Brian H Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Rare Query failure and I finally had the Event Viewer Running in Device Communications Events. I have a small system. Eleven devices in all. Except one ApplanceLinc. All are i1 devices most original hardware revisions. With v.28 being the reported firmware in the modules. 15.F0.EC is an i2 ApplianceLinc v.38 Happened with a few revision 2412S PLMs and both revision firmware 2413S PLMs. Many revisions of the ISY firmware. I have a 1132CU I use for some X10 tests in an outlet on a different branch circuit in the computer area. I can see the LED on it flash so I believe the PLM maybe sending a command but the addressed module seems to have gone deaf or is playing stupid. Eventually I get a communications error from ISY naming the module not responding. If I rerun the Query right after the problem one finishes. It zips right through with no hesitations at all. I may have had one time since I owned the ISY99i that the 3:00 AM Query flagged a module problem. Any thoughts? Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:02 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.B3 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:11 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.B3 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:20 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.B3 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:24 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.2B 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:33 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.2B 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:42 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.2B 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 04.2D.01 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:55 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 04.2D.01 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:56 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 04.2D.01 19.70.1A 23 58 00 (00) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:56 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][04.2D.01-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:56 PM : [ 4 2D 1 1] ST 0 Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:56 PM : [ 4 2D 1 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:56 PM : [ 4 2D 1 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:56 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.C5 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:57 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FB.C5 19.70.1A 23 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:57 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FB.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:57 PM : [ 0 FB C5 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:57 PM : [ 0 FB C5 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:57 PM : [ 0 FB C5 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 06:38:57 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.35 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:06 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.35 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:15 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.35 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:15 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FC.35 19.70.1A 27 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:15 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FC.35-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:15 PM : [ 0 FC 35 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:15 PM : [ 0 FC 35 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:15 PM : [ 0 FC 35 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:16 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.F4 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:25 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.F4 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FB.F4 19.70.1A 23 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FB.F4-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [ 0 FB F4 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [ 0 FB F4 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [ 0 FB F4 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.1F 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FC.1F 19.70.1A 23 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FC.1F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [ 0 FC 1F 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [ 0 FC 1F 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [ 0 FC 1F 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:27 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.BF 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FB.BF 19.70.1A 23 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FB.BF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [ 0 FB BF 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [ 0 FB BF 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [ 0 FB BF 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 04.D5.68 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 04.D5.68 19.70.1A 27 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][04.D5.68-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [ 4 D5 68 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [ 4 D5 68 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [ 4 D5 68 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:28 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.F0.EC 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.F0.EC 19.70.1A 2B 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.F0.EC-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [ 15 F0 EC 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [ 15 F0 EC 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [ 15 F0 EC 1] RR 27 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 04.2B.B4 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 04.2B.B4 19.70.1A 2B 23 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][04.2B.B4-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [ 4 2B B4 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [ 4 2B B4 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 06:39:29 PM : [ 4 2B B4 1] RR 31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 To compare from the previous Event Viewer Log. This was a normal quick Query with no errors. Hops Left= is different between a problem Query and a Normal Query. Scene tests don't seem to show anything. Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:29 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.B3 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:29 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FB.B3 19.70.1A 2B 30 FF BEEP (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:29 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FB.B3-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:29 PM : [ 0 FB B3 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:29 PM : [ 0 FB B3 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:29 PM : [ 0 FB B3 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:29 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.2B 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FC.2B 19.70.1A 2B 4E FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FC.2B-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [ 0 FC 2B 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [ 0 FC 2B 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [ 0 FC 2B 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 04.2D.01 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 04.2D.01 19.70.1A 2B 58 00 (00) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][04.2D.01-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [ 4 2D 1 1] ST 0 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [ 4 2D 1 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [ 4 2D 1 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:30 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.C5 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FB.C5 19.70.1A 2B 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FB.C5-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [ 0 FB C5 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [ 0 FB C5 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [ 0 FB C5 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.35 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FC.35 19.70.1A 2B 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FC.35-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [ 0 FC 35 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [ 0 FC 35 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [ 0 FC 35 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:31 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.F4 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FB.F4 19.70.1A 2B 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FB.F4-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [ 0 FB F4 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [ 0 FB F4 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [ 0 FB F4 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FC.1F 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FC.1F 19.70.1A 2B 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FC.1F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [ 0 FC 1F 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [ 0 FC 1F 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [ 0 FC 1F 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:32 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.FB.BF 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.FB.BF 19.70.1A 2B 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.FB.BF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [ 0 FB BF 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [ 0 FB BF 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [ 0 FB BF 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 04.D5.68 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 04.D5.68 19.70.1A 2B 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][04.D5.68-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [ 4 D5 68 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [ 4 D5 68 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [ 4 D5 68 1] RR 31 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:33 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.F0.EC 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.F0.EC 19.70.1A 2B 00 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.F0.EC-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [ 15 F0 EC 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [ 15 F0 EC 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [ 15 F0 EC 1] RR 27 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 04.2B.B4 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 04.2B.B4 19.70.1A 2B 23 FF (FF) Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][04.2B.B4-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [ 4 2B B4 1] ST 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [ 4 2B B4 1] OL 255 Fri 01/06/2012 07:09:34 PM : [ 4 2B B4 1] RR 31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Perhaps the PLM stopped working for a short time or something was interfering with communication. Several devices show no response at all to the three Query attempts. Several of the devices did respond but to the second or third Query attempt. Most of the devices that did respond to the first Query have a Hops Left = 0. The next trace shows great communications. No way to tell from the trace what the cause is but it was across the board. Has to be something common to all the devices. That makes it a temporary PLM failure or something really heavy interfering with all device communication. Even the ones that worked showed poor comm. (temporarily). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hello Brian, If this were a year ago, and another person posting, I would likely tell them to look for a intermittent noise source near the PLM. Given your background and experience, I would guess that you eliminated that possibility. While I hate taking a problem and force fitting it to someones situation, this is similar to what I have been seeing with my dual band PLM/I1 units. From your log, I am assuming that the 19.70.1A PLM is a dual band unit (the address numbering is similar to mine). Summarizing the symptoms: 1) Severe communication problems with numerous I1 devices, followed by 100% success (i.e. highly intermittent). 2) I2 devices unaffected (your appliancelinc) 3) Scene tests unaffected (these use 1 Hop responses). You mentioned that you also saw failures with your 2412S PLM. That may rule out the problem that I'm seeing. My V.92 2412S does not experience the problem communicating with I1 devices. On the flip side, I have only one 2412S to test. It's possible that later versions incorporated changes that contribute to this problem. Could you post back with the versions of 2412s that you've tested and which units experience comm problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELA Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hi Brian, Back before I spent, what seemed like an eternity, with my comm issues I used to have the same issues with my ISY99 queries. I used to accept that as "somewhat normal" since my overall, everyday scenes worked acceptably. Since "fixing" my system I am somewhat amazed at how fast (at least comparatively) and errorless my ISY99 quires are now. It takes about 15 seconds to complete and I have roughly 50 Insteon devices. With Insteon I believe a person will always have to expect an occasional hickup so I would never say I am at 100% - always. Did you say you own a scope? Is it digital a storage unit? Have you ever looked at your signal strengths with the scope? I believe we talked about your PLM location in relation to the service in another thread. Did you consider moving it closer to the service as a test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 ELA; I don't have a digital storage scope and getting the ISY99i into the basement near the breaker panel would be a challenge. Yes I have also thought that occasional quirks maybe the way of life or not frequent enough to find easily. IM; The two 2412S units last used where Hardware 3.1 Firmware 85 and Hardware 3.1 Firmware 7A. The 15.F0.EC is the i2 ApplianceLinc Hardware 4.2 firmware 38. All the rest are Hardware 1.3 Firmware 28 or original SwitchLinc relays also firmware 28. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELA Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I hear you Brian on the difficulty in relocating the PLM. It was a lot of work running a 100ft ethernet cable from my computer room to my garage. Worth the effort though. Early on I realized that, in theory, it would be better to have the PLM near the service cabinet but I refused to give in since simulcasting and the Mesh network (once again in theory) should eliminate the need. After all my testing I came to the conclusion that you need to get the message through on the #0 or 1st hop to be the most reliable. This required a more centralized broadcast point. Treating Insteon more like you had to X-10. Can you run a long ethernet cable outside the walls/attic/basement as a temporary test only? Again not saying it is a cure-all but worth a try maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 I may try it. I could find a hole between the main floor and the cellar. I have passed some TY cables through the floor. Next ting would be getting some network cable, plugs and a crimper or finding a 100' preassembled one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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