I messed up PLM eisy integration – BADLY – now what?

[zorax2]

Hate to admit it but – eisy was getting worse and worse executing commands. Lights weren’t turning on when doors were opened (Elk integration), voice commands via Alexa were spotty / inconsistent, etc.

It was a late night after a rough day, lights weren’t working again with voice commands and then frustrated and clearly not thinking, I removed the existing PLM and attached a new PLM… My overworked brain somehow diagnosed that the old PLM was the problem and plugging in a new PLM would fix it.

Stupid – I know…. Everything is a mess and the new PLM isn’t talking with the devices.

I’m currently running IoX version 5.8.4. My last backup was v5.8.0. in March of 2024. Not too smart. I’m thinking the backup may have been either before upgrading the firmware version or when I went from a 994 to the eisy.

Since that backup, I have replaced some Insteon switches for various reasons.

I also likely did some additional programming since that backup.

Today, I went to the Administrative Console and did screenshots of virtually everything – especially programming syntax.

I read in the forum that depending on the restoration process used, I could end up with orphan links slowing down the system.

I’m guessing I probably have at least 50 light switches (mostly 2477D switches and 2344 5 button keypads), a bunch of 2476ST SwitchLinc Relays, LampLink devices, 2365 On/Off Modules, 2475F FanLincs. I’m using Elk and Timedata plugins and use integration with Alexa. I also have some access points in a couple places around the house (don’t know if they help or not given switches are dual band).

Before I mess things up even more, what do I do next?

Restore ISY, Restore Modem (PLM), Delete Modem (PLM) and then Restore ISY followed by Restore Modem?

Thanks in advance for recommendations!

[DennisC]

50 minutes ago, zorax2 said:

removed the existing PLM and attached a new PLM

When replacing a PLM, you need to follow all of the directions from here:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:File_Menu#Restore_Modem_.28PLM.29

Start with following the directions.

[TJF1960]

My two cents from reading your post. If all you did was swap PLMs, and you did not do a remove or restore plm then I think you should immediately do an IoX backup and PGx backup. Running a topology report (admin console>Tools>Generate Topology) will be beneficial as well.

Note, hot swapping plm is not great but at this point, leave the new plm attached and get your backups first. Then power down, swap plm back to the old one and reboot. Then do some troubleshooting. 

-Tim

[zorax2]

Thanks @TJF1960- I had already done IoX backup, PGx backup with the new PLM. Also did topology report and saved to PDF files.

I already started @DennisC process prior to your message.

 

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

[TJF1960]

Awesome, fingers crossed!

[zorax2]

 

Unfortunately, no luck with the Replace Modem (PLM) steps. I had the series of nodes with green 1011 icons. I tried Right mouse click | Write pending updates... for several devices and all failed.

I then followed the steps for “Restore Devices”. I believe every single device had a red ! exclamation sign. For each device with green 1011 icons, I did Write updates to device which didn’t work.

I think every device had the error box “Failed Communicating With” – Cannot Communicate With “Device Name”. Please check connections.

However, some devices with the red ! exclamation point could be toggled on / off from the Administrator Console though the commands to turn on or off took about 4 to 5 seconds to occur then I would get the “Cannot Communicate with “Device Name” error.

Note:

One possible wrinkle is the “new” replacement PLM modem is a 2413S V2.2 1629 that I sent in for re-capping and upgrading to Nilachi Data Systems in 2023 when there was concern about the viability of Insteon and getting parts. The PLM Info/Status shows connected.

To test this PLM modem, I factory defaulted a spare switch 2334-2, pressed the Set button on the switch for 3-5 seconds and the “New Insteon Devices” dialog box appeared with the Status “To Be Added” with the correct address of the switch. I added the device and then turned it on and off via the Administrative Console and then removed it. Given that was all successful I don’t think the connection issues are due to the new PLM.

Would the next step be to try this again by factory resetting the PLM, going through the Replace Modem (PLM) instructions and steps and followed by Restore Devices procedure?

Would the next step be to try this again by factory resetting the PLM, going through the Replace Modem (PLM) instructions and steps and followed by Restore Devices procedure?

And, if that doesn’t work, do I simply factory reset every switch and device and rebuild the system? I’ve saved the topology and took screenshots of all scenes. I also took screenshots of all the programs and of the configuration for the PG3 apps for Elk and TimeData. The Alexa integration is a bit of a headscratcher given the commands are tied to specific scenes or devices though I can try to delete all of those prior to resetting anything else. I’m just wondering if starting from scratch puts me in an overall better place knowing all internal device links are correct and perhaps saves time vs. troubleshooting. Each refresh and change takes a long time likely due to retrying each communication before timing out.

[apostolakisl]

It sounds like your plm isn't working or your connection between eisy and plm is no good.  Regardless of how screwed up your links may or not be, when you write to devices, eisy will write the links assuming you are able to communicate with the devices.  And you are not communicating.

Check under tools/diagnostics/plm info

Make sure it lists your plm and says connected.

I suppose it is also possible that something is so awful in your network that even though the plm is connected and working, there is so much noise that it can't talk to a single device.  unlikely to say the least, but I suppose possible.

Edited yesterday at 07:15 PM by apostolakisl

[zorax2]

The PLM info status shows connected. I moved my EISY and PLM to an outlet right next to the service panel (they had been further away in a mechanical room). I installed an access point on the other leg in another outlet near the panel. I also added one more access point further away as we have a large house. Moving things to next to the panel didn’t seem to improve things.

The cookbook mentioned counting the number of links with the 2413s being limited to around 900 links. The count was 615 for my system.

@apostolakisl You mentioned that perhaps the devices not communicating. Would my troubleshooting of successfully adding and removing the 2334-2 switch suggest that the eisy and PLM are working correctly?

 

[Techman]

If the 2334 Switch added then your PLM and its connection is good.

How old was the backup that you used to do your restore backup with? Was that backup made with your current PLM?

If you backup is current then you can try doing a factory reset on the PLM, then a Restore PLM

[zorax2]

I did some more forum searching regarding noise and forgot that I had two UPSs that I’ve been using for a long time. I had some extra Filterlincs in my spares kit and plugged the UPSs into the bottom filtered outlet. @TechmanInterestingly, I think some of the noise troubleshooting posts were actually yours.

My latest isy backup was in March 2024 with firmware version 5.8.0 with eisy (not my old 994). I imagine I made that backup prior to upgrading to version 5.8.4 which I’m currently using.

That backup was not made with the PLM that I posted in the previous post. It was made with the backup of the PLM I removed from the system.

I already gave it a go with the new PLM with the current results. Now that I moved the eisy next to the electrical panel, does it make sense to:

1^st: Do another factory reset on the PLM and do the Replace Modem procedure
2^nd: Follow with the Restore ISY procedure and Restore Devices (restore my backup and then Restore Devices)?

[apostolakisl]

7 minutes ago, zorax2 said:

I did some more forum searching regarding noise and forgot that I had two UPSs that I’ve been using for a long time. I had some extra Filterlincs in my spares kit and plugged the UPSs into the bottom filtered outlet. @TechmanInterestingly, I think some of the noise troubleshooting posts were actually yours.

My latest isy backup was in March 2024 with firmware version 5.8.0 with eisy (not my old 994). I imagine I made that backup prior to upgrading to version 5.8.4 which I’m currently using.

That backup was not made with the PLM that I posted in the previous post. It was made with the backup of the PLM I removed from the system.

I already gave it a go with the new PLM with the current results. Now that I moved the eisy next to the electrical panel, does it make sense to:

1^st: Do another factory reset on the PLM and do the Replace Modem procedure
2^nd: Follow with the Restore ISY procedure and Restore Devices (restore my backup and then Restore Devices)?

So if indeed you had amazing amount of noise in your network that you have now removed.  You should be able to restore you plm and you made need to do a restore devices as well.  If you have a backup of isy that is current, you could start from scratch.

1) Restore backup

2) Plug in PLM (if not already) and reboot

3)Confirm PLM attached via tools/diagnostics/plm info,

4) Factory Reset PLM (shouldn't be needed, but why not)

5) Restore PLM

 - note if you are restoring the plm and it is not the same plm as you were using when you made the backup, then it will need to write to all of your devices.  I would set the isy to not do wireless devices at this time if you have any by clicking off that icon, also, disable any devices that are not currently plugged in/working so as to not slow down the restore.

3) Restore Devices if needed (same stuff in the note section applies here)

 

 

[Techman]

@zorax2

After you get everything working and cleaned up do an eisy backup. Anytime you update firmware, devices, or programs always do a backup, it only takes a few seconds.

You should also update to the current firmware which has bug fixes and program improvements

 

Edited yesterday at 09:11 PM by Techman

[zorax2]

@apostolakisl Thank you for listing the full procedure in order for me in the order to try. 

I did vary my factory reset a bit by unplugging everything, then plugging in the PLM with the button held to do a factory reset.

I then removed the PLM from the outlet 30 seconds after the factory reset.

Next I plugged the eisy back in (while the PLM was still unplugged) and then restored the backup. After the reboot, I logged into the eisy again to ensure the restore went correctly.

I then unplugged the eisy and followed the instruction sheet for Replace Modem. I was trying to cover all the bases in terms of resetting the PLM and making sure the backup was restored properly prior to moving on.

I'm now waiting for the system to initialize.

@Techman Thank you for mentioning to disable devices not being used - I hadn't thought of that. I also don't have any wireless devices so that should also make things a bit easier.

[zorax2]

@Techman I'm definitely learning a hard lesson about backups on the eisy.

I kick myself because I do a 3-2-1 backup strategy with all my other data. I even use two cloud services to supplement my NAS and offsite data storage. Most of that backup process is fully automated so I don't have to even think about it much other than to check it periodically.

To give you context as to how I got in this pickle (it wasn't alcohol), I was in a bad accident a couple weeks ago and broke my scapula / shoulder blade  in multiple places (one of the hardest bones in the body to break) and fractured multiple ribs. Doing anything simply hurts a lot and I've got at least 12 weeks of physical therapy ahead of me.

I had been using voice commands with everything and haven't touched a light switch for years. Then the system gets slow or doesn't execute commands properly.

It's hard to sleep with fractured ribs and when voice commands stopped working my brained turned off and I started this mess out of frustration as I didn't want to keep moving around to go to switches.

My little PLM endeavour added a bit more misery to the whole situation by not backing up properly but hopefully I can get things going on this attempt. 

[apostolakisl]

You can tell if the links are writing by watching the pop up window.  Unfortunately, ISY doesn't make it obvious, but if you watch the small print writing in the bottom left corner of the pop up window, it will show you the traffic that is going on.  It will show you all kinds of random traffic, but if you watch it will show link numbers.  If every few seconds you see a that number has gone up (ignoring other random other messages in between), that is a good sign.  If you keep seeing it stuck on the same number, not good.

Also, the devices on the left window will start returning one by one to their normal appearance without any 1011, exclamation points, or other.

[zorax2]

 

@apostolakisl I'm going to follow up reading your post in a minute. Simultaneously, I put my progress to this point below.

 

Well – no luck again after doing Replace PLM and the Restore Devices. Red ! exclamation marks next to every device. The Restore Devices Wiki says you might need to do the process multiple times for new devices so I’m in the process of doing that.

I’m at a real loss that I’m not establishing communication with the existing devices.

Again for troubleshooting purposes, I took a factory reset switch on a pigtail and went to the spot in our house (large house) farthest from the panel. Put the eisy in linking mode and added the switch without any problems. From the Administrative Console, on/off commands work almost instantaneously.

This a brief log from turning the switch on an off and nothing seems strange to me from my limited understanding of these things:

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:12 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 28 A2 F4 0F 13 00

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:12 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 28.A2.F4 0F 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00)

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:12 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 28.A2.F4 43.71.52 2B 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)
Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:12 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 28.A2.F4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:12 PM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [28 A2 F4 1] [ST] [0] uom=100 prec=0

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:12 PM : [28 A2 F4 1      ]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:15 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 28 A2 F4 0F 11 FF

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:15 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 28.A2.F4 0F 11 FF 06          LTONRR (FF)

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:15 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 28.A2.F4 43.71.52 2B 11 FF    LTONRR (FF)

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:15 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 28.A2.F4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:15 PM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [28 A2 F4 1] [ST] [255] uom=100 prec=0

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:15 PM : [28 A2 F4 1      ]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:15 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 28.A2.F4 43.71.52 23 11 FF    LTONRR (FF)

Tue 08/12/2025 06:51:15 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 28.A2.F4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

It just makes no sense the other devices aren’t communicating.

Any other ideas?

[zorax2]

5 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

You can tell if the links are writing by watching the pop up window.  Unfortunately, ISY doesn't make it obvious, but if you watch the small print writing in the bottom left corner of the pop up window, it will show you the traffic that is going on.  It will show you all kinds of random traffic, but if you watch it will show link numbers.  If every few seconds you see a that number has gone up (ignoring other random other messages in between), that is a good sign.  If you keep seeing it stuck on the same number, not good.

Also, the devices on the left window will start returning one by one to their normal appearance without any 1011, exclamation points, or other.

It seems as though what you described is happening in a good way. I currently have a device in the Restore Device procedure at Link 52 and counting.

It appears that things are writing as that in many of the small print messages. It says things like "Writing High Water Byte" Memory: Write, Writing Controller as it continues though the small writing of changes goes very fast so it's hard to keep up as it keeps going through the process so fast.

I do see an error message like ERR 0 or ERR 1 occassionally but not with every device - again the text showing the changes move too fast to keep up with it..

[zorax2]

Some good news - finally. I did another Restore Devices and some of the devices are now communicating. I think I'll run Restore Devices a couple of more times to see what happens and maybe I'll get lucky and make some more progress.

[zorax2]

Everything back up and running!

I'm a bit puzzled why I got so many devices marked cannot communicate even when I could see they were being written to. Additionally, I could operate the devices from the Admin Console in many cases. Nevertheless, the below steps worked.

Following all of your advice:

I did a factory reset of PLM

I followed the Replace Modem (PLM) instructions

I then followed the Restore Devices procedure (Weird quirk on Wiki in that a search does not find it. I think there are a number of great procedures and explanations on the Wiki that seemingly don't show up with search function)

I ran the Restore Device procedure at least 4 times and each time a few more devices popped up with the green 1011 icon. I then used the Write Updates to Device.

Went to Java and deleted the applet and temp files each time before doing the Restore Device procedure.

This time around I made sure to backup everything - programs, IOX, PG3, etc.

Everything seems to be working perfectly and all devices are responsive without delays.

Again, thank you for your help - I couldn't have done it without all of your great advice!

 

 

[apostolakisl]

Good to hear it is all working again.  But something isn't right with your communication.  It shouldn't have struggled to do write to those devices, and required multiple attempts.  Perhaps your PLM is weak or perhaps you have signal suckers or noise makers on your network.