Wireless Thermostat Weird Issue

[jmed999]

Something funky is going on with my wireless thermostat (2441TZH). I have it in my garage and I have a program that e-mails me the temp at sunrise everyday…

 

If

Time is sunrise

And status is temp <=50

And status is temp >49

Then

Send notification “temp is 50â€

 

Note: I have programs and notifications for all temps between 35 and 95 degrees.

 

The reason for the “<=50 and >49 is due to the ISY admin control reading 49.5 degrees.

 

The problem is this morning at sunrise I get an e-mail telling me the garage is 51 but the ISY said it was 49.5, Mobilinc said it was 49, the temp on the stat display said 50. I’m guessing Mobilinc is just taking the 1st 2 digits and the stat is rounding the true temp of 49.5 up to 50 for the display. No problem there but why are the e-mails saying 51? According to the program above I would expect it to send me an e-mail stating the temp is 50.

 

Any ideas?

[Xathros]

jmed999-

 

2 things. First, what firmware are you running on the ISY? If 4.0.1, the temp is not being updated in the ISY without a query. Mobilinc and the admin console are in agreement with each other. I suspect the temp has just not updated in the ISY.

 

Second, why all those programs just to send the temp? You can send the temp in a customized email using variable substitution with: sys.node.AA BB CC 1.ST where AA BB CC is the address of your thermostat. Then just one program like:

 

 

If
Time is sunrise

Then
Send notification “Current Tempâ€

 

Here is the string I use in an email customization: Current Temperature is ${sys.node.11 B2 7 1.ST}

My Venstar address is: 11.B2.07 I had to drop the 0 from 07 to make it work. You can get status from any node in this way. Also some other useful stuff. See this section of the Wiki: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Custom_Email_Substitution_Variables

 

 

-Xathros

[LeeG]

As an FYI, not updating the Admin display also occurs at 3.3.10.

[Xathros]

As an FYI, not updating the Admin display also occurs at 3.3.10.

 

 

I don't think I was having any trouble until 4.0.1. The console was staying accurate and my programs were executing properly for me until then. This is with a Venstar/Insteon Adapter.

 

-Xathros

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi LeeG,

 

Are you certain? We did find the issue in 4.0.1 branch.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

Michel

 

I thought I had seen a post from a user on 3.3.10 that I confirmed with my 2441TH. I may have already been on 4.0.x when I verified or the user must have been on 4.0.1. I thought the user reported the symptom before 4.0.1 was released. I'll go back to 3.3.10 and see if I can recreate.

 

EDIT: I checked the dates and I had to be on 4.0.1 when I did my test.

 

My apologies, I was wrong about it occurring on 3.3.10.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi LeeG,

 

Thanks SO very much for verifying.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[jmed999]

jmed999-

 

2 things. First, what firmware are you running on the ISY? If 4.0.1, the temp is not being updated in the ISY without a query. Mobilinc and the admin console are in agreement with each other. I suspect the temp has just not updated in the ISY.

 

 

I'm running 3.3.8. So what is the issue? Thanks for your help!

[jmed999]

Second, why all those programs just to send the temp? You can send the temp in a customized email using variable substitution with: sys.node.AA BB CC 1.ST where AA BB CC is the address of your thermostat. Then just one program like:

 

 

If
Time is sunrise

Then
Send notification “Current Tempâ€

 

Here is the string I use in an email customization: Current Temperature is ${sys.node.11 B2 7 1.ST}

My Venstar address is: 11.B2.07 I had to drop the 0 from 07 to make it work. You can get status from any node in this way. Also some other useful stuff. See this section of the Wiki: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Custom_Email_Substitution_Variables

 

 

-Xathros

 

Wow...thanks! I asked this question before ( http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9836&hilit=+programs ) but I guess I didn't get the correct response. Thanks again!

[Xathros]

jmed999-

 

That other thread occurred before I became enlightened with the above knowledge otherwise I would have offered it back then!

 

-Xathros

[Xathros]

jmed999-

 

2 things. First, what firmware are you running on the ISY? If 4.0.1, the temp is not being updated in the ISY without a query. Mobilinc and the admin console are in agreement with each other. I suspect the temp has just not updated in the ISY.

 

 

I'm running 3.3.8. So what is the issue? Thanks for your help!

 

Unfortunately, no. You should however upgrade to 3.3.10 (The official release) but that I'm afraid is not the issue with the temp updates.

 

So, now we are down to communication issues or link record issues. Is this stat on battery power or powered by the line somehow?

 

Run an event viewer level 3 trace showing a few setpoint changes from the admin console as well as a few from the stat. If you can change the temp in the vicinity of the stat (Hair dryer, open garage door etc) and capture that traffic, I'm sure that would be helpful as well. Post the trace.

 

-Xathros

[jmed999]

I just upgraded to 3.3.10. It runs off battery power.

[whywork]

Hi,

 

I have my Wireless Thermostat 2441ZTH communicating with my ISY994i running 4.0.3.

 

Both ISY and Mobilinc report the Thermostat temperature correctly.

 

I am having a problem with sending an email with the thermostat temperature via customized email content (text, not HTML nor XML).

 

${alert.body}

Outside Temp is ${mod.weather.temp.current}

Thermostat Temp is ${sys.node.22 E 1B 1.ST}

 

The email I receive is:

 

Temp Alert

A Schedule was met at 2013/05/14 11:07:28 AM

 

Outside Temp is 46 �F

Thermostat Temp is ST

 

 

Note that the weatherbug temperature displays a question mark inside a diamond, not the degree symbol, in my Outlook email client that usually does a good job of displaying fonts/graphics images.

 

The biggest problem is that the Thermostat temperature does not display any temperature value (it just shows "ST')

 

I tried changing ${sys.node.22 E 1B 1.ST} to ${sys.node.22 0E 1B 1.ST} (the full explicit thermostat address with the "0" added back) and the email displays:

 

Thermostat is node[22 0E 1B 1]

 

Any suggestions on how to email the wireless thermostat temperature and fix the degree symbol?

 

Thanks

[Xathros]

whywork-

 

I had to change the character encoding in Thunderbird from UTF-8 to Western (ISO-8859-1) to fix the degree display in my ISY emails. Dunno exactly how to do that in Outlook. Oddly, My iPhone always displayed it correctly.

 

-Xathros

[whywork]

Hi,

 

OK, I let the Temp alert program run overnight and got almost 20 emails with correct outside temps but thermostat "ST":

 

Outside Temp is 28 �F

Thermostat is ST

 

However I also noted that My 2441ZTH Wireless Thermostat was not always "visible" to the my ISY994i. I checked via Mobilinc just before I went to bed and the temperature displayed was - a dash.

 

This AM I checked via Mobilinc and the inside temperature (via thermostat) was 57 degrees. I forced my ISY Temp Alert program to run and received this email:

 

Outside Temp is 28 �F

Thermostat is 57.50�

 

Yay! I got a "real" thermostat temperature reading.

 

So it seems that if the ISY9941 does not have a temperature reading from the 2441ZTH, I get "funny" email alerts.

 

Here is my alert trigger program

if

Module 'Climate' Temperature < 0 °F

Or Status 'Thermostat - Main' <= 45° (Temperature)

Then

Send Notification to 'Default'

 

My email custom content syntax is listed in my posts above

 

 

I still have some questions:

 

1) Why do I get any email alerts when there the Thermostat is "missing" not communicating. I got almost 20 emails, what is the trigger? Certainly last night there was not a low temperature below the limits of 0 deg outside or 45 inside.

 

2) Why does the variable Thermostat is ${sys.node.22 E 1B 1.ST} send Thermostat is "ST" when there is "no temperature" I would have expected a blank, or a dash, but not "ST"

 

3) Is it possible the "trigger" of sending an email temperature alert is because the wireless thermostat is re-communicating/losing communication? (maybe 20 times last night) If this is the case, then I believe it could be handled better. Wireless devices will always be missing and reappear. If a device re-appears and has a value that is not a trigger value (ie the temperature is not below the cold trigger) then it should not trigger an event. If the device disappears, that should not trigger a "cold" value either. I remain confused.

 

 

 

Also, thanks. Yes the degree symbol is correctly displayed on my apple device too.

 

Your help and suggestions are welcomed.

[Xathros]

whywork-

 

I suspect that the invalid (blank) value when your thermostat is not displayed is treated as < 45 and is triggering the send. Maybe you could say:

 

If temp >0

and temp is <=45

 

-Xathros

[whywork]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the idea about "loss of communication" looking like "0" zero or invalid and a potential work around.

 

I don't think your suggestion can be implemented because -

If clause Status Thermostat Is (or < or =), can only choose from dropdown values starting at 1 Degree, no Zero degree available.

 

There is an interesting dropdown "value" available, called "Responding". However, I don't think this will work either, because I believe that wireless devices are only "responding" when they are in active linking mode, not when they "send" a value. Is my impression about responding correct? Because the wireless thermostat would never be "responding" in normal usage.

 

So:

 

1) If my wireless thermostat is communicating, then my program emails me the correct outside and inside temp

 

2) If my wireless thermostat is NOT communicating then

a) "random" emails are sent being potentially triggered by invalid "zero" values

custom email variable ${sys.node.22 E 1B 1.ST} is being evaluated as "ST", not as a numeric value, not as zero and not "blank"

 

Still some mystery here for me to understand.

[Xathros]

whywork-

 

Sorry about that. I just checked and my thermostat (Venstar) is the same in regards to not being able select less than 1 for a test.

 

So then, how about:

 

If Temp >=1

and temp is <=45

 

Again, hoping and assuming that the invalid temp will register as 0 in this test.

 

-Xathros

[LeeG]

You are correct in that 'is Responding' will not work. However, it is because it will always be 'is Responding' unless the ISY has had problems writing updates to the thermostat.

 

I think your Program is being triggered because of the check of temperature from the climate module. Every time the climate temp changes, which would be many times over a 24 hour period, the Program is triggered. The specific check itself of below 0 does not drive the Then clause but because the 2441ZTH temp is ORed the compare of a blank value causes the Then clause to run.

 

I don't see any real difference between 0 and 1 degree in this situation so

 

if

Module 'Climate' Temperature < 0 °F

Or

{

Status 'Thermostat - Main' >= 1° (Temperature)

And Status 'Thermostat - Main' <= 45° (Temperature)

}

Then

Send Notification to 'Default'

 

will probably prevent the false emails. Once the 2441ZTH sends a temperature message the ISY will remember that temperature until the ISY is rebooted. Remember though that being a battery device the 2441ZTH sends a message far less frequently than if it was under line power.

 

EDIT: you got there first this time

[whywork]

Hi,

 

Thanks for both replies.

 

Rebooting the ISY - LeeG you made me remember that for various reasons, I had been rebooting my ISY; that (along with where my wireless thermostat temporarily placed) may have been one of the reasons there was no Thermostat message (for convenience, currently my wireless thermostat has been living in a very temperature stable location in my basement, and thus may not update often).

 

Since this my program, I am going to spend some more time on debugging/learning.

 

For testing purposes I have split the trigger conditions into two separate programs.

One program looks only at the weatherbug outside temp, the Second program only looks at the wireless thermostat.

 

I am going to let them both run for a while and see what kind of alerts I get.

 

Again, thanks for your help.

[whywork]

Hi,

 

Thanks to LeeG and Xathros, I have email alerts from low outside (weatherbug) and/or low wireless thermostat (2441ZTH – battery only) temperature working (ISY 4.0.4)

The program below works great:

 

if

Module 'Climate' Temperature < 0 °F

Or

{

Status 'Thermostat - Main' >= 1° (Temperature)

And Status 'Thermostat - Main' <= 45° (Temperature)

}

Then

Send Notification to 'Default'

 

Custom Email Content

${sys.node.22 E 1B 1.ST}

 

Here are some things I learned on the way - (note I am currently just using the wireless 2441ZTH as a “sensor†and it is not physically connected, nor is there any other hardwired insteon thermostat installed)

 

Thermostat communication:

 

1. When does the thermostat communicate with ISY? After the ISY reboots, and if the thermostat has battery power but is “OFF†(not heat, not cool, not auto), then the ISY will not show any temperature. The thermostat will show the correct temp/humidity but the ISY shows nothing (and I believe “stores†an INVALID value for temp –see below). Even if the thermostat experiences changes in temperature greater than two degrees (I believe two degree changes trigger the thermostat to communicate) the ISY will still have no value for temp. I watched for 24 hours, warmed the thermostat, put the thermostat in the freezer, and still the ISY did not update when the thermostat was “OFFâ€.

 

2. If the thermostat is put into any non-OFF mode (heat, cool, auto), then any two degree temperature change, or setting change (setpoint up, setpoint down) will immediately be received by ISY and the ISY will display/know the correct temperature.

 

3. The part I don’t yet understand. After the ISY “receives†the first temperature when in non-OFF mode, if the thermostat RETURNED to “OFF “ mode, then the ISY will CONTINUE to receive correct temperature readings from the thermostat (i.e. a two degree change in temperature will be immediately received by ISY) until the next reboot of the ISY. Why does the ISY only start/continue to “monitor†the thermostat when it has been “initiated†by a non-OFF mode? A mystery to me.

 

Bounds checking:

 

1. When my program evaluated 'Thermostat - Main' <= 45° (Temperature) and the ISY had not “received†any temperature value, then the ISY still evaluated it as TRUE.

 

2. When my program called the variable ${sys.node.22 E 1B 1.ST} and the ISY had not “received†any temperature value, then the ISY evaluated the variable as “ST.â€

 

3. I believe that the ISY, when it has not yet received a valid temperature, has an INVALID value for the temperature.

 

4. IF the ISY were performing bounds checking and the temperature was “missing†then:

a. 'Thermostat - Main' <= 45° (Temperature) would be FALSE

b. ${sys.node.22 E 1B 1.ST} would return some nominal warning value/notification and not substitute “STâ€

 

5. The work around is to have the program perform bounds checks. That is accomplished by

a. Status 'Thermostat - Main' >= 1° (Temperature)

And Status 'Thermostat - Main' <= 45° (Temperature)

 

I use and enjoy my ISY every day. It is powerful, flexible and robust. I still have a lot to learn about programming it.

 

Thanks for providing this forum and to the contributors.

[LeeG]

whywork

 

What is the firmware level of the 2441ZTH? I have one at v.0B which does report temperature changes while in Off mode after an ISY reboot. Since yours does report when in Off mode after going to some mode other than Off and then back to Off I am wondering what was different about the initial Off mode. Had the batteries just been inserted? The ISY reports temp message received regardless of thermostat mode. The thermostat mode was Off before reboot and Off after reboot. As soon as I raised the ambient temp of the 2441ZTH it sent a temp message which the ISY immediately displayed. Perhaps a difference in how the 2441ZTH firmware works?

 

Of course the 2441ZTH would not report temp changes in the freezer as RF messages could not travel out of a metal box but I would have expected it to report temp changes as it warmed up assuming the 2441ZTH was in range of a Dual Band device as it warmed up.

 

I am running 4.0.4

[whywork]

Hi,

 

ISY reports my 2441ZTH is v.0D (I am not at the location so I can't inspect the thermostat to see the hardware version).

 

The thermostat was always battery powered, never had battery removed/reinserted - thermostat never "rebooted."

 

I too am puzzled by "initial OFF mode" behavior.

 

Will repeat some of my thermostat tests this weekend (when I am physically back at thermostat) and report any new findings.

[whywork]

Some follow up.

 

Listening but Not Hearing

 

Setup:

ISY 994i/IR Pro v.4.0.4, Wireless Thermostat 2441ZTH V1.1 v.0D set to “master†on battery only , dual band PLM v9B less than 10 feet from thermostat.

 

Problem:

Finding out why ISY sometimes displayed “blank†values for temperature from wireless thermostat even after days/significant temperature changes (that should have triggered temperature updates)

 

Some data:

MODE OFF and REBOOT – OK

Chill thermostat in refrigerator. Thermostat mode OFF. Reboot ISY (Configuration/System/Reboot – “warm bootâ€). Warming thermostat – ISY gets temperature update in minutes

 

MODE OFF and POWER CYCLE – Not OK

Chill thermostat in refrigerator. Thermostat mode OFF. Reboot ISY (remove ISY AC/DC adapter from wall, wait 60 seconds, replug ISY AC/DC adapter – “cold bootâ€). Warming thermostat – ISY gets NO temperature update (can go for days like this)

 

Note Bene: Changing mode at thermostat (to HEAT, COOL etc) causes ISY temperature update to begin

 

MODE HEAT and POWER CYCLE – OK

Chill thermostat in refrigerator. Thermostat mode NOT OFF but HEAT (or AUTO or COOL). Reboot ISY (remove ISY AC/DC adapter from wall, wait 60 seconds, replug ISY AC/DC adapter – “cold bootâ€). Warming thermostat – ISY gets temperature update in mintutes

 

Conclusions:

After “cold boot†power cycle of ISY, wireless thermostat temperature data only updated if wireless thermostat is NOT in OFF Mode (or has been temporarily set to NOT OFF mode)

 

After “warm boot†of ISY, wireless thermostat temperature data is updated even if wireless thermostat is in OFF mode.

 

For “fail safe†operation (potential power outages) where wireless thermostat temperature information at ISY is important, the wireless thermostat must NOT be in OFF mode.

[LeeG]

whywork

 

When running these tests have the Event Viewer running at LEVEL 3 while the thermostat is being warmed. The key is whether there is a cmd1=6E (temp change) message coming from the thermostat as it is warming. A temp change message being received (please post message) without the new temp being displayed would indicate an ISY question. I suspect the temp change message is not being received but the only way to know that for sure is to have the Event Viewer running at LEVEL 3 while the thermostat is warming.

 

Sun 05/26/2013 09:30:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.0F.B4 22.80.0B 01 6E 2D (2D)