plm-kit/ If you have a series 300 ZWave board and upgraded to the ones developed for the newer series 500 board. I suspect that may have caused your problem. Edited January 7 by Brian H Add information
paulbates Posted January 7 Posted January 7 There's a lot of moving parts here: 8 hours ago, glacier991 said: 1. I should get the z wave add on to service all my Z wave devices, yes? 2. My system backup can be the current system? Or do I need a pre upgrade one? (Have one). 3. Is this going to be a complete system rebuild? I can do that, just need to how much time I need to plan (and how much beer to buy.) 1. I don't have zwave, but if I did i would eventually go with the one UDI provides / recommends. I think what types if devices you have, their age influence this decision and other zwave users can comment further 2. & 3. This is where to be careful and "divide and conquer": If the upgrade didn't work, I'd be wary of the post upgrade backup. The unknowns here included what version of FW was the pre-upgrade and can it be used in the eisy migration. Need to look at the ISY docs and curated answers Having said that, what are the implications of adding a new zwave controller to the uncertain mix of events? I'd think about moving the current zwave dongle, if it works with the pre upgrade backup and move to the new dongle later as a separate step. Again, zwave users who have migrated to eisy can provide more guidance here. Document which slots plugins are currently installed in on the pi, for the sake of your programs you'll want to install them back where they started from once on eisy What PLM do you already have, how old is it and is it working? I would defer changing PLMs and adding the XTB until you get the eisy on its feet and your existing devices working... then make those 2 changes - one at a time. Changing PLMs takes time, can/will have hiccups that have to be manually fixed. This is especially true if you have a lot of Insteon wireless devices Do you have a lot of programs? I believe you can print them out or paste them in a google doc / word as reference. I'd do that and organize them by folder / function (rooms, indoor vs outdoor lighting, etc) I think if you get organized and have a plan you can avoid an entire rebuild, but be prepared for unexpected things that take longer and try to do it at a minimally disruptive time
Brian H Posted January 7 Posted January 7 (edited) A 6 Position 6 Conductor connector. With RJ13 being a 6 Position 6 Conductor connection with the outer pair of conductors unused. When using the X10 TW523 power line interface connections. A 8 Position 8 Conductor connector is the RJ45 style connector. Typically used in networking but customized by Smarthome for their PLM, PLC and other interfaces. To clarify. The XTB-IIR is an excellent X10 repeater phase coupler. The connector on the side is for a simulated X10 TW523 power line interface. I am using mine to connect to an all house code X10 RF receiver. Edited January 7 by Brian H add something. Update a statement
paulbates Posted January 7 Posted January 7 4 minutes ago, Brian H said: A 6 Position 6 Conductor connector. With RJ13 being a 6 Position 4 Conductor connection with the outer pair of conductors unused. Brian, I think maybe what is going on here is the X10 powerline interfaces were RJ13 / phone connectors.. and X10 is being used here.
Brian H Posted January 7 Posted January 7 (edited) 3 hours ago, paulbates said: Brian, I think maybe what is going on here is the X10 powerline interfaces were RJ13 / phone connectors.. and X10 is being used here. That does sound correct. The XTB-IIR has a simulated X10 TW523 interface on the side connector. RJ13 jack sounds correct. I have mine connected to an all house code X10 RF receiver. That normally used a TW523 interface. Edited January 7 by Brian H correct my error.
glacier991 Posted January 7 Author Posted January 7 (edited) My bad. Somehow I recalled the 2813s had an rj13. Clearly it does not. Sorry for the confusion. I am more and more thinking that I might just get the eisy and the z wave add on and just start from scratch on my build. One thing I would like to do is to put the eisy and zwave in a more central location in the house, and put the xtbrII near the circuit breakers, about 20 feet of cable run away. I have been using cat 6 in my house Ethernet wiring, but plan to use prebuilt shielded cat 8 for that run, for the main reason of shielding..it will cross through a very noisy environment. Anyone see problems with that long a run? Oh and, I will of course have to use UDI' interface cable and couple it into the cat 8 run. Anything I am not considering? Edited January 7 by glacier991 Errors
dbwarner5 Posted January 7 Posted January 7 My Polisy is on the second floor, my PLM in the basement, connected via ethernet. A very long run w/o any problems.
glacier991 Posted January 7 Author Posted January 7 Thanks. I could not imagine a problem but never hurts to seek experience. Appreciate the reply.
Brian H Posted January 8 Posted January 8 The XTB-IIR near the electrical panel is a good place for it. My ISY994i with 2413S PLM is on the other end of the house. Once the X10 signal reaches the XTB-IIR. The X10 signals in my home are all above ~ 1V X10 signals. Bonus is my WGL V572 all house code X10 RF receiver into the TW523 RJ13 port. On the side. Also gives me a good signal all over the house. As my Insteon devices are old enough to have an added X10 address in them.
glacier991 Posted January 8 Author Posted January 8 I have a WGL, and never included transferring it over to the XTB when i planned the XTB, which I am just now installing! Great idea. Thank you!
Brian H Posted January 8 Posted January 8 The cable between the XTB-IIR and the WGL V572. Maybe a phone style cable or a straight through cable. As I have two different versions of the WGL. Some used the phone style wired cable and the other one the straight trough wired cable. Wrong cable didn't seem to hurt anything. It just didn't work.
glacier991 Posted January 9 Author Posted January 9 (edited) Thanks Brian. First things first - I ordered my eisy, the matter z wave add on, and the USB serial cable to connect to my new (and supposedly "improved") Insteon PLM. So, I have done a bunch of reading up on bringing up the eisy, and I think it should be relatively straight forward. An awful lot of what I have read is applicable to a migration from an ISY994. I decided to just " take down and decommission" my ISY994i, and start over. My system was in its early stages and I have maybe 12 -15 programs, maybe 30 Z wave devices and another 15 or so Insteon and X-10 devices. It will not be a Herculean effort, and I think I will save some time avoiding headaches in the migration process. Any advice on the best way to decommission my old ISY993i ? I'd prefer it to disappear without a trace so to have a completely clean new install. once I have it working I will loop back and wire in and hook up the XTB and the transceiver. Edited January 9 by glacier991
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