stusviews Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I was using the Hub in conjunction with the ISY, but now that the ISY works with Echo the Hub is retired, Link to comment
Jamison_IO Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi Jamison_IO, No integration with INSTOEN HUB is planned. ISY now works with Echo just in case that's what you are interested in. With kind regards, Michel I just saw that! Thanks. Link to comment
aaronburnlab Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi Jamison_IO, No integration with INSTOEN HUB is planned. ISY now works with Echo just in case that's what you are interested in. With kind regards, Michel Hi Michael, what about the Logitech HUB/Ultimate Remote ? I spent ages trying to get Logitec IR to talk to ISY and do simple things and gave up, I would LOVE to have my remote activities integrate with my ISY (which I love).. They have many modules now, their Insteon integration is pretty nice.. https://support.myharmony.com/en-us/compatibility Cheers Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi aaronburnlab, We sent three emails to Logitech for access to their developer APIs and all were ignored. We even sent an email to their gaming division which responded and forwarded us back to the same email that ignores us. We really cannot do anything till we have access to the API to figure out the best path forward. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
Silversop Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 From a new guy in this space... Let me see if I can sum up the 2 pages of discussion covering 2 years... Hub and ISY do not play well together There is no need to have an ISY and a Hub together ISY is preferred if you want the detailed control The UI for Mobilink sucks There are no viable alternatives to Mobilink unless you want to code one yourself… Is that accurate? Link to comment
paulbates Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi and welcome to the forums My answers are inline answers in red From a new guy in this space... Let me see if I can sum up the 2 pages of discussion covering 2 years... Hub and ISY do not play well together The isy uses a serial interface to the PLM, the hubs require Ethernet... so you can't control insteon from an ISY via a hub. Its possible, but tricky, to have the ISY and hub independently control insteon devices. Some people are using both side by side to get the best of both. Again, its tricky to maintain. There is no need to have an ISY and a Hub together. The Hubs have integration to things like homekit, nest and other devices some users want. UDI has closed the gap with official integration to the amazon echo, but there are still things that don't integrate like nest and homekit due to contractual and competitive issues. ISY is preferred if you want the detailed control. Overall yes, that is my view. Especially if you want integrate multiple technologies under the control of a single event / program. That's sure a major advantage for me. Some can argue that Nest and Homekit are detailed control and not possible. The UI for Mobilink sucks Its best to say that there is a gap in mobilinc features and presentation between IOS vs Android. The answer depends on preference, what you've used elsewhere, and what mobile os you're on. There are no viable alternatives to Mobilink unless you want to code one yourself… It depends. I've seen some interesting things done with tasker for Android. That requires technical knowledge but is not coding per se. Is that accurate? Paul Link to comment
Silversop Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Thanks for the reply. I have another question out there http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17902-isyz-wave-compatibility/?p=163701 that I wonder if you can give your 2 cents on Paul... I did receive one reply but looking for a little more detail than was provided. Regards, S Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 What more detail are you looking for? There's lots information on the forum about integrating Hue and Z-Wave thermostats install similar to Insteon thermostats, but you do need the Z-Wave modules. Link to comment
Silversop Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I guess I worded it wrong stusviews, I meant other comments/opinions to the matter... I will do more research as well. Thanks for your help Link to comment
DualBandAid Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I have a follow-up question about simultaneous ISY and Hub usage... Hi and welcome to the forums My answers are inline answers in red Paul Hub and ISY do not play well together The isy uses a serial interface to the PLM, the hubs require Ethernet... so you can't control insteon from an ISY via a hub. Its possible, but tricky, to have the ISY and hub independently control insteon devices. Some people are using both side by side to get the best of both. Again, its tricky to maintain. I underlined the part in question. Let's say that I would like to use both. Can you shed some light on the "tricky" part? I am not talking about using some devices with an ISY (like Device A, B, and C) and some with a Hub (Device D, E, and F) - I am talking about adding the same device to BOTH the Hub and ISY controllers. We can get into reasons later. But this is my understanding. Please tell me if you think I am mistaken. It is fine to simply add devices to both a Hub and ISY Both controllers can independently control said devices... ...but those controllers may not be aware of a state-change that the other controller caused That is not the end of the world (though it may cause problems with programs that require an awareness of state-change) It is probably not a good idea to create "scenes" on both controllers -- pick one (in my case, I would just use the ISY to create scenes) A true/false commentary would be very helpful! Thanks, Steve Link to comment
Teken Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I have a follow-up question about simultaneous ISY and Hub usage... I underlined the part in question. Let's say that I would like to use both. Can you shed some light on the "tricky" part? I am not talking about using some devices with an ISY (like Device A, B, and C) and some with a Hub (Device D, E, and F) - I am talking about adding the same device to BOTH the Hub and ISY controllers. We can get into reasons later. But this is my understanding. Please tell me if you think I am mistaken. It is fine to simply add devices to both a Hub and ISY <- True Both controllers can independently control said devices... <- True ...but those controllers may not be aware of a state-change that the other controller caused <- True That is not the end of the world (though it may cause problems with programs that require an awareness of state-change) <- True It is probably not a good idea to create "scenes" on both controllers -- pick one (in my case, I would just use the ISY to create scenes) <- True A true/false commentary would be very helpful! Thanks, Steve Answers in line . . . This thread will offer more insight and details about how others did the very same: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17271-hub-ii-isy-echo-integration/ Link to comment
paulbates Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I underlined the part in question. Let's say that I would like to use both. Can you shed some light on the "tricky" part? I am not talking about using some devices with an ISY (like Device A, B, and C) and some with a Hub (Device D, E, and F) - I am talking about adding the same device to BOTH the Hub and ISY controllers. We can get into reasons later. But this is my understanding. Please tell me if you think I am mistaken. It is fine to simply add devices to both a Hub and ISY Its possibly ok, but not simple. You have to add new devices to the ISY first, always. There are 3 ISY options for adding insteon devices and 2 of them delete all links in the device (including the hub's), and the other crawls your insteon network for links it finds in a device. When it sees the HUB's link in a device it tries really hard to add it and creates a lot of phantom, unusable scenes in the ISY that have to be deleted. A new device shouldn't have any links, so if add it to the ISY with "Add devices found in links and delete existing links.. its probably ok. Both controllers can independently control said devices...I did try this, its seems to work ...but those controllers may not be aware of a state-change that the other controller caused I saw inconsistent behavior when the device was turned on and off That is not the end of the world (though it may cause problems with programs that require an awareness of state-change) You'll have to decide. If it doesn't work as expected, then ??? I have keypads that drive specific behaviors in my house via the ISY based on switches turned on/off. It is probably not a good idea to create "scenes" on both controllers -- pick one (in my case, I would just use the ISY to create scenes) Its best to say that a lot of testing with a a few "non production" devices should be carried out with the Hub and ISY to determine what works best. Come up with a set of rules (eg install devices on the ISY first) and also the best way to document what you've done. I experimented with a few lamplincs and it proved to be too much work / documentation. I have a prod only system and couldn't risk knocking it out experimenting with this. A couple of final thoughts: What happens if you have a PLM failure and have to swap PLM addresses? I have no idea. You're investing in an experiment that may work out well, or not well, or somewhere in between Its worth reading the information Teken provided. I didn't review it as I had stopped using 2 PLMs a year before it was written. A true/false commentary would be very helpful! Thanks, Steve Link to comment
DualBandAid Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Thank you Teken and Paulbates! I've been waiting for some time to get into this. The time has come. I'll report back. One question, I currently have all my devices connected to an Insteon Hub. Should I factory reset them? Or just do the "delete all links" in the ISY. Factory reset is probably the better option, huh? It would just be a lot more work... Link to comment
DualBandAid Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Another question. I'm reading the link you provided Teken and came across this: Hello Mike, I believe you're in the wrong thread as this one is about the HUB II, ECHO, ISY Integration. If you're using UDI's Portal Services to connect your Amazon Echo. Wait - so do I not even need to bother with the Hub? Can I just use the ISY directly? If that's the case, why would I want to use the Hub at all? Link to comment
Teken Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Another question. I'm reading the link you provided Teken and came across this: Wait - so do I not even need to bother with the Hub? Can I just use the ISY directly? If that's the case, why would I want to use the Hub at all? That is really a question and personal choice you need to ask yourself. The reason *some* have used the HUB II is that it was first to support various 3rd party devices like the Amazon Echo, Harmony Remote, Sono's, etc. If you're capable and have time you can always follow the *Roll Your Own* approach. If your time and patience is less available than integrating the HUB II which already supports some of the above may be desirable. Link to comment
Teken Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Thank you Teken and Paulbates! I've been waiting for some time to get into this. The time has come. I'll report back. One question, I currently have all my devices connected to an Insteon Hub. Should I factory reset them? Or just do the "delete all links" in the ISY. Factory reset is probably the better option, huh? It would just be a lot more work... From personal experience it has always been best practice to hard reset all of the devices and enroll them via the ISY one at a time. Doing so will delete any half links and ghost programming and ensures the hardware is in a default OEM state. The small investment of time now will ensure a solid and reliable Insteon network. Link to comment
paulbates Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Thank you Teken and Paulbates! I've been waiting for some time to get into this. The time has come. I'll report back. One question, I currently have all my devices connected to an Insteon Hub. Should I factory reset them? Or just do the "delete all links" in the ISY. Factory reset is probably the better option, huh? It would just be a lot more work... Here's the thing... if you did not factory reset, and everything worked fine.. great. If it does not work fine, your left to wonder what is really wrong... especially device related problems. Fully agree with Teken Another question. I'm reading the link you provided Teken and came across this: Wait - so do I not even need to bother with the Hub? Can I just use the ISY directly? If that's the case, why would I want to use the Hub at all? Each approach has its advantages and limitations... it is easy to use the insteon app to remote control things through the hub. That can be done through the portal and requires apps like James Peterson's new Agave. Those things cost money, hub app and access are free If the amazon echo is something that would work for your requirements,... the echo/isy portal service/isy would probably be the best compromise Paul Link to comment
DualBandAid Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Teken, I probably should have provided more context to the quote I provided. The user Mike was referring to using the ISY and Echo together. That is my ultimate goal. I actually have another house -- well, my ex has it...but that's another story... -- where I had a full Insteon system that I was controlling with just an ISY. I then moved -- and started from scratch...but had an Echo. So I started adding Insteon devices and, in order to control it with the Echo, I had to get the Insteon Hub. There was no ISY support for the Echo at the time. Now that there is...I was under the impression that, even though there is ISY integration with the Echo, I still needed to have a Hub in the equation. Is that wrong? More precisely, if I am looking for a way to control my Insteon devices with an Echo -- and have an ISY in the loop with all the extra functionality the ISY provides...do I need to bother with the Hub? Link to comment
Teken Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 No, all you need is a subscription to the ISY Portal. It should be noted that the network module is now included with the ISY Portal Service but does go away if you ever stop using it. My humble opinion is (IF) you don't have the network module now to purchase it. As this will allow you to connect to anything with out the portal should you ever have financial reasons to do so. Having said this the portal does offer great value and see even more in the long term. Link to comment
TheFallenAngel Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Another question. I'm reading the link you provided Teken and came across this: Wait - so do I not even need to bother with the Hub? Can I just use the ISY directly? If that's the case, why would I want to use the Hub at all? Yes, if you need Alexa, IFTTT, and you have the Portal, then you don't need Hub II... Cheers, Alex Link to comment
DualBandAid Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Thanks FallenAngel and Teken. I guess I should jump in with the ISY solo first -- though... QUESTION 1: I suspect without a Hub I will need to use more words to turn on, say, a kitchen light, right? Instead of "Alexa, turn on the kitchen lights" I'm going to have to say something like "Alexa, tell Izzy to turn on the kitchen lights". Is that correct? It's not that I'm lazy but...well, aren't all of us on this journey willing to work a little harder so we can by a little lazy? QUESTION 2: ISY Portal Service...network module? I'm trying to read about them, but having a little trouble getting my brain around it. Are these both software things? Is the network module hardware? Are they subscription? QUESTION 3: The ISY Portal Service...seems to be a competitor to MobilLinc Connect (something I have used extensively in my old house). Is ISY Portal Service basically the same but different? QUESTION 4: So where does this network module fit in? Thanks for the all the help guys. And on behalf of a few friends who are following in my footsteps. We are eagerly awaiting the replies. Link to comment
DualBandAid Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I found this Teken, where you posted earlier. So that answers the hardware questions. The network module is a software add on package that is activated when you select *Purchase Modules*. Please provide a screen capture of the *About* in the help tab for your ISY. This will help UDI to determine your firmware and modules that may already be installed.Teken . . . Also, I see that the ISY portal module is $49 for two years where the network module is $49...which I presume is a one-time purchase. But the network module purchase page doesn't say anything about Echo integration... Use your ISY as a web server to serve up your own applications, pictures, and files. The module also inculdes Wake On Lan (turn your computers on using ISY progrmas) and Network Resources which enable you to call any network resource (TCP/UDP/HTTP/HTTPS). ...whereas the ISY portal purchase section is all about that... Remotely connect through ISY portal. No port forwarding necessary. This is a subscription for 2 years and includes: Amazon Echo IntegrationIFTTTNetwork ModuleThis will deactivate MobiLinc Connect Module Which also brings me to QUESTION 5: It sill deactivate MobilLinc Connect? Currently, I use that at my ex-wife's house. So if I buy this ISY portal for my new place...I won't be able to help manage from afar her house with MobiLinc Connect? I actually don't recall even purchasing a MobilLinc Connect Module via the ISY. I thought I did it totally via the MobiLinc iPhone app...and that it completely resided there. Am I mistaken in that memory? Link to comment
Teken Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Hello, There are a few specifics I will try to address so please let me know if there is anything unclear in my statement to you. 1. Network Module: In the past this module had to be purchased separately like any other module and is a one time purchase. Now UDI has bundled the network module to offer even more value to the end user. I personally don't like having to pay someone a annual fee on something I use all the time. As I indicated early on my preference and many others is to purchase the network module so you always have it. Should for what ever reason you decide the costs vs benefit of the ISY Portal is not financially possible. You will always have the native network module in the controller to do what you wish. 2. Amazon Echo: Using the portal allows a very simple and stream lined approach in integrating the two systems into one. This is essentially a plug & play approach and is fantastic for those less technically inclined or those who value their time more than money. If you have the time and knowledge you can always use the network module and follow one of several *Roll your own* middle ware (RPi) methods where it allows you to have local Amazon Echo control via the native network module. There are at least two methods in this forum which lists out the steps and procedures. The benefit of going this route would save you the two year $49.XX ISY Portal fees but all of the maintenance would fall squarely upon you. It should also be noted most recently people have indicated some changes have been made and using this method is at times spotty? Portals: You can only subscribe to one cloud based portal whether that be the UDI ISY Portal or the Mobilinc Portal. Keep in mind there are two different services for Mobilinc. One is similar to the ISY Portal where as the other was intended to allow port free connections, push notifications, etc. Link to comment
DualBandAid Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Thank you for the response! However, I still am unclear what the network module actually does in the first place. In other words, what does it do? What is it for? A roll my own version of what exactly? It sounds like it predated the echo - so what did it do before the echo was around? Link to comment
DualBandAid Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I actually took the plunge and got the ISY portal. However, there are conflicting installing instructions: This video says to enable "ISY skills": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiAaGuXaFTI But this instruction set says to enable the "ISY Optimized for Smart Home" skill http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Amazon_Echo_Integration Any thoughts? Link to comment
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