Do old I1 Modules Mess Up I2CS Communications?

[Brian H]

I know a few of the users here have done extensive signal testing and observations.

 

I have one I2CS 2456S3 ApplianceLinc and one I2 ApplianceLinc in my system. The rest are all I1 Modules.

It seems like trying to read the one I2CS ApplianceLinc has large issues.

Many times I will get maybe two or three links listed and the last one the ISY994i would expect is the 00.00.00.00.00.00.00.00

Also the Event Viewer in Level 3 when interrogating the module. Seems to pause between received commands and my old

I1 and I2 peek and pokes reads actually progress in a much more timely manner. Even though the data is slower as each line is less data.

 

I have tried having the AppliancLinc on the same branch circuit as the PLM and one of my Access Points. Similar slow progressions.

 

So have any of the experts in Insteon Messaging. Found the old I1 modules; mess up I2CS communications?

 

Below is a Event Viewer Level 3 doing a read link database on the unit. Unit in its normal location. Should be eight links.

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:33 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 22 B2 40 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:33 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 22.B2.40 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2 06 (00)

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:33 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.B2.40 19.70.1A 2B 2F 00 (00)

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:33 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 22.B2.40-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:33 AM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 22 B2 40 19 70 1A 11 2F 00 01 01 0F FF 00 A2 00 19 70 1A FF 1F 00 5E

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:33 AM : [Ext-Direct ] 22.B2.40-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:33 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 22 B2 40 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:33 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 22.B2.40 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 06 (00)

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:35 AM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 22 B2 40 19 70 1A 17 2F 00 01 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:35 AM : [Ext-Direct ] 22.B2.40-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:35 AM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:36 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.B2.40 19.70.1A 26 2F 00 (00)

 

Wed 12/11/2013 07:38:36 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 22.B2.40-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=1

[Xathros]

I believe LeeG indicated that the I1 modules (Icon ?) do not repeat extended commands. They do not directly interfere with I2 or I2CS but they do not help much with building an I2 compliant mesh. For this reason, device adds need to happen in proximity to the PLM as the I1 modules will not pass the necessary extended commands down the line if out of direct range. I suspect you are running into the same thing when querying the I2 and I2CS module link databases.

 

I only have one or two old modules left and have not noticed an issue but the vast majority of my mesh is I2 and I2CS

 

-Xathros

[ELA]

Hello Brian,

 

I feel fortunate to have rid myself of all old i1 modules.

My understanding was that they did not repeat extended messages? If true then your network could be weakened by those i1 devices not repeating i2CS (extended messages). Not so much messing up messages but not helping by repeating them. Not i2CS so much as the fact that that the protocol utilizes extended messages more.

 

Even with no i1 modules I have seen strange communications issues with a couple of i2CS APLs in my network.

That I attributed to the APL itself since other modules worked fine in the same location.

 

I know LeeG has an opinion on this.

[Brian H]

Well since I only have one I2CS 2456S3. I may just put it in the spares box and use a I2 module in its place. Though it functions OK. Just Link Database things may need it moved to the PLMs location.

 

Now that the 2456S3 is discontinued and I debated getting some with the Black Friday 20% off sale.

I may just keep using my old spares until all are gone.

The replacement Dual Band ones don't support X10 and I still use an X10 address for my 16 button X10 Palm Pad remote.

[Xathros]

I never bothered with setting X10 addresses in any of my Insteon modules. Instead, in the few cases I wanted Insteon to respond to X10, I have the ISY watch for the X10 event and call an Insteon Scene.

 

-Xathros

[LeeG]

The older I1 devices do not understand Extended messages. The old pluggable SignaLinc (black external antenna) we used to couple had to be replaced when I2 devices started shipping. Remember the effort Smarthome went through to practically give away Access Points when exchanged for a pair of old SignaLincs.

 

The I2CS devices surface the Extended message problem because the Peek/Poke commands have been removed from the device firmware. I had to install a Dual Band SwitchLinc at the end of a long run of I1 devices when I replaced a defective KPL. Goes to show how much each device being a repeater helps powerline comm. The old I1 devices don't block the Extended messages but also do not repeat them. Could not configure the new KPL until adding the RF SwitchLinc next to the KPL.

[Brian H]

Thank you to everyone who provided information.

 

I tried test with a spare HW 1.6 Access Point in the same outlet as the problem ApplianceLinc is connected to.

Show Device Link Table was 100% correct and fast message speeds. As the Extended Messages where rapidly processed.

 

I also made a unscientific observation. My older Hardware Revision 1.6 2443 Access Points.

Have a much better RF range than my present Hardware Revision 2.5's do.

Could be the old ones have a daughter card with a better antenna placement over the ones on the 2.? main board models.

 

My 2413S PLM can also pass the Beacon Test from a HW 1.0 or 1.6 2443 Access Point in the living room outlet where the HW 2.5 Access Point is normally connected. It doesn't even show any LED actions with the HW 2.5 Access Point.