ISY-99i and the Insteon Smoke Bridge

[phawtrey]

I have five First Alert ONELINK smoke detectors and, of course, the Insteon Smoke Bridge.

I managed to link to the smoke bridge but I am not sure what the ISY Main Network panel is telling me.

 

It looks like this:

Network

ISY

23.50.6A-Smoke

23.50.6A - CO2

23.50.6A-Low Bat

 

Has anyone any experience setting up these devices with the ISY and if so, can you tell me what these entries mean?

i.e. am I looking at one smoke detector or three of the five?

How can I determine which entry corresponds to which smoke detector?

[LeeG]

The Smoke Bridge does not identify which smoke detector.

 

Each node represents the condition indicated by the node name. CO2 represents CO. Note that the 4.x.x beta has additional nodes. Running a 99i the 4.x.x beta stream cannot be installed so the additional nodes are not important.

[phawtrey]

Thank you LeeG.

 

I gather, then, that the Bridge with address 23.50.6A is indicating that it can detect three different conditions from my smoke detectors:

Smoke, CO and Low Battery?

 

That is, when the alarms go off their signal will indicate the condition that caused the alarm as one of these three.

 

Am I correct or am I still missing something?

[LeeG]

Exactly right. Of course the appropriate detectors are required. Some detect only smoke, some only CO and some cover both.

 

The nodes with the Insteon address can be renamed to Smoke Bridge or something more meaningful than the Insteon address. I prefer using New INSTEON Device because a meaning Name can be assigned when the device is added to the ISY.

[phawtrey]

Thank you LeeG.

 

Regarding programming the ISY for the Smoke Bridge.

 

If I want to write a program to send myself an email if a smoke detector triggers, what state in the Smoke Bridge do I look for.

There seems to be only three states allowed in the Condition option for Status - Responding, On or Off.

At the moment there is no current state posted for any one of the three conditions.

[LeeG]

For that I would use

 

"If Control 'Smoke Bridge - Smoke' is switched On

Or Control 'Smoke Bridge - CO' is switched On

Then

Notify....

 

Using 'If Control' will get a Notify each time the Smoke Bridge activates either node. Once the Status goes to ON I'm not sure what turns if back to OFF.

[phawtrey]

Thank you, LeeG. That really helped. I believe I am on my way.

[dss]

Is there a way for the ISY to know which alarm is giving the low battery signal? That is one of the annoyances of my current smoke alarm is that it chirps but can't tell which one is low on battery. You have to walk around and listen for the chirps to try to figure out which one. Do you need multiple OneLink bridges? One for each smoke detector?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi dss,

 

Yes, each Smoke Sensor does indeed have a low battery node.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[dss]

Hi dss,

 

Yes, each Smoke Sensor does indeed have a low battery node.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Can you access them all with one Smoke bridge or do you need multiple bridges?

[LeeG]

Only one Smoke Bridge is needed. A single Smoke Bridge will not identify which Smoke/CO/Low Battery device alarmed.

[Michel Kohanim]

LeeG,

 

Thanks so very much for the clarification. So, ISY will never know the source of events in case there are more than one sensors?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[dss]

Only one Smoke Bridge is needed. A single Smoke Bridge will not identify which Smoke/CO/Low Battery device alarmed.

 

That's too bad. First Alert could have made it so much more useful. If they identified the low battery you could have had it text you to tell you which battery needed to be changed.

[LeeG]

Michel

 

I was using the following link as the source to this topics question. It indicates the Smoke Bridge API does not provide location information which identifies which sensor sent the alarm. There would not be a method of know which sensor sent the Smoke alarm or which sensor sent the CO alarm or which sensor sent the low battery alarm.

 

Question from dss – “Is there a way for the ISY to know which alarm is giving the low battery signal?â€

 

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11017&hilit=smoke+bridge

 

 

I am assuming users would not have a Smoke Bridge for each sensor. That seems like overkill plus the Smoke Bridge is going to react when the linked sensor alert trips which should be when any of the sensors trip. All the sensors are linked together so if any one trips they all trip. Sleeping on the third floor the third floor sensor should trip to wake sleeping residence if the sensor in the basement several floors away trips. That means every Smoke Bridge would trip if a Smoke Bridge existed from every sensor.

 

It would be nice if location, even if it was just some burned in number, was carried along with the alert message but all indications are that is not part of the sensors. Only certain sensors provide location information and that is somewhat general in nature. I have to assume the manufacturer of the sensor made the same ROI evaluation as any business would as did SmartLabs in deciding what function the Smoke Bridge would provide. The Smoke Bridge is an augment to, not a primary functionary in the alert system. I have seen no change in the stated policy that Insteon should not be used for such purposes.

[dss]

Perhaps it depends on the particular model smoke detector. Because only a few voice smoke detectors have location announcement. It seems like this model the SCO7CN does notify you which detector is going off and which has the low battery. Though I'm not sure if that information is being passed to the Insteon smoke bridge it is certainly being passed from one detector to another:

 

http://www.firstalert.com/detectors/bat ... ion/sco7cn

[LeeG]

That is consistent with what I found as well. Only certain sensors provide the ability to identify the Location and then the Location is one of approx 12 (?) pre-canned words. Better than nothing but not a nice general function available with all their sensors. I think if one wants all the bells and whistles one uses a security system designed with battery backup and zone locations.

[steve4609]

There are specific models with the voice feature which i think is great. I have 6 smoke/CO combo alarms with voice and 4 smoke only alarms with voice. They are all linked together and configured with 1 of the 11 available locations. Other than "Child's Bedroom" which I used for 2 different alarms for rooms right next to each other, all of the alarms have their own location name so if any alarms goes off, ALL of them will announce the location name and whether it is smoke or carbon monoxide. It will be a lot of noise with 10 alarms going off at the same time but what peace of mind to know that I wold instantly know where and what the problem is.

 

Now I bought 2 Smoke Bridges and want to connect everything to my ISY. Will I need 2?

 

With 2 Smoke Bridges, is it possible to link the downstairs alarm with one and the upstairs alarms with the other?

 

If all of the alarms are linked together, does just one need to be within range of the smoke Bridge or does the one initiating the alarm need to be in range?

 

I plan on turning on all of the lights that are either near any alarm or near an exit door and also to send text message or email. Any other suggestions along with answers to my questions will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you,

Steve

[LeeG]

I have more sensors coming the end of the week (I hope) so I can test.

 

I don't think multiple Smoke Bridge devices are needed. Based on the User Guide information I think any one sensor that trips will trip them all and the Smoke Bridge will receive the alarm indication. If it does not work that way I would hope the User Guide would specifically state that all sensors have to be linked to the Smoke Bridge. Is easy to test, link one sensor to the Smoke Bridge and trip another sensor.

[steve4609]

I now have all of my Onelink alarms linked together. I have the Smoke Bridge linked to my ISY 994i IR/PRO. The Smoke Bridge appears in my device list as 3 devices (CO, Smoke, Battery). However, no status appears in ISY and when i press the test button on the side of the Smoke Bridge, the status still does not change. Is there a specific way to press the button to test the link with the ISY and the programs that turn on lights and or send a notification?

[LeeG]

There should be 7 nodes for the Smoke Bridge. What ISY level are you running? It was one of the 4.0.x images that added all the nodes and set up the correct link records.

[junkycosmos]

Question please: What is the proper procedure for linking 4 smoke alarms to the smoke bridge and the ISY?

 

Currently I linked all four alarms to each other, as per directions linking one at a time to previous. This seems to have linked the units great.

 

Linked smoke bridge to set of alarms by putting it in link mode and then clicking 1st alarm. As per LED on smoke bridge it appeared to linc.

 

Then I linked the smoke bridge to the ISY (tried add new device, and left device type to auto discover and it failed so I specified address and device), choose keep existing links. This looks to have worked as I have 7 nodes in ISY.

 

tested: no dice: ISY does not see smoke bridge traffic

 

Next I tried to re-link smoke bridge back to 1 alarm. Again LED on smoke bridge looked correct. Tested by blowing smoke into alarm; the alarm sounded, smoke bridge changed to red but ISY did not update any of the nodes.

 

Also watched event viewer and have nothing for bridge traffic

 

smoke bridge shows as v.43 in consul

ISY 994ir pro on v4.0.4

 

thx

Junkycosmos

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi junkycosmos,

 

We have never tested multiple sensors with one bridge configuration and thus I do not know if it would work at all.

 

If you don't mind, remove the bridge from ISY, do a factory reset on it, link it with the sensor and then add it to ISY using Link Management | Start Linking.

 

As far as traffic, I have yet to see Test produce any traffic. The only traffic I have seen has been based on CO or actual fire.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

This is what I get when I tap the Set button on the Smoke Bridge with v.43 firmware. Five groups/nodes receive messages.

 

Thu 05/23/2013 02:07:59 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 00.00.01 CB 11 80 LTONRR (80)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:07:59 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:07:59 AM : [ 23 50 FD 1] DON 128

Thu 05/23/2013 02:07:59 AM : [ 23 50 FD 1] ST 255

Thu 05/23/2013 02:07:59 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 11.00.01 CB 06 00 (00)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:07:59 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:07:59 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 00.00.02 CB 11 40 LTONRR (40)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:01 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:01 AM : [ 23 50 FD 2] DON 64

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:01 AM : [ 23 50 FD 2] ST 255

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 11.00.02 CB 06 00 (00)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:01 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->11.00.02, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:01 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:06 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 00.00.06 CB 11 10 LTONRR (10)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:06 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->Group=6, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:06 AM : [ 23 50 FD 6] DON 16

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:06 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 11.00.06 CB 06 00 (00)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:06 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->11.00.06, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:06 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:11 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 00.00.07 CB 11 08 LTONRR (08)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:11 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->Group=7, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:11 AM : [ 23 50 FD 7] DON 8

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:11 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 11.00.07 CB 06 00 (00)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:11 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->11.00.07, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:11 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:16 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 00.00.05 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:16 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->Group=5, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:16 AM : [ 23 50 FD 5] DON 0

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:16 AM : [ 23 50 FD 1] ST 0

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:16 AM : [ 23 50 FD 2] ST 0

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:16 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.50.FD 11.00.05 CB 06 00 (00)

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:16 AM : [std-Group ] 23.50.FD-->11.00.05, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 05/23/2013 02:08:16 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Unfortunately my sensor order is back ordered for more than a week so I cannot test with multiple sensors linked to the Smoke Bridge. I don't think you link multiple sensors to the Smoke Bridge as they are all linked between themselves so the one linked to the Smoke Bridge will provide the needed alarm messages.

 

Note that the various sensors are not "linked" to the smoke bridge using Insteon link database so when the device is added to the ISY the remove existing links (referring to Insteon links, not sensor links) should be selected.

[junkycosmos]

Thx Michel and Lee!

 

That fixed it. Interesting since before the remove, factory reset, re-add (via linking vs direct address) the nodes were on the ISY and the LED on the bridge would change status based on alarm condition but ISY did not see traffic.

 

It is working now.

 

For benefit of others here is what looks to have worked

 

started with 2 smoke only and 2 smoke + CO alarms (all battery)

1. linked all four alarms to one another following directions in boxes that have you daisy chaining the alarms. Its clear that when you link 3rd and 4th alarm that they all group up into one group.

 

2. factory reset smoke bridge

 

3. linked smoke bridge to last (4th) alarm, per bridge directions: plugged in bridge and clicked set button, then pushed test button on 4th alarm. LED on bridge confirmed and then units continued through test cycle

 

4. linked smoke bridge to ISY via start linking on ISY, then press of SET button on smoke bridge, choose remove existing links

 

5. tested with actual smoke

a. tested smoke at 4th alarm; all alarms sound and bridge changed to red, ISY changed smoke to yes

b. tested smoke at 1st alarm; all alarms sound and bridge changed to red, ISY changed smoke to yes

 

All good news here; smoke node changes ON and back OFF when alarm stops

 

few other notes

i. watching the power LEDs on the smoke alarms you can see when they are communicating with each other via onelink, the power light blinks fast when they are 'talking, linking etc'

ii. the alarm where smoke was applied would have its power light start blinking fast for 2-3 seconds BEFORE sounding the siren, all four of the alarms would then sound at nearly same time with the smoke bridge in sync too.

 

iii. I believe I saw insteon traffic from the smoke bridge when the power leds started flashing before the sirens started and then more insteon traffic from smoke bridge when the sirens started

 

 

 

Communications to TEST node. It does look that the smoke bridge communicates when the TEST buttons are pressed too.

1. pressing test button on any of the four smoke detector units starts test.

a. They all blink

b. smoke bridge changes from green to blinking red

c. ISY event viewer sees traffic, ISY changes TEST node to ON

d. all four units start sounding

e. ISY event viewer sees more traffic

f. units complete test sounds

g. smoke bridge changes from blinking red back to green

h. NO traffic in event viewer from smoke bridge <<<<--- PROBLEM ???

i. ISY Test node does not change to OFF

 

I tried the above scenario 4x with same result. But noted that 2nd try the TEST node in ISY was still showing as ON. Can someone check the event viewer below to confirm that the BRIDGE is not sending TEST node to OFF after test ?

 

Here is the event viewer log from doing one test cycle.

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.4E.88 00.00.03 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:48 AM : [std-Group ] 23.4E.88-->Group=3, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:48 AM : [ 23 4E 88 3] DON 0

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.4E.88 11.00.03 CB 06 00 (00)

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:48 AM : [std-Group ] 23.4E.88-->11.00.03, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:48 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:59 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.4E.88 00.00.03 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:59 AM : [std-Group ] 23.4E.88-->Group=3, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:59 AM : [ 23 4E 88 3] DON 0

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:59 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.4E.88 11.00.03 CB 06 00 (00)

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:59 AM : [std-Group ] 23.4E.88-->11.00.03, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 05/23/2013 11:03:59 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

 

smoke bridge shows as v.43 in ISY and sticker on unit reads R3.0 0513 (sticker is clearly on top of old version sticker)

[junkycosmos]

Posting followup

After 5 months of having these alarms linked to the ISY I have very positive results to report. They have tripped twice times. All staying in sync perfectly.

 

False alarms in kitchen from cooking:

Steam has false tripped the kitchen unit twice to say fire from a massive over boiling pot which is of mild announce but the silence button works great and I am not talking about just a little steam here. Yesterday we receive a voice alert (no siren tone) through all of the units stating "malfunction in kitchen unit", first time we have heard that and again we had a massive steam over boiling. The voice alert did sync across all of the units which was helpful since it reported "Kitchen Malfunction" however the ISY did not alert has me suspect the smoke bridge was not triggered. Retested the kitchen unit with blowing smoke into it and all units including the ISY alerted as expected. Interesting that 2 steam / pot over boil events tripped fire and the 3rd triggered "malfunction".

 

Adding units later:

Tonight I added two more units to the chain. Was very easy. Followed the directions in the package stating hold down test button on new unit while closing batt drawer till it beeps, then pushed test button on one of the old units until the new one beeped and went into room setup mode. Then immediately added the 2nd new unit to the 1st new unit in same manner. Tested by blowing smoke into the 2nd new unit. Just as before the power light flickers before alarm starts but all units alerted and ISY alerted too.

 

Granted it would be ideal if the smoke bridge "knew" which alarm was triggered as doing custom alerts or programs would be really nice however I really like having our smoke and co alarms connected to the ISY.

 

Thanks to the UDI Gang for Supporting the Smoke bridge !

 

J