New PLM many programs non-functioning

[fegelmej]

I had a small, but very stable Insteon system.  20 end-effectors of all varieties and versions, and 30ish programs.  I had to replace my PLM and now have lost functionality of many of the programs. Though I can control all of the fixtures with direct commands from the Main control window,  Some fixtures respond to some programs and not others.  Some fixtures work on a morning cycle, but not the evening cycle.  Some programs are directing scenes and some the fixtures themselves.  For instance, this program was working, now is not:

 

So, I rewrote it, and it still does not work:

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[paulbates]

You haven't mentioned how you did the replace... did you follow the Replace PLM procedure? Losing that much functionality suggests no.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:File_Menu#Restore_Modem_.28PLM.29

[fegelmej]

Thank you, Paul, for that.  I did follow those steps when initially installing the new PLM, but just to make sure, I deleted the new PLM and reinstalled it according to the Wiki instructions.  There is no change to my situation. 

I would just rewrite the programs, but it's strange to me that the test program I did write after the replacement is not performing either.  What am I missing?

Thanks for any guidance.

[Techman]

@fegelmej

Have you tried doing a RESTORE DEVICES which is in the file menu

 

Edited May 2 by Techman

[fegelmej]

So, I reset the PLM to factory settings and reinstalled according to the wiki instructions.  I reinstalled a stable ISY backup from a few months ago, and let things go.  No improvements.  As ISY sees all the devices and can control them, I think I'm going to wipe the programs and restart from scratch.  If anyone has a better idea, I'm all ears.

Thanks for the guidance so far.

[PGannon]

@fegelmej

 

Here are a couple of suggestions: 

• Try another electrical outlet for the PLM, then reboot.  I faced similar issues some time ago, and this solution helped me resolve more than 80% of them.
• Alter your IF THEN ELSE statement to IF  THEN (Repeat three times) ELSE (Repeat three times)
• Check into PROGRAMS over SCENE 

 

Let me know how it goes. 

Patrick 

[Geddy]

@fegelmej have you attempted to just run the “THEN” to see that it results with what you attempt? Right click on the first program you posted and click “Run THEN” (or some words similar to that). If the lights come on then check if your folder (maybe root folder) has conditions that are false and not allowing any programs to run. 

Seems that if ALL devices can be controlled with the new PLM installed then your communication is okay. Something is not allowing the programs to run. Check the “Summary” tab in the Program area and see if the programs are even “firing”. They should have a “Last run time” and “next run time” (something along those lines). 

Also, for future reference….the recommended way to share programs is to right click on the program then select “COPY to Clipboard”. You then paste TEXT into your forum post. This helps others help alter/edit the program if needed and also makes them searchable in case it might help others in the future. Some even suggest putting them in a code block (using the <> button in the editor line) but that’s not entirely necessary. 

Lastly, please confirm you’re running the same Firmware and UI. What firmware are you running on your ISY994? Find this in menu Help -> About.

[fegelmej]

Geddy, thanks for the insights.  I have tried running THEN statements, and the programs don't start.  I've used this technique in the past with success.  As to PGannon's point about moving to different outlets, I have done so many times in the past trying to get all devices "seen" the current configuration is the most stable and consistent. I looked at the program summary table, it's pretty empty! Enabled: On, Run at Startup - , Activity NOT SAVED, Status blank, Path (accurate), Last Run Time blank, Last Finish Time blank, Next Scheduled Run blank.  
So, I think your comment about "firing" is getting closer, but it doesn't make sense that some of the programs ARE running, yet not recorded in the summary.  But, even so, how do I get them to "fire'? 

I have no limiting conditions in the Summary window.  I am running the last supported firmware and UI 5.3.4

Thanks too for the point on forum etiquette regarding copy/paste programs.  Will do that in the future.  If etiquette allows, I'd be happy to share a screenshot of the summary page if that would help. 

Thanks to all.

[tazman]

Are the programs in a folder? It sounds like there is a folder with a condition that is not allowing the programs to run or else go into the program and select a line without changing anything update it and save changes to see if that gets things working again for you.

[paulbates]

I'm wondering if we're barking up the wrong tree. How old is the ISY and specifically the SD card?

[Geddy]

@fegelmej looks like @paulbates might be on to something. It's interesting that devices are controllable and you say some programs work, but some don't. Certainly could be a corrupt SD card as an option. But something seems off if you say programs work, but the summary is mostly empty. 

3 hours ago, fegelmej said:

I'd be happy to share a screenshot of the summary page if that would help

Might not help, but wouldn't hurt either. Have you checked the programs that do run? Where are they located in comparison to those that don't run? Do you have everything in the root folder or do you have a lot of folders and/or nested folders?

You say there's nothing in "enabled" and "run at startup". If that's the case then that program is disabled. 

This is a snip of my summary area. Sorted by Enabled. The top 2 programs are disabled and not set to run at startup. If I right click them in the summary tab and then enable it the "Enabled" column will show "On".

You should also be able to right click the program you want to test/trigger and select "Run If", "Run Then", or "Run Else". That should populate a "Last Run Time" and perhaps "Last Finish Time" if it's a single timed operation. 

What similarities are there between the programs that don't work compared to those that do work?

Like:

Don't work:  triggered at sunset, all have "from/to" time in IF, etc

Do work: single time trigger, single device trigger, etc

 

Another question is what are the icons appearance on the program tree?

Reference this wiki article for what the colors mean:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/ISY_Programs:Icon_Colors

 

Test program - make a super simple program that is device driven and test it from admin console.

example:

Simple Test - [ID ][Parent ]

If
        'Light1' Status is not Off
 
Then
        Set 'Light2' On
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

By using "status" in this program you don't have to physically flip a switch you can turn it on from admin console. Let us know if that test works when you change the status of "light1" (whichever device you choose). 

If that fires then the next test would be to make a time controlled program (like 3 minutes from when you test) just to turn on a simple switch. Not a from/to time, but just "Time is #:##:##PM"

Simple-Time - 

If
        Time is 12:54:00PM
 
Then
        Set 'Light2' On
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

[fegelmej]

Thanks fellas, I will continue to work through all of your suggestions.  The ISY is at least 12 years old (maybe closer to 15), and the SD card came with it.  Will keep this topic informed.  Really appreciate the help.

If you think the ISY/SD is bad/corrupted is there a test for that?

 

Here is the folder condition for My Programs.  All the sub folders are the same.

If
No conditions

Then
Allow the programs in this folder to run

Here is an abbreviated Summary table.  Just before taking this screenshot I instructed the THEN statement on the Entry Post Late.

Finally, ALL of the icons on the program details are solid green, though none of the THEN statements appear to be happening at the lights/devices.

 

 

 

 

[paulbates]

I'd say its good news / bad news:

• Good news - you got 12+ years of continuous, reliable service out of an electronic product. With the exception of a furnance, I don't have another example like it
• Bad news - if the sd card isn't bad, we're beyond the "writing on the wall" phase

Do you have a back up that's recent enough to be relevant, but old enough to be before the recent problems started?

Edited May 3 by paulbates

[Geddy]

28 minutes ago, fegelmej said:

Here is an abbreviated Summary table. 

I've not seen/noticed the "Not Saved" in the activity column before. Have you SAVED all the programs? Flip back to the programs screen and hit "SAVE CHANGED" at the bottom of the window.

I just created a program and didn't save it and it had that in the summary for that column. Once I clicked "Save Changes" that went away. Seems that you've made some changes to programs and they need to be saved.

32 minutes ago, fegelmej said:

If you think the ISY/SD is bad/corrupted is there a test for that?

No test (that I know of). It's a fairly simple system and no real way to take the card out and put into something else to test for corruption.

Review the wiki for the replacement step:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Replacing/Formatting_an_SD_Card

NOTE: The ISY994 takes the MicroSD card size. 

[fegelmej]

Both of those simple programs work on a variety of fixtures. 

When I saved the new simple program, all of the icons updated, and are accurate

In the summary table I did get entries for Last Run Time and Last Finish Time on the simple program.  And, after running the simple programs a few times, without any major changes, I See Next Scheduled Run is populated for all of the programs. 

We broke something free I think!

Does this situation make you think hardware?  Is it as simple as changing out the SD card?

[Geddy]

@fegelmej if you noticed the summary screen you posted had a lot of "Not Saved" issues. I think when you saved a new program it saved everything and that fixed it. Not sure how so many were in that phase of "not saved", but if you've added/recreated a lot of programs that's clearly the issue that they just weren't saved.

1 minute ago, fegelmej said:

Is it as simple as changing out the SD card?

I was coming back to edit my last post in saying like @paulbates suggests...you've gotten a lot of useful life out of the original SD card on an ISY994. Many people have probably had to replace a couple within 12 years because of use. I would make a backup now and keep it handy (maybe store it on a cloud drive for future availability). 

I've not ever had to replace the SD card on the ISY994 so can't suggest blindly doing that. Although it might be worth considering if you think you had issues leading up to this issue with programs. But I'd let it run over the weekend to see if the programs run as you expect. It could just be saving them cleared everything up.

Question - Do you leave admin console open all the time or do you close it when you're not needing it? My suggestion is always to close admin console when you don't need it. Make your adjustments and get out of the system. No need to leave it running 24/7. 

[fegelmej]

Geddy, I'm not really sure Not saving was the issue, as I had not updated any programs.  Or, at least updating wasn't the cause.  This is feeling very hardware-y.  I do not leave admin console open, in fact, until this PLM upgrade, I can't remember the last time I worked with it as the system had been so stable.

I think, to @paulbates point 12-15 years of always-on tech is pretty damn good.  If I continue to have problems, I will just upgrade to the Eisy.

Thanks again for all of your help.  

[fegelmej]

@geddy and @paulbates.  Well, a final note on this issue.  After a stable evening of many programs running, I woke to find none of the lights were turned off.  Went to fire up the Admin Console, and no ISY found.  Re-booted the ISY a few times.  Nada.  So, I'm pretty sure it's a hardware thing.  I'll be ordering an EISY today, but as I happen to have a 32Mb micro card sitting here, I'll try repairing the ISY.  Will let you know if that solves anything. 

[Techman]

@fegelmej

Try removing the SD card and clean its contacts with a soft eraser.  The contacts can sometimes oxidize which can cause issues. If that doesn't improve things then the card should be replaced with a high quality card.

[Brian H]

One caution.

ISY994i powered off. Removing the SD card with power on would probably damage it.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Replacing/Formatting_an_SD_Card

Edited May 4 by Brian H

[djones1415]

Was this ever resolved?

Same problem after replacing PLM!

[Geddy]

@djones1415 no update from OP for over a month. You should start a new post for your issue to get help directly. If you’ve tried all above suggestions it is probably a different issue and should be handled as a new thread. 

[Techman]

@djones1415

When you rplaced the PLM did you follow the "replace plm procedures"? 

see attached

 

Replace PLM.pdf

[BCreekDave]

8 hours ago, djones1415 said:

Was this ever resolved?

Same problem after replacing PLM!

Yeah, me too. Pretty much the exact same issue. I replaced the PLM and things seemed to be ok, but over the last month or so programs have been steadily getting worse. Programs that used to run great, started getting more and more latency. Motion sensors that used to fire the lights instantly now take a minute or two and then never turn the light off. Checking the event log shows most all devices having 3 of 3 or worst 2 of 3 hops left.  Bought a couple of noise filters and installed them in various spots and no better. Next I guess I will try swapping the SD card. The one in there is the original that’s about 10 years old so maybe.