Replacing PLM 2413s with new PLM 2413s

[JCDinPGH]

I have had a working ISY994 with a PLM model 2413s for many years now. Recently, what I thought was due to a power outage, my PLM appears to be fried and not re ofnized by my ISY994 anymore. I ordered a new one and followed the following procedure to replace it 

Unplugged ISY994

Unplugged old PLM (2413s)

Swapped old PLM with new one meaning power supply cable and serial cable (which looks like an Ethernet cable)

Plugged in PLM

Waited 15 seconds

Plugged in ISY994. 

Logged into the ISY994 and clicked on restore PLM. 

The error I get says no PLM connected 0 0.0 0. And no config file found.

Diagnoatics also doesn't see the new PLM. 

What am I missing? I'm kind of thinking the problem isn't with the PLM at all and wondering if my old PLM might still work but for now, I just want my system back up and working so leaving the new PLM connected. I doubt the serial cable went bad but I guess that is a possibility. 

I haven't been able to control any of my devices in over a week. Going slightly crazy. 

Ideas?

[hart2hart]

Sounds like it may not have done the replace.

What do you mean by power supply cable for new PLM? 2413s only has a serial data cable and plugs into a AC outlet. For serial data cable, did you pull new one from box or use one that was with old PLM?

Also, a few people have accidentally purchased 2413u instead of 2413s as it comes first on Insteon.com.


Also you say ISY didn’t recognize old PLM and symptoms you describe indicates ISY doesn’t recognize new one so could be the ISY.

[JCDinPGH]

1 hour ago, hart2hart said:

By power supply I meant the plug. I used the original cable from the original PLM which looks like an Ethernet cable on both sides, although I know it isn't really an Ethernet cable. The new PLM did come with a cable that has an Ethernet connection on one side and what looks like a serial modem connection on the other. My isy994 only has what looks like two Ethernet ports. One for the actual network, and the other for the cable to the PLM. I definitely received a 2413S not U. I never thought about the problem being the ISY itself. If that's the case, I will be dumping it and moving into other independent wifi plugs as I have no intention of starting all over with a new controller. Is there any way to verify the problem is actually the ISY and not the PLM(s)?

Sounds like it may not have done the replace.

What do you mean by power supply cable for new PLM? 2413s only has a serial data cable and plugs into a AC outlet. For serial data cable, did you pull new one from box or use one that was with old PLM?

Also, a few people have accidentally purchased 2413u instead of 2413s as it comes first on Insteon.com.


Also you say ISY didn’t recognize old PLM and symptoms you describe indicates ISY doesn’t recognize new one so could be the ISY.

 

[JCDinPGH]

The actual error I am receiving is below. Couldn't post it before a I wasn't home. 

[Brian H]

The cable between the ISY994i and the RJ45 style serial port on the PLM. Is a standard network cable. So trying  new one should not be too hard. Mine came with a 3' Cat5E. I am using a 6' Cat 5E from my ISY994i and the PLM.

The SID message could mean the SD card in the ISY994i is corrupt or failing. There are some reports of that also.

Edited August 13 by Brian H
fix a statement

[JCDinPGH]

It's looking more and more like I'm screwed. I followed the procedure to replace the sdcard and it seemed to work fine. Without doing a restore of my backup, I tried to see if the ISY could see either PLM and it can't. Unless there is some way to fix the ISY connection to the PLM, I am thinking that my ISY is now useless.  It has been pretty rock solid since 02/2016 and I was really hoping that replacing the 2413s, since they seem to have had hardware issues in the early days, would solve my problem. There is the possibility that the new 2413s PLM I just purchased is also bad but that seems unlikely. 

[paulbates]

I don't think you're screwed. Submit a ticket and udi will help you resuscitate it. You might have to pay something as the 994i end-of-life product wise.

https://www.universal-devices.com/my-tickets/

The alternative is to consider moving to the eisy.... As you've had 8 years of use which is a very long time for most electronic things

Edited August 14 by paulbates

[JCDinPGH]

48 minutes ago, paulbates said:

I don't think you're screwed. Submit a ticket and udi will help you resuscitate it. You might have to pay something as the 994i end-of-life product wise.

https://www.universal-devices.com/my-tickets/

The alternative is to consider moving to the eisy.... As you've had 8 years of use which is a very long time for most electronic things

I opened a ticket. Hopefully they have an idea. I will gladly pay for support if needed. It can't be as much as a new EISY, I hope. Thanks much.

[JCDinPGH]

Support replied and suggested I make sure the connection from the ISY to the PLM was good. And if that doesn't fix it, it is probably the isy994 and they suggest I return the 2413s PLM and order the 2413u PLM if I plan on migrating to the eisy. 

I see lots of isy994s for sale on eBay for much less than a new eisy. Assuming they are fully functioning, is it easy to migrate all of my customizations on my isy994 to a different isy994 after upgrading the firmware to make the versions match? 

[paulbates]

Relatively. You'll need a backup to restore on the me isy. And then complete the move to the new plm.

The cable is a likely culprit and needs to be proven out

[JCDinPGH]

1 hour ago, paulbates said:

Relatively. You'll need a backup to restore on the me isy. And then complete the move to the new plm.

The cable is a likely culprit and needs to be proven out

Originally I didn't realize it wasn't a special cable but since finding that out, I have tried 3 different cat5e cables. No changes to the issues posted above. It is looking more and more like the problem is on the isy994 itself unfortunately. Very frustrating. 

[paulbates]

The 994i is an end-of-life product No more software updates / fixes for it. No growth. Newer node servers, integrations won't work. IIRC, the new Insteon i3 switch products don't work, or not all features work with the 994i.

I moved last summer from my house that I had my 994i at. I had finished automation around 2016, so I probably would have replaced it with a 994i if it died as my automation wasn't going anywhere. Now I'm at that point with the house I moved to, I've pretty much finished other than a few Insteon n-ways which won't need the eisy once set up. But I plan to be here ~10 years.

The point is I'm looking for this eisy to get me through that time and not go through another system rebuild, supported and updated for most of it.

[Brian H]

Long shot here.

We have seen strange things happen when the wall wart supply starts to fail. You may want to just try one and see. ISY994i has a wide input voltage range. UDI last time I looked was selling a 12VDC 2A. My originals where 5VDC 500mA or 1A

[Brian H]

If you can get into the Help Info Tab on your present ISY994i. It will tell you what you now have. So you can see what the ones on the auction sites have. Like the Pro and other add on features are in them. Pro adds more link and scene space you can use in the ISY994i and also allows you to turn on and off automatic updates. Your present ISY994i  may also have other ones like Networking.  So features you now use will still work if you get a replacement ISY994i.

[JCDinPGH]

1 hour ago, Brian H said:

If you can get into the Help Info Tab on your present ISY994i. It will tell you what you now have. So you can see what the ones on the auction sites have. Like the Pro and other add on features are in them. Pro adds more link and scene space you can use in the ISY994i and also allows you to turn on and off automatic updates. Your present ISY994i  may also have other ones like Networking.  So features you now use will still work if you get a replacement ISY994i.

Do licenses not transfer when doing a restore on a newer ISY994 with a backup from my old ISY?

Essentially I am only controlling Insteon devices with the exception of one device with the Networking Model (a Yamaha receiver) which I have a workaround.  

The modules I have installed are:

OpenADR

Networking Module

A10/X10 for Insteon (which i don't care about. I only have one X10 device)

Portal Integration

[Techman]

As of 6/01/2023 modules can no longer be added to the ISY, however you may be able to transfer your modules for a fee. Contact UD Support

Final Goodbye to ISY994 Series - Universal Devices - News (universal-devices.com)

 

[Brian H]

The modules are tied to the ISY994i's UUID number. That is different for each ISY994i.

If you buy a used one ask the seller exactly what it has in it. You may find a similar set of modules in the replacement.

The backup has the scenes, programs and setting in it. I don't believe the backup has the firmware and installed modules. My backup files also have the title with the UUID in it and my second ISY994i has its UUID in the backup's title. I will try a test if I can. To see if a backup from one ISY994i worked on  second ISY994i. If both have the same set of modules them.

Edited August 15 by Brian H
Change information

[mango]

Late to the party.

 

I may be able to help you. I have quite a few ISY994s I don't really need most of them. I acquired quite a few when I bought Insteon lots over the last few years, they came with everything. Let me know if interested I could probably find one spec'd the same as you use now. I live in Canada if shipping is a concern.

[Brian H]

Did a test with my spare ISY994i. Using a backup from my main ISY994i.
Spare does not have the Networking Module installed. PRO,A10/X10 are on both. Also no installed Insteon modules in the spare.
The backup for the main unit did program the spare. Including the Insteon modules in the main unit.
Insteon modules didn't respond to tests as the PLM on the spare has a different six digit ID.
The Networking Module did not get installed from the main unit backup.
Password from the main unit did transfer to the spare.
As did the name of the ISY994i.
As my main one was an early one called My Lighting and the spare ISY.

I don't think an ISY994i that includes the PRO add on. Would be a problem. As it adds more space for programs and scenes. Control of automatic writes to changes to the system. Going the other way may make a difference if the original with PRO had more programs and scenes in it than one without the PRO.

 

Edited August 15 by Brian H
Add information

[Guy Lavoie]

This discussion raises a good question: what happens if you restore a backup to a different ISY994i that doesn't have a module that the original had? Does the restore fail? For example, if I had the X10 module and I try to restore to a unit that doesn't have it, what happens in the programs? 

[Brian H]

If the restore from a unit with the A10/X10 to one with out the A10/X10 module. It probably would go through but if the A10/X10 module's features where being used by the old ISY994i. It could cause issues.

Though that module was cosmetic and allowed X10 and A10 module to be seen in the console tree.

Data on the A10/X10 feature.  Just the info. Being available now is over. Since the ISY994i is discontinued a few years ago.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/ISY-994i_Series_INSTEON:Enhanced_A10/X10

We have seen issues with a backup from a PRO on one with no PRO. If the scene and programming information was larger than the standard unit was using.

I don't have any thoughts on the. Portal Integration module.

 

Edited August 15 by Brian H
Add information

[JCDinPGH]

To be clear, this is all good information but I don't care about the X10 module. I only have 1 X10 device and it was buggy at best. The only modules I need are

Portal integration

Openadr

Networking 

I have a slew of Insteon modules but I'm honestly starting to think of just replacing them with wifi equivalents which don't need any sort of hub at all and I can put them on schedules via Amazon Alexa. Even the insteon garage opener can be replaced what appears to be fairly easy for roughly $30. Still researching though and haven't committed to any solution yet. 

 

 

[Brian H]

Openadr was standard in every ISY994i

Portal Integration and Networking where purchased added modules. You can no longer purchase them and if you want to transfer it from one to a different one. The end of service post. Seemed to indicate they would do it for $125.

I only used the A10/X10 module as an example. I don't know how many here actually have it.

Now over on the X10 forums. Where I am a Community Advisor,  I have seen some using an ISY99i or ISY994i exclusively for X10.

[Geddy]

4 hours ago, JCDinPGH said:

The only modules I need are

Portal integration

Openadr

Networking 

If I recall doesn't the Portal integration includes the Networking module. So they aren't as separate as they used to be. 

But as said above it's no longer add modules to an existing ISY994. I am not sure if that includes signing up a device for the UD Portal though. It might be best to contact UD directly (https://www.universal-devices.com/contact-us/) or open a support ticket to get clarification of what (if anything) can be added. You can open a support ticket here: https://www.universal-devices.com/my-tickets/

Better to get what can or can't be done straight from the source (UD) rather than assumptions reached from these posts. 

My guess is, since support has ended for ISY994, it might not be possible to setup a new portal account for a "new to you" ISY994. 

 

[IndyMike]

6 hours ago, JCDinPGH said:

To be clear, this is all good information but I don't care about the X10 module. I only have 1 X10 device and it was buggy at best. The only modules I need are

Portal integration

Openadr

Networking 

I have a slew of Insteon modules but I'm honestly starting to think of just replacing them with wifi equivalents which don't need any sort of hub at all and I can put them on schedules via Amazon Alexa. Even the insteon garage opener can be replaced what appears to be fairly easy for roughly $30. Still researching though and haven't committed to any solution yet. 

 

 

Please perform your due diligence before jumping to a new technology/protocol.  You're accustomed to Insteon and it's very different from the "other" protocols. 

Rather than jade you with my preconceptions, I would encourage you to read up on WIFI, Zigbee and Zwave protocols.  They all have their + and - and I use all of them. 

Insteon is extremely effective for lighting (scenes and the like).  Very few other protocols can match it.

Other protocols are far better at security and power (battery devices).