lilyoyo1

Control 4

I understand your sentiments but when combined with the Isy, missing peripherals are diminished (even with insteon you'd use the isy). It's one thing to do it as a business and another as a diy hobbyist. As a business I wouldn't use Caseta at all except low end homes which I no longer do anyway. My go to is C4. I'd use RR2 otherwise (planning on it once Isy is ported to polisy completely). As a business (and at home) architecture is most important. I need to have utmost confidence when it comes to user experience. Looks are secondary. Having both is just icing on the cake (which is why C4 is my go to). But then again, things like that are personal choices. Lutron does have their Grafik T switches which look alot better than their standard offerings.

I don't need them to expand fast. They already have the devices i want. I can fill in the rest with other stuff. But yes, the chip shortage has hurt things tremendously. I beta test for a couple of companies and there are quite a few devices not yet released due to it

I get what your saying and I understand how you feel. Keep in mind though that Luton is also in the high end/luxury market. Caseta was developed for people who wanted the name without the price. That's why Mercedes has the A class all the way up to the Maybach line. Maybach for those with the budget. A class for those without the funds who wants the name. There are subtle differences in how things work with them which may not be apparant to most people from the outside. If you do decide to switch though- you will see a huge difference in operation. My hope with the new insteon switches is that they open things up by the time we start on our next house as I'd love to use those. Thankfully construction costs exploded so we held off. If they don't open it up by then, I'm going with C4.

I respect Lutron for the classes. Their product is their name. A novice person installing it without any understanding can ruin that name. It's bad enough in dealing with complaints due to bad installers, imagine how bad it could be from end users. This is especially so the larger the project and greater cost. I have no issues with the product line either. Every company does it. Look at the Isy. You have the base version, pro, zwave, polisy, and polisy pro. All going up in price. UDI could have simply came out with the 994iz ir pro and not had anything else. Ditto for polisy pro. Yet they've done the same handicapping to offer lower priced options.

Lutron! Polisy supports caseta and Ra2. Not sure about select. However, they do have an API that would allow for further development so one could use the Isy to offer more capability than what Lutron supplies. Caseta has a place with it's low price entry point. This becomes even more appealing when coupled with the Isy. Scalability isn't as much of an issue as most people homes are probably within the 50 device limit. It's not the size of the house that matters but load count. Those with larger homes, Ra2 select can handle up to 99 devices (repeater takes 1 from the 100 limit). While more expensive, if a person is playing in that bag park, most likely they have the finances to install- especially if they do it over time. Ditto for Ra2. You're not finding a small home with an extremely high load count. To have a need for 200 devices, one most likely has a mansion. Lutron offers a free course so the end user can program their own system. Unless you need multiple repeaters it's simply am investment in time. Even the advanced class is affordable at 650 bucks. While not free, if one could afford RR2 prices and lots of devices- what's a 650 dollar investment?

It's not wanting power users to exist. The market has changed. In the beginning, only power users wanted this type of stuff. We were the majority. Now that the masses are on board, we are the minority. That's the business world- follow the money

They have an ID and qr code that can be scanned

I agree with your zwave points. It's one of my sticking points with it. You can't simply buy a device and know it will "just work" and how to make it work. I couldn't imagine being non techie and having to set a whole house up with it. The new hub and app is extremely simple to set devices up from beginning to end. Outside of system glitches, you have to purposely not want to get something added and configured. Device installation will always be tricky due to the nature of installations but even there it helps you of you don't know how. I've always thought the hub was simple but this makes it 10x easier

Technology is always changing but not every company can afford to be the one to take that risk. Look at how many billions Sony has lost over the years trying to do that. How many protocols google, Amazon, and Microsoft tried to come out and "fix" things. Look at apple and Homekit. Insteon is not one of those companies. They are a very small company.....less than 30 employees (outside of subcontractors). For them to try to anticipate and be the first to the next big thing would ensure their downfall. The best that most companies can do is adapt to an ever changing market. Mass market has spoken and said they don't want what we have. Countless times, I've seen people with perfectly good camera systems "upgrade" them to ring....even after being educated on the cons. When I talk to people about automation, as much as people love to hear the capabilities, they're happy and satisfied with simply turning on lights with their voice or simple timer. All the extra interactive stuff has limited appeal. These are the people insteon is going for. In reality, most consumers don't really care about protocol. They go off what they read and hear. While Nokia isn't the giant they once were, people still know the name and for the most part associate it with good memories. Looking into their overall business, it continues to grow and with that so will their name. There is more than enough money to go around with different smarthome companies. Insteon doesnt need to be the biggest or best

Well said. You're right about their partnerships hurting them more than it helping them....ALOT....That and trying to be first with Homekit. Its not that they don't care completely about Isy users....power users simply aren't their priority anymore. Their needs are great and it's not cheap to keep them happy. It's like driving an exotic car. Sure, it's hot, fast, and popular but it also drains your wallet.

Wow- no argument.....What have you done with my Teken you imposter

That is where you are wrong. Most of their base uses an insteon hub. Isy users may be more active and passionate but the majority of their sales are hub sales. Besides that, even if they did consider Isy users- most aren't going to drop a well functioning system to run out and replace it with all new switches just because. Time effort, and finances all play a part in that. If you read back through past posts on here, the reasons behind this are already laid out so I'm not going to rehash. In short however, they are going for new customers. Regardless of how you may look at UDI and the Isy, there are still thousands of times more untapped potential customers. They have their plan and as Michel already knows, the Isy and other systems are not part of it at this time.

It's all about choosing the right system for the situation. Lutron itself is geared towards lighting design not automation. This is something it does 100x better than insteon and any other diy setup. Even other high end systems fall short on what lutein can do with LEDs. This is why I say the devil is in the details. For a long lasting system with lighting being emphasized, no one can compete. A person building a multi million dollar home wants certain things that insteon and other diy systems simply cannot match. Using Polisy, one could integrate RR2 with the Isy and turn those systems into automation systems so the lack of certain capabilities becomes moot.

They won't. At some point, once the line has matured that may change. However, at this point this will not happen

There's a whole debate/discussion on another thread about this and the path they are taking at this time. It's not a lack of brains but a decision to take a different path

You will have to use their hub. I explained in an earlier post what happens with the Isy

I don't think he realizes it's more of a licensing thing than actual ownership

Who says they can? Additionally, larger companies typically have more buying power than smaller companies. It's why you'll see Amazon carrying stuff that your local dealer may not be able to get right now.

Post pictures of your programming. No one can tell you definitively with so little information.

Not much. Just making its price point low to increase adoption. It wouldn't surprise me if the price goes up down the road. Same thing happened with the hub

None of them are supported by the Isy. While they will add as an unsupported device, you will not receive device status from them or change modes ie: the dimmer will not be able to become a relay and the relay will not be able to become a dimmer. You can send basic commands from the Isy but that would be it. Your suspicion would be incorrect. UDI has already stated their stance in regards to these devices and no, they will not be supporting them AT ALL without full documentation and support from smartlabs which will not happen anytime soon. There is a much bigger divide between these devices and standard insteon devices than you realize. The only similarity between these and standard devices is how they communicate. UDI could reverse engineer the protocol for basic support. However without the API and access to insteon servers, most of the differentiating features would be left out

RR2 is much more than caseta at 3x the price. Surface comparisons i get what you're saying but that's like saying a Ferrari is a Corvette that's triple the price. The devil is in the details. The new line is really nice can't argue about anything you're saying. The look and feel is top notch for it's price range. However, placed next to control 4 or RR2 it runs out of steam quickly (they look better than RR2). Especially in usage. The cool thing about RR2 is that it can be integrated with the Isy, so that argument loses steam. I have much more information about the new line than you do which is why I say it's not ready for luxury homes (our definition of luxury homes may be different as well). The Isy would help alleviate some of my concerns but even then, the lineup is too limited for me.

I think syntax. Wanting to say open or close instead of on/off

In theory yes it could. However that would take a BIG BIG IF! It still wouldn't change anything since the hub would become a defacto PLM.