Power Failure

[remedy1234]

Hello Everyone

I need help on writing a program.I would like to be notified of a power failure.I was thinking of a email when the power failed and when it was restored.There is a generator involved so I can pull power off of the generator panel if needed.The power would be out "in real time for as long as it takes for the generator to start.Any Ideas on a program and devices needed to do this?

 

 

Thanks Tim

[andyf0]

You can be notified when power is restored simply by creating a program that sends EMail in the Then section. Then set it to run when power is restored. You might want to put a Wait before sending the EMail to give your modem and router some time to start up.

[remedy1234]

Thanks Andy

What do I do Make a program to "enable run at start up"?

 

Tim

[andyf0]

Thanks Andy

What do I do Make a program to "enable run at start up"?

 

Tim

 

Go to the summary tab where you see all your programs. Right Click on the program and select "Enable Run at Startup".

[remedy1234]

I guess it can't be done?

[TJF1960]

Hello remedy1234,

 

The easiest way, and cheapest is as andyf0 suggested. Create a program such as:

 

Reboot Email:

If
  - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

Then
       Set Program 'Reboot Email' To Run At Startup
       Wait 1 minute
       Send Notification to 'remedy1234'
       Run Program 'Reboot Email' (Else Path)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Manually run this program once, it will automatically set itself to run each time at startup. This program will not alert you when the power fails but it will email you when power is restored and the ISY reboots. In order for the ISY to alert you to a power failure it needs some extra support equipment.

 

Getting an alert when power fails is a bit more tricky, and expensive but sure it can be done. I am using CAI's WebControl board (http://www.cainetworks.com/products/webcontrol/webcontrol-faq.html) and io_guy's WCLink program (http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=6612) and a wall-wart to monitor the line voltage. I get an email if the voltage is too high or too low. In my case I use the too high (over 130 volts) and too low (which is less than 100 volts) as trip points to alert me as well has shut off voltage sensitive equipment. You could have it just email when the voltage was 0 if you wanted. In order for this to work the ISY, network router, internet modem and the WebControl board need to be on a power backup supply (UPS).

 

It could also be accomplished probably a dozen other ways too. One idea would be using an I/O Linc (http://www.smarthome.com/2450/IOLinc-INSTEON-Low-Voltage-Contact-Closure-Interface-1-In-1-Out-/p.aspx) and 120v relay and a passive coupler (http://www.smarthome.com/4815X/X10-XPCP-X10-Passive-Signal-Coupler/p.aspx) and also a UPS.

The ISY and I/O Linc and one side of the passive coupler would be on the UPS. The relay coil and the other side of the passive coupler would be wired to another (non UPS) 120v tap. One set of the relay contacts would wire to the I/O Linc. I would think, next to the reboot email program route that this might be the next simplest but probably not the cheapest route.

 

Tim

[apostolakisl]

Hello remedy1234,

 

The easiest way, and cheapest is as andyf0 suggested. Create a program such as:

 

Reboot Email:

If
  - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

Then
       Set Program 'Reboot Email' To Run At Startup
       Wait 1 minute
       Send Notification to 'remedy1234'
       Run Program 'Reboot Email' (Else Path)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Manually run this program once, it will automatically set itself to run each time at startup. This program will not alert you when the power fails but it will email you when power is restored and the ISY reboots. In order for the ISY to alert you to a power failure it needs some extra support equipment.

 

Getting an alert when power fails is a bit more tricky, and expensive but sure it can be done. I am using CAI's WebControl board (http://www.cainetworks.com/products/webcontrol/webcontrol-faq.html) and io_guy's WCLink program (http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=6612) and a wall-wart to monitor the line voltage. I get an email if the voltage is too high or too low. In my case I use the too high (over 130 volts) and too low (which is less than 100 volts) as trip points to alert me as well has shut off voltage sensitive equipment. You could have it just email when the voltage was 0 if you wanted. In order for this to work the ISY, network router, internet modem and the WebControl board need to be on a power backup supply (UPS).

 

It could also be accomplished probably a dozen other ways too. One idea would be using an I/O Linc (http://www.smarthome.com/2450/IOLinc-INSTEON-Low-Voltage-Contact-Closure-Interface-1-In-1-Out-/p.aspx) and 120v relay and a passive coupler (http://www.smarthome.com/4815X/X10-XPCP-X10-Passive-Signal-Coupler/p.aspx) and also a UPS.

The ISY and I/O Linc and one side of the passive coupler would be on the UPS. The relay coil and the other side of the passive coupler would be wired to another (non UPS) 120v tap. One set of the relay contacts would wire to the I/O Linc. I would think, next to the reboot email program route that this might be the next simplest but probably not the cheapest route.

 

Tim

 

 

Nice work.

 

Here is another way. Io_guys program has a "heart beat" it sends to ISY. If the cai is plugged into a regular plug (not a ups), when the power fails the heartbeat will stop. You could use this to trigger an email. Of course your router/modem/ISY would all need to be on UPS.

[remedy1234]

Thanks a lot guys That helps me out.How about this?Use 2-(smarthome/2475S2/INSTEON-In-LineLinc-On-Off-Module-Non-dimming-w-Sense) wire one in with the house panel on on the generator use andy's enable at start up program,It will trigger when generator kicks on (Notification Power is off) Wire the other one with the panel not on the generator Enable at start up It will trigger when power is restored.

 

Once again Thankyou

[apostolakisl]

Thanks a lot guys That helps me out.How about this?Use 2-(smarthome/2475S2/INSTEON-In-LineLinc-On-Off-Module-Non-dimming-w-Sense) wire one in with the house panel on on the generator use andy's enable at start up program,It will trigger when generator kicks on (Notification Power is off) Wire the other one with the panel not on the generator Enable at start up It will trigger when power is restored.

 

Once again Thankyou

 

That would work. You would want to power the inline lincs with a UPS. You wouldn't necessarily need to have these programs run at startup.

 

If

status inline linc generator is on

then

send email generator power on

 

If

status inline linc city power is on

Then

send email city power on

Else

send email city power off

 

These programs will run every time the status of the in line lincs change. When you first install the programs or boot the ISY, these will both be "on". No email will be sent at that time if you don't have a "run at startup" checked.

 

If power goes out, both will change to off, and both programs will run, but the first program won't do anything (else is empty). The second program will send the else email (city power off). When the generator turns on a few seconds later, the first program will run again, and this time it will send the then email (generator on). When power is restored, I assume your generator will switch off and back to city power seamlessly so first program does nothing. The second program will run sending the "city power on" email.

 

The cai solution could also work the same and be cheaper, it would only cost about $40 plus some random wall warts you probably already have sitting around. Except, you need a computer running all the time for io-guy's program. However, there might be a chance that ISY adds some direct linking to the CAI board, we shall see.

[aLf]

Kind of on the same line...

I have a Generac whole house generator. I've always been afraid of power outages and the subsequent startup and power of the Generac. I have about 40 SWL, KPL, and the ISY. It is not a big deal for me to have all the Insteon stuff on the back up, ISY is not. When the power goes out, the generator stays off for about five minutes, then starts up and supplies a dozen or so Insteon items and some other old switches, the fridge, furnace, etc. Is there any harm in a generator like this to Insteon (or the ISY if I moved it to the generator power)? On the same note, what about Panasonic Network cameras?

 

Thanks,

 

aLf

[LeeG]

aLf

 

I run a generator when power goes down. Never damaged an Insteon device. However, as with many generators, the 60 cycle being generated is not accurate enough for reliable powerline communication. The local load control is fine but communication with linked devices is spotty. There are various other Insteon users with the same experience. Take a look at the Smarthome forum. The subject comes up whenever there is a wide spread power outage somewhere. Some generates, generally the more expensive but not always, do generate a very accurate 60 cycle sine wave. Insteon devices start sending before the zero crossing so accurate 60 cycle timing and wave shape are very important.

 

Lee

[Brian H]

The modified sine wave regulated ones. Could be a problem with both Insteon and other protocol devices.

[apostolakisl]

Lee, aLF, or others,

 

Any comments on how well dual band works while on a non-perfect sine wave?

 

How about the "inverter" style generators. Are they clean enough for Insteon?

[remedy1234]

I have installed a few whole house generators some homes have insteon and your average Tv's,computers,and stereo equiptment.Outside of if something happening to the generator I have never had a problem with destroying equiptment.My theory is lighting can strike nothing is fool proof.(then the problem is what my insurance deductible?)

[apostolakisl]

I would like to add another comment pertaining to my above solution.

 

I don't know what happens to an Insteon PLM when you put it on a UPS. Has anyone tried this? Obviously it will not communicate via PLC when it is running on battery (at least not to the other side of the UPS). Has anyone tried connecting to a UPS while not on battery and experienced success or failure as far as PLC getting past it without suck/noise?

 

I imagine there would be problems.

 

This would lead me towards using a non-insteon device such as the cai to detect power faiulres. Running ISY and a CAI on a UPS should not present a problem.

[TJF1960]

I would like to add another comment pertaining to my above solution.

 

I don't know what happens to an Insteon PLM when you put it on a UPS. Has anyone tried this? Obviously it will not communicate via PLC when it is running on battery (at least not to the other side of the UPS). Has anyone tried connecting to a UPS while not on battery and experienced success or failure as far as PLC getting past it without suck/noise?

 

I imagine there would be problems.

 

This would lead me towards using a non-insteon device such as the cai to detect power faiulres. Running ISY and a CAI on a UPS should not present a problem.

I did run a couple of SL relays (non dual band) on a ups with a passive coupler coupling the battery back up side of the ups and the wall outlet where the ups was plugged in for about a year with no comm. failures. I don't remember trying the plm on the ups however.

 

Tim

[apostolakisl]

I would like to add another comment pertaining to my above solution.

 

I don't know what happens to an Insteon PLM when you put it on a UPS. Has anyone tried this? Obviously it will not communicate via PLC when it is running on battery (at least not to the other side of the UPS). Has anyone tried connecting to a UPS while not on battery and experienced success or failure as far as PLC getting past it without suck/noise?

 

I imagine there would be problems.

 

This would lead me towards using a non-insteon device such as the cai to detect power faiulres. Running ISY and a CAI on a UPS should not present a problem.

I did run a couple of SL relays (non dual band) on a ups with a passive coupler coupling the battery back up side of the ups and the wall outlet where the ups was plugged in for about a year with no comm. failures. I don't remember trying the plm on the ups however.

 

Tim

 

 

Interesting. Did you make the passive coupler or did you purchase something. I suspect you could link it with a capacitor hot to hot across the UPS, correct?

[TJF1960]

Yeah, I am sure you could use a cap. I remember seeing those sold on eBay. I used the x10 pro coupler http://www.ebay.com/itm/X10-PRO-Signal-Bridge-Passive-Phase-Coupler-XPCP-/380345447874?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588e5af5c2, I had a couple from back when you could get them for 5 or 10 bucks a piece on eBay. I just mounted it in a single gang box. Cut a couple of extension cord plugs off and wired the plugs to the coupler. It worked sweet for a long time. Then cai came along and didn't need it or the SL on the ups any more.

[Brian H]

The XPCP is a nice coupler. It has two completely isolated AC inputs coupled by signal transformers.

[Slalom]

This would lead me towards using a non-insteon device such as the cai to detect power faiulres. Running ISY and a CAI on a UPS should not present a problem.

 

I use my elk to detect power failure and make sure everything else is on a UPS...

[apostolakisl]

This would lead me towards using a non-insteon device such as the cai to detect power faiulres. Running ISY and a CAI on a UPS should not present a problem.

 

I use my elk to detect power failure and make sure everything else is on a UPS...

 

 

If you have an Elk and the Elk module that is the most obvious and most bullet proof way, but I don't think the OP has an Elk.

 

If conversatons between UD and CAI go well, perhaps we will have a CAI module for ISY anyway, which will make for an great (and cheap) way to have I/O and 1-wire connections across IP for our ISY's.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Guys,

 

I have a call with Wayne tomorrow (Tuesday).

 

With kind regards,

Michel