lilyoyo1

You're the one talking about insteon not being found in hospitals, hotels, restaurants, and other businesses. I was pointing out that those are not places you would find any diy system at all. Not about who can necessarily afford them. While you may not have mentioned all the other protocols, you did bring up those scenarios in regards to insteon not being able to do the same so yes, it was implied. You yourself have called out other people for comparing an electronic device to a mechanical one. Your thought process was the same as mine in that mechanical would last 10x longer than an electronic switch. That's like saying a cordless phone (or cellphone) should last as long as an old rotary phone. Most don't get into automation for load management. They get into it for convenience. Your last argument goes with what I've been saying this whole time. Its about the masses, not necessarily power users and the like

You're rehashing since it's the same statements every time you post. Even seconds later. You're calling us the masses when it's about this forum. The masses are general consumers. We are not the masses for them. Back when insteon had people pushing the Isy, the hub still outsold it 5 to 1. The number has only increased since then simply going off the amount of plms being sold vs hubs. UDI has done nothing different than what insteon is now doing. They were a software company creating an automation controller. They saw insteon didn't have strong software so they worked with them for their and expanded to other offerings. They are now in a place where they don't need them. Insteon being a hardware company needed power users in the beginning. They needed the techies to get them started. Now that the masses are interested in smart homes, they are moving towards that and away from the techies and power users. They aren't the first ones and you'll see in time, more will do the same

Especially with fried apples

Actually your comparison is dead wrong and completely misleading. For the most part, you won't find zwave, wifi switches, or any other consumer diy products, in any of the environments that you mentioned. You'll find true professional level devices in 99% of the environments that you mentioned. For starters, what it takes for something to make it in a hospital is much greater than what it takes for a person's home. For a technology to work properly in a hotel, the requirements differ as well. That's why you'll see Control4 in the Aria and Crestron in other high end hotels. Go to the avg business conference room. Its not RTI- it's Crestron. Small businesses, may have a diy system installed but not full sized companies. Last I checked, insteon, zwave, nor any other smart switch maker has simple bathroom timers. Completely different worlds. If you're going to argue something, at least argue with full facts vs comparing apples to steak. Those companies are in completely different worlds than insteon and other diy systems

I'm not going to go back into the past with what old ownership did or didn't do. They did something right since they are still in business despite all the naysayers and ranting on here about how much they suck for the past 10 years. Regardless of how terrible people say it is, was still able to sell it for more than any of us will probably make in our lifetime. Since you're talking about open source, that's all hobbyists and tinkerer's. Most professionals wouldn't use it and the avg person doesn't have the desire to take the time and effort to set a system up from scratch. Not only that it's free. Businesses are in the business to make money not code for free software. In regards to Vera- what type of people are using it? Once again, hobbyists and tinkerers. Let's be real, no one cares about the underlying code for something they buy. They buy an Android phone because they like the design, price point, mfg. How many have you talked to that say they wanted one because its Linux based? Those who do get it for that reason are generally techies, hobbyists, coders, etc. Not the general public. Just looking at the Google play store downloads, when you look at the download count for Samsung smart things, Philips hue, and magic home, all have 1 million+ downloads. More than openhab, home assistant, mqtt, and vera combined.

I'm not certain how NWI works between different series (500 and 700). I'll have to check and see if that matters. I've never really tested it since I pair next to my system regardless of what it is to be safe

Alot of these companies did/do what it takes to make money. That's all they are loyal to. Its part of why I support and defend UDI/Isy so much. The way you operate is not common in the business world. 15 years ago these products were made for techies and integrators because the avg person didn't want anything to do with a smart home. Around 6-7 years ago interest grew in smart homes and the market started to shift. Fast forward to now, it's come into it's own and more people want some type of control (not necessarily automation). Companies do not have to sell 50 switches to 5 people to make money now since they have 50 people buying 5....and then they come back for more. Power users are extremely demanding compared to avg users so the cost to support them is much greater post sale than with everyone else. When you look at how easy it is to add devices to the new hub and setup, it's a no brainer for them (and most companies). You may have support calls for initial setup, but after that, people simply use their systems vs constant tinkering the way power users are. This is especially so with how easy the new system is to setup Its going that route for alot of businesses. More and more companies are installing ring cameras vs hardwired systems for people. Why? It's what people want and they can do 3 installs in the time it takes to do 1 hardwired. Not only that, due to the costs involved, it's easier to expand the system over time than it is with a hardwired system. For a business, its more money for less work, more customers=more referrals, and potentially a repeat customer who wants to add to the system over time

But it's not a professional product. Professionals may use it as an entry level product but that is not who insteon is marketing. Insteon doesn't have to lower their price to compete. There are those willing to buy the cheapest product for any given reason and there are others willing to pay a premium for others Professional level products are generally dealer only and cost many times more then insteon. Control 4, Creation, Savant, all fall into this category

Factory reset the dinners per manual. Choose start linking in the Isy and then press and hold set button on insteon devices until you hear a chirp

There are plenty of people pleased. Just not on here. Insteon is making products for their customers which may not mean power users who choose to use them. Its all about who something is designed for. This is why many companies are moving away from power users and going towards mass market. They have simpler needs.

Yes. As long as you do not use zwave, you'd be able to add it

Its funny how complaints work. It was redesigned due to complaints about water still being present but people no longer being alerted. Then when they changed things, the other side had complaints about needing to tap the set button. Just goes to show, you can't please everyone. Personally, i prefer a manual reset. I had an issue once with one of my fibaro sensors that could've been worse since it stopped reporting once the water moved away from the sensor.

All of mine are good. I just buy extras for warranty purposes. The last listing didn't go high enough to warrant putting any out there

Did you check the wiki? https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page#Instructions_for_Purchase.2FActivation.2FDeactivation

I think they are moving to ZigBee to survive. Trying to be innovative is a costly endeavor... especially when you consider the limited market appeal any given product will have. Power users (such as those on this forum) can allow a company to grow it's brand but ultimately it's unsustainable. That's why you see most products being released for mass market appeal vs directly what we want. All this goes with my same thoughts on insteon's new product line and their other business moves. Creating new devices, maintaining a full suite of products in addition to adding a while bunch of features that power users want isn't cheap. Take you for example. The avg user isn't keeping their console open 24/7 to know devices are causing errors. They only see things working. They wouldn't know of background problems. And if they do notice, they are more likely to dismiss things since the device works like normal. A power user on the other hand will be a support nightmare. They'll tie up support lines, want replacement products, and move on from that company leaving bad reviews behind (not saying that's you).

It is in the sense of devices are turning on. The "all on" command is a broadcast message sent out to all devices at once to turn on, sort of like an alarm whereas the standard "on" is sent 1 at a time to each device that is set up.

I can't speak specifically for that device. However, zwave all on refers to any zwave device setup for that command

You asked a question to UDI and I stated contact them directly via ticket if you want a response from them. I added, if you look at the 2413s compared to the 2413u and the ports on the Isy, you'd see why the 2413u wouldn't work. You don't need an engineer to figure it out. Simply looking at your parts would tell you why. The fact that all listings for the isy (except maybe eBay) says use the 2413s which you ignored makes your whole blowup worthless is simply extra. The information is there. Dont get mad at UDI...READ!!!

If you need to contact Udi, you should submit a ticket directly. So you purchased a product that told you what you need, ignored it, and now upset with UDI? The information was there, READ IT! Have you looked in the back of your Isy (and 2413s) and saw the connections for them vs the 2413u? That explains why it doesn't work with the isy

Couple of things. Make sure you exclude then include. Unless all of your devices support network wide inclusion, you will need to bring it closer to the Isy. Also ensure NWI is turned on in the Isy. Regardless, since they're plug in modules, I'd bring them closer to include.

Does the motion sensor blink when you walk by it

Sounds like Amazon changed something

Had you taken an extra second to click the link, you would've seen that it takes you to the zwave version of the Isy. Your argument is null

The model that it links to is the zwave version so they are doing exactly what you claim they aren't doing. Besides, an existing user could potentially need a new one. All sales aren't always to new customers

They actually aren't selling it. There's no link to purchase it, the link they do have takes you to Amazon and the zwave version. There is also a note in red on the webpage that states they are not selling it.