apostolakisl

The wiki has sample programs and there is an ISY "cookbook". Regarding KPL,s basically, you can set them up to be 4 on/off switches using the technique I listed. An on/off switch has two exclusionary states and by making scenes with two kpl buttons where one shuts the other off, you can do effectively make 2 states, or 3 states, or 4 states . . etc. With your bathroom, I think you make it an 8 states switch. I have some kpl's that I use as 4 on/off switches using that technique. The more you can do with scenes instead of programs, the better (quicker) the response will be. And if you have the pro 994, then you can set it so that it doesn't write changes until you are done setting things up. That way you don't have to wait every time you make a single change for it to write before doing the next thing. And with programs, your 8 (or whatever you ended up) with timers for your 8 kpl buttons can go very fast by making one program, then copying it 7 times and making the couple edits needed.

Mostly because you were new to most everything you just did. I could have set it up in 5 minutes, and if you continue to get more familiar with ISY programming, you will too. The stuff we did here has other applications letting you do things you might not have known could be done. Like toggling back and forth between two kpl buttons (or all 8). Setting up scenes where turning one scene on turns something else OFF is something that doesn't immediately strike people as a thing.

For the most part, it has built-in polyglot 3 node server. Otherwise, if you want nodeservers you have to use PG2 which is no longer being updated and you have to install the PG2 on a rpi or similar. Eisy is also has way more processing speed and io ports and stuff which generally isn't needed, though I suspect as ISY continues to update it may grow into needing it. Also eisy is supporting some of the newer stuf like Matter which I don't believe 994i does.

For each scene, say the 10 minute scene, button C. Add to that scene all the other buttons, but set the "on level" to "off" for all the buttons except C. This way only one KPL button will be on at a time. So the controller is button c, you can see it is red. If you click on that red button c listing, it will show all the settings for all the stuff in that scene when controlled by button c. Now go down the list and set the "on level" to "off" for everything except button c and the fan outlet.

If you shut the scene off, everything in the scene shuts off. So that would shut off both the kpl button and the outlet the fan is plugged into. If you want to shut off something else, then you need to either add it to the scene or list it separatley. By listing all the other KPL buttons as "not switched on", it will cause this program to terminate if you push one of the other buttons. For example, if you push button C, that will be a "switched on" event, which will trigger this program. But it is listed as "not switched on", so that will trigger the else clause. If the wait is already running, then it will end.

Create multiple scenes. Each scene will have one of the KPL buttons and the appliance link running the fan. The KPL button will be a controller of the scene. At this point, pressing any of those buttons will turn the fan on, no programs needed. Now, to turn it off. For each KPL button scene, create a program, adjusting the wait time for whatever you want for each button. If KPL button is switched on (the button you want to set the timer for below minutes) and KPL button is not switched on (one of the other buttons) and KPL button is not switched on (another button . . etc including all of the other buttons) Then wait x minutes set scene that KPL button is in off Also, if you manually turn the KPL button off, this will shut the fan off. EDIT: You might also put in each scene all of the kpl buttons, but make all of the non-primary kpl buttons responders and set the "on level" to off. This way, if you say push button b, then change your mind and push button c, button b will turn off. I also edited the program above so that if you push say button b, then change your mind and hit button c, not only will the kpl light turn off, but the program timer for that button will end.

I guess I am confused here. Is the KPL not hard wired to the fan? And what do you want each of the KPL buttons to do?

On the KPL devices it gets a little screwy because the other 7 buttons are not treated as devices. You have to create a scene for each button even if it is the only thing in the scene to use a program to turn it on/off. If you are going to use a program to control the fan timing and not the other buttons on the KPL, I would switch over to a swtichlinc.

If fan switch is control switched on Then wait 2 minutes set fan switch off

Just replaced the 250v 6.8uF capacitor in one of my very old and long discontinued synchrolincs . . . and it works again! It has been sitting on my workbench for months waiting for me to get around to it.

Yes, that will work fine. Kind of seems like more options than you would really ever need. Without labeling the buttons you will probably forget how many minutes each button does. Personally, I did the simple on/off switch with the 5 minute additions. Rarely use anything more than the single click for 5 minutes.

You could try replacing the capacitors. Most common part to fail in any Insteon device.

What @lilyoyo1 said. Just write some programs in ISY. That is how all of my bathroom fans currently work. No need for a special switch that they haven't made in years and probably will never make again. I have it set to turn on for 5 minutes when you click the on paddle. If I click the on paddle a second time, it adds 5 more minutes. If do a "fast on" it just turns on and stays on. You can get fancy with it that way or just make a simple program that says If control device is switched on Then wait 5 minutes turn device off Or, use variables for something fancy If control device is switched on Then $fantimer += 5 (use a state variable) If $fantimer is not zero Then turn fan on Else turn fan off If $fantimer is not zero Then repeat every minute $fantimer -= 1

If it is turning a fan on and off, you would not want the dimmer. Though it would probably work, you are best to use the relay version since fans are only supposed to function as on/off devices. If you have the ramp rate set to go super fast to 100% it will likely work, but there is probably some chance of damaging the motor or even having it catch fire. And even at 100%, the triac may still be affecting the current flow. I guess if you already have an 8 button kpl dimmer on it and it has worked for years, it would be at your discretion to just replace it with the same. And yes, I do believe the D in the name stands for dimmer. An S stands for switch. Looking at the insteon web page, they don't have any switches in stock. The 8 button dimmer and 6 button dimmer are actually the same device configured differently. They make a conversion kit. The switch is totally different, it has a relay in it that switches the load on and off, the dimmers run the power through a triac dimmer.

If it was working as a timer, then you must have it programmed in ISY to do that. Keypads can't do that by themselves. And yes, you need a new KPL (They are called Keypad Links or KPL for short). Or you could open it up and replace the capacitors which is probably what went bad. Physically replace the old switch with the the new switch and add it to ISY (put ISY in linking mode and press the little tab button on the bottom of the kpl until it beeps, then click the pop-up window in ISY to go ahead and add it). Give it a name like "new kpl". Then, in ISY remove the old KPL from any folder you may have placed it in (right click/remove from folder), then transfer programming to new device (right click old kpl/replace with . . . select the new switch). Then if you like you can move it back to a folder in ISY. Doing the above will transfer all programs and links and everything from the old KPL to the new KPL. It will name the new kpl with the name of the old one and it will totally delete the old kpl from ISY.

You have to have the old switch in the root folder. So first right click and remove from folder, then go to its new location in the tree and right click and you will see the "replace with" command. The new switch will have to be the same switch or an updated version of the same switch or you won't be given the option to select it as the destination of the programming.

With Elk you can put a zone expansion board right next to your main electric panel and run a single data wire from the zone expansion board back to Elk (or any other Elk data device). The data cables are daisy chained, so you may already have a keypad near your main panel and thus could daisy chain it off of the keypad. A single CAT6 can do an "out and back" if the keypad isn't already the last item on the daisy chain. The beauty of using Elk of course is that you already have the Elk setup with power backup and a communication system that also works in power outages.

2476D are quite old, likely at least 10 years old. The 2477D is the current model and has been for a long time. Some of your switches may have simply failed. The older switches had some issues with longevity and also just didn't work as well because they lacked radio communication. The new switches use both power line communication (inserting data into the houses power wires) and simultaneously through radio communication. These are called "dual band" and are quite reliable (the 2477d and 2477s). If there is no led lit up at all, the switch is either not getting power, or has failed. Possibly it just needs a reboot. To reboot, use a butter knife to pull out the disconnect tab at the bottom of the switch (it can be stubborn). This pull out tab will completely cut power to the switch's electronics. You must properly pull it out to ensure you actually disconnected power. When properly pulled out, it will stick out a couple millimeters and stay there all by itself. Leave it out for about 10 seconds, then give it a tap so that it pops back in. After a few seconds the switch will reboot. If instead of just popping it back in, you push it in and hold it in (deeply) for about 15 seconds as the switch boots up, the switch will do a factory reset. I would not do this right off since it may have had programming in it that is useful (assuming the previous owner had put useful links on it). I have never seen an insteon switch whose led just cycled up and down and up and down all on its own endlessly. Sounds like some failure mode. Possibly a reboot will fix it. Switches that go up when you push the up button and down when you push the down button are behaving as expected from that point. You need to figure out what the switch is connected to. This may be nothing if it was used to control a scene and not directly connected to a load (light). Switches that blink red after using them would be a newer switch. If it blinks red, that means it had been linked to another switch and the other switch didn't respond when you used it. Or it could have been linked to a controller (like isy) and the controller didn't respond, possibly because it isn't there (the previous owner took it with them). Insteon switches all have the ability to directly control a load (like a light) or directly control nothing but rather indirectly control things through data links to other switches (a scene). If it directly controls a light, then by itself, it behaves the same as any "dumb" switch. The cool and useful thing about Insteon is how it links up with other switches and controllers (like ISY). When switches are linked together you have created a "scene". Programming a simple scene can be done directly with the switch (download instructions from the internet). But scenes can be made extremely fancy and complex if you employ the use of an ISY. If none of this interests you, then you should pull the switches and put "dumb" switches back in. It is very close to a 100% chance that the house was wired for dumb switches. If you are clueless on how these things are wired, you need to hire an electrician. If you do it yourself, you will no doubt discover that many switches in the house were wired for 3 way or 4 way and thus you will need to figure out which wires go between which switch boxes. A simple switch that directly controls one load with no other switches is pretty easy. Insteon switches have 3 wires (plus ground). A white (neutral), a black (hot), and red ( load to the fixture). White and black must be connected for the switch to work. The red might be capped if that switch does not directly control a fixture.

As @paulbates said. Sounds like the light fixture is electricly "noisy". Might need a filter or a light that has cleaner electronics. And unless you have circumstances to control "off" that are more than just waiting a few minutes after last motion, you would be better off letting the MS be in control and skipping the program.

are these all insteon devices? If so, link them directly and get rid of the program. Direct links work much faster and avoid unnecessary clutter in your program tree.

I had my programs disabled on _4 a while back. I upgraded to _5 at that time and have not had any issues since, including the switch back to standard time (CST). Sunrise and sunset also are correct. I also do not understand the "secret" _1,2,3 etc version. Getting all your programs disabled is kind of a big deal depending on what they were doing and then if you have a complicated setup with lots of programs and specific ones disabled sprinkled about, it is no fun correcting.

May I suggest then renaming some of them. For example, instead of "zone expander", name it "zone expander trouble". It would make it butt obvious then. Cause. . . who has time to read the instructions?

I was investigating using some of the values on this page. But see a number of things that make no sense. First off, my Elk is connected to ISY and correctly tracking the armed status and the zones and all the usual stuff. But on this page, it shows the node server as "disconnected", but it clearly is connected. It also says "false" on a bunch of things like having an output and input expander (which I have several of) and ethernet as "false" despite it clearly being connected. Also "dislplay message in keypad" is false, yet I have messages being displayed via ISY and this node server.

@jec6613 @DennisC The yolink seems like a good choice. Though if you already have an alarm system that is connected to ISY and it has unused zones, this would be the cheapest way to get power monitored. If it is conveniently located, you could power a relay with the circuit you are monitoring and wire that directly to your alarm panel. If power goes out, the relay opens and the zone triggers. Set the zone up as a monitored zone, not as fire or burglary. It just depends on what kind of alarm panel you have, I have Elk and DSC linked to my ISY's and know how to do it with those.

My first thought would be to use a device with inputs on it like a DSC alarm panel. They come with 16 zones and you could get expanders. Add 16 relays with 120v coils. Put a relay on each circuit you want to monitor and then run a zone through the normally open spot on the relay. When the circuit has power, the relay closes and the alarm panel will read as a secure zone. If power is lost, the relay opens and the zone violates. DSC panels have battery backup so even if the circuit powering it popped the DSC would still be monitoring. You can connect the DSC to ISY using a node server. You would need the DSC network interface. Or, you may already have an alarm system in your house that is linked to ISY in which case maybe use it.