Tweakers delight! Or is that tweak the light?

After adding that GE Cync bulb back into my eisy (to help out another poster in a different thread) I started poking around in admin console to see what I could do with it. I hadn't really experimented with Matter since the initial excitement last spring. I had seen something about a color control cluster for Matter in the release notes for 6.0.3. Let's just say that they went all out with the options! I'm still trying to get familiar with what everything does.

Here is a sampling of the screens for the three nodes that got created for the bulb.

The On-Off Switch node:

The Color XY node:

The Color Hue-Sat node:

Notice the scroll bar on the right? Too much to fit on one screen!

You'll notice the Duration and Rate settings, allowing you to set the time for the settings to "morph" to the new values. This takes programmability to the next level 😊

The color XY setting might be unfamiliar to most of us (myself included). We might be more used to the RGB method with values from 0 to 255 for each color. XY settings correspond to coordinates on a color chart, and are fractional (decimal settings). I found the following page, which is really helpful for this. It has the color chart, and a RGB to XY (or vice versa) utility:

https://viereck.ch/hue-xy-rgb/

Enjoy!

Edited February 4Feb 4 by Guy Lavoie

Being on a roll, I thought I'd also try the Nanoleaf bulb. This is a Thread device, and not known for being easy to work with. I already had it configured and working in Alexa, So I generated a pairing code in Alexa and tried adding it in UD Mobile. Nope, getting an error code. Ok...plan B was to share it from Alexa to Google home first, and then from Google home to UD Mobile. That worked 🙂 I think that Google home and UD Mobile are Facebook friends!

The interview process took noticeably more time than the Cync bulb did, a good minute it seemed. And the end result was only an On Off device node, no color or hue nodes. Even though the Nanoleaf bulb is a color bulb. Btw you can redo Matter interviews by right clicking on the device node and selecting Matter -> Synchronize -> Update with Interview (tell us about yourself, how long have you been a light bulb?). I tried that but it remained just an On Off device.

If I set the ramp rate to a slow value and turn it on, it comes up in a fast series of stepped intensities, looks like blinking. I suspect that it's the bulb firmware more than anything else since these are known to be difficult with compatibility. The same commands were smooth on the Cync bulb. I looked up the bulb in the Nanoleaf app to see if it would alert me to any firmware updates. Nope.

But still, now the Nanoleaf bulb works everywhere: Alexa, Google home, UD Mobile, and in the Nanoleaf app. We're getting there!

Having discovered the possibility to rerun the Matter device Interview, I relaunched the interview on one of the Philips Hue bulb nodes (when you share to Matter from the Hue app, all devices get shared at once). I had initially shared them many months ago in Matter testing, and only had device On Off nodes. Lo and behold, the new interview updated all the Philips Hue devices, adding all the color and hue nodes for the lights with those capabilities. That's great, and reinterviewing sure beats deleting and adding back devices.

Hue White bulbs give you On Off nodes (with dimming)

Hue White Ambiance give you On Off, and Color Temperature nodes

Hue White and Color give you On Off, Color Hue-Sat, and Color XY nodes

This now leaves Hue bulbs with two ways to control them: from the Hue plugin, or directly as Matter devices. The Hue plugin offers three ways of setting the color (RGB, XY, or color name). while Matter only has XY. There is also a third way to control Hue bulbs, as Zigbee devices, but that doesn't give you all those options, and I believe cannot be done simultaneously as Zigbee and controlled by the Hue hub.

Just to add to tested devices: I got a GE Cync smart plug. I was at the hardware store for something else and thought I'd take a quick look at the smart devices (mostly bulbs). Not all GE Cync products are Matter compatible, you need to look at the boxes carefully.

Again, it wouldn't add directly in UD Mobile, but adding it to Google home first and then sharing it worked, though it took two attempts.

I also noted that Ikea will be selling Matter compatible bulbs. These will be the KAJPLATS line. Announced last fall but not yet available, in Canada anyways. Up until now they only supported Matter through their Dirigera hub, exposing their Tradfri Zigbee bulbs as Matter devices, much like the Hue hub does. Looks like they're discontinuing their hub, and support will die out this summer. They will also be introducing other Matter devices (sensors, etc) with equally hard to pronounce names! If the pricing and compatibility are there, it could be interesting.

@Guy Lavoie

Thank you for all this valuable information! I'm just starting to look into expanding beyond Insteon, so I'm hoping you are willing to help me with a few very basic beginner questions:

Are you directly connecting to the GE Cync bulb using the ZMatter USB module for eisy, or is there another hub in between?

My wife wants RGB exterior lights that can be programmed to be different colors on different days. I have an eisy with a ZMatter USB module that I haven't even connected to it yet. I'm looking at these GE Cync bulbs. Do you have any suggestions or warnings you think I should be aware of?

4 hours ago, EBuchanan said:

@Guy Lavoie

Are you directly connecting to the GE Cync bulb using the ZMatter USB module for eisy, or is there another hub in between?

That's a trick question! The current state of Matter development and support with the eisy is that some things work, and others don't...yet. As you might have read above, adding new Matter devices to the eisy directly usually doesn't work. But first adding the device to another platform like Google Home or Alexa, and then sharing it with a pin code to the eisy usually works. It's worked with the products I've mentioned in previous posts. So no, there is no other hub between the eisy and the bulb once it's set up and works, but you do need another platform like Google Home or Alexa just to set it up initially. I bought a used Google Home mini for $15 on Marketplace, money well spent.

The GE Cync bulbs you indicated in your link might not be Matter devices. I warned about that in a previous post. I guess GE likes to group all their smart products under the Cync label. It's showing as a wifi bulb, controllable from their app. Yet one of the pictures mention Matter, but it's not mentioned on the box. If they aren't, the eisy won't be able to do anything with them. You really need to look for the Matter logo, or Thread label. They do work with Google Home and Alexa, so might be able to accomplish what you want with Alexa routines. But once we're used to having our trusty eisy automate things, we're usually underwhelmed with doing it using other methods.

Lastly, the ZMatter USB dongle (despite it's name) is currently doing absolutely nothing in terms of Matter support. Really, it's a ZWave/Zigbee dongle. In the future, UDI might integrate it into controlling Thread devices directly. Until then, the eisy can currently control Thread devices through a border router. I have a 4th generation Alexa Echo doing this. That's how I'm controlling the Nanoleaf bulb.

Edited Thursday at 09:49 PM3 days by Guy Lavoie

15 hours ago, Guy Lavoie said:

That's a trick question! The current state of Matter development and support with the eisy is that some things work, and others don't...yet. As you might have read above, adding new Matter devices to the eisy directly usually doesn't work.

To be fair to UDI (and others), matter remains in a state of flux. As an example, the specifications for matter scenes are just starting to surface; today's matter products with scene capability are proprietary and candidly lacking. Different device manufacturers are adding their own tweaks and special sauce to matter/thread device settings, which also aren't standard across brands

Matter/Thread is improving and there is progress, yet a moving target and hard for controller manufacturers/integrators like UDI to hit day-to-day. The approach you mention for connecting to a large player's hub like apple, google, etc, is how it works now.

Well that's it. That's why I said some things aren't working, yet. Even the Matter menu in admin console says Alpha Test Version. But that shouldn't discourage you from testing and trying it out. I got into it for the sake of learning for myself, and probably won't be using Matter for anything significant, at least for a while. The more people try it, the more we'll develop some user experience.

16 hours ago, Guy Lavoie said:

The GE Cync bulbs you indicated in your link might not be Matter devices. I warned about that in a previous post. I guess GE likes to group all their smart products under the Cync label. It's showing as a wifi bulb, controllable from their app. Yet one of the pictures mention Matter, but it's not mentioned on the box.

I saw the picture that mentioned Matter and thought those bulbs were safe. Darn your unclarity, GE!!! 🙄

Hopefully it's not out-of-bounds for this forum to just come right out ask: do you have a suggestion for a product/approach to accomplish what I'm trying to do?

What I have: an eisy, the ZWave/Zigbee (but apparently not Matter!) dongle, and a 4th generation Alexa Echo Dot.

What I'm trying to do: replace my outdoor spotlights with something that has individual programmable color control. I'm not planning to do a show, so they don't have to flash to music or be particularly quick to respond to color change commands.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions you have!!!!

For that particular bulb, I'd ask GE. There must be a support link somewhere. Their ambiguous product description needs clarification.

Otherwise, Matter products are still few and far in between. At least we know that some GE Cync products support Matter, so start there first. If you do inquire, let us know what they say.

As for what you have, well Matter is IPv6, and uses your network connection for communications. As long as your router supports IPv6, you're all set. If you get a Matter Thread device, then you'd need a border router. Your Alexa Echo Dot is not a border router, it has to be a Echo (not dot), 4th generation. This is the larger ball, about 6 inches in diameter instead of 4. Some other Echo devices also have it, as well as other makes. Here is a list. Maybe you already have one of these devices:

Matter Alpha

A complete list of Thread Border Routers on the market today

Although Thread doesn't need a "hub" in the traditional sense, you will still need another piece of hardware called a Thread Border Router—to take advantage of its benefits. So, if you are just starti

As for what you're trying to do, Philips Hue will also do that. The Hue plugin for the eisy is very comprehensive. Hue is expensive, but works well. But start by asking GE about that light first.

In poking around, I found this:

https://cyncsupport.gelighting.com/s/article/Cync-Products-with-Matter-Compatibility?language=en_US

I don't see that bulb listed.

Per @Guy Lavoie 's suggestion, I reached out to GE Support and received the following response in regards to whether or not the GE Cync par38 Outdoor bulbs are Matter enabled:

Hey Eric,

 Thank you for contacting Cync Support. There is a specific Matter enabled version of the Cync par38 Outdoor floodlight available at the moment at Best Buy or Amazon. You'll notice the box is different for the Matter enabled model and will clearly state it is Matter compatible on the package.

 Here is a link to the Amazon.

 https://www.amazon.com/GE-Changing-Outdoor-Floodlight-Google/dp/B0G75MH42N/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1Q0KWYRKRCVHP&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gcLZ4pZxOjnXJwSVyDmO_5oEuw_VYR0xSXf5C4YIQ_YET_FNF22woExDHmUAODhtwW3vv-Qm_iMO_YZd8d747YAX3bEufPgsEiSfasAVGTA9k8lOVQK0cE42q0RKKWwqvxUggVORf-aqEu30aGYVHpUNgbscwhS-ALpfDkkVVNElTGJ64FNgjmyFUSHb8xVkTiPYKplqanVR358bA9ep9cF-QTXocmNFj5xfJh-4HFdUF9RGnzezTh6ZZHigXYgRDKQCr0_Pc6lEfscPGn4MsCq2MhRc0WCUFg0AdQVyi2I.DQ0IN1Iir_8yLEIMpWazBVRul27d-vTejkS1QahrsfU&dib_tag=se&keywords=Cync%2Bpar38%2Bfloodlight&qid=1771617545&sprefix=cync%2Bpar38%2Bfloodligh%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-4&th=1

Sincerely,

Jeffrey C
Technician
GE Lighting Smart Support Team
cyncsmart.com

Hah, this keeps getting more interesting! So their "Matter compatible " list is also not up to date.

Make sure that's the version you actually get!

I'm pretty sure it gets BETTER!!!

If you follow the Amazon link, it takes you to a 2-pack of Matter enabled bulbs. There is a handy selector to choose a "Pack of 4" instead:

HOWEVER, clicking the larger size causes the image to change to a 4-pack in a gray box ... the same gray box that doesn't mention Matter:

So, if the pictures are accurate (which I am learning is not always the case), the 2-pack is Matter enabled while the 4-pack is not! 🤦‍♂️

Buyer Beware!

Given that the only difference is software, they're probably updating their product line over time. If you order the Amazon ones, make sure you're not getting older stock. And keep us up to date on how it goes.

Did you also notice that the price/unit is wrong for the two-pack? I've noticed that, over time, there are a lot more negative reviews on product pages where the issue is old/wrong version and/or used/repackaged product - to the point where I don't buy some types of electronics from them anymore. I use B&H Photo instead (no affiliation, just a happy customer).

-Tom

I didn't notice the price per unit discrepancy, But I've seen many reviews about people getting repackaged products. There are also often errors in technical specs. I was just looking at some motion detectors for alarm systems and they often specify that batteries are needed when not, or even the wrong quantity of batteries for some other products. Not very credible.