lilyoyo1 Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 49 minutes ago, arskiracer said: Also, any reprocessed medical device sold in the US still has to be approved by the FDA to be both safe and effective. I think it would be difficult to go after a hospital for using refurbished equipment when the federal government has already put their stamp of approval on it. Approval by the FDA has absolutely nothing to due with liability and lawsuits. If that was the case, most of all medical lawsuits wouldnt exist. The equipment used can and will become part of the case.
TrojanHorse Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 I love free speech. That said though it would be helpful if some ambitious person went through this thread and pulled out the relevant “instructions” on the repair and any caveats that have been mentioned throughout. Maybe that’s already been done (where?) but frankly at this point it might be more difficult to find the relevant portions of this thread than to actually do the repair? I don’t have a real opinion on this latest tangent but instead have long thought that pulling out the details here would be helpful. Could be 1 page instead of 650+ posts : - )Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 1
hart2hart Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 There are 5 capacitors that need to be replaced. Most recent list compiled by resident expert Brian H. C7 and C13. 100uF/50V or 10uF/50V. Earlier ones where 10uF. Smarthome changed to 100uF. May have to lay 100uF on it side. Most are using 100uF/50V for the 10uF/50V. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/EPCOS-TDK/B41858C6107M000?qs=ziqVJVjjmkzaaRB22pWdiA%3D%3D. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEU-FR1H100?qs=tfZGHB2PWd1NAbdNSgjToQ%3D%3D C3 10uF/400V https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/647-UPW2G100MHD1TO?r=647-UPW2G100MHD1TO C8 10uF/16V https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/USV1C100MFD?qs=6UFrbFY2dcTclg9NCH6OBw%3D%3D C11 100uF/25V https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UTT1E101MPD?qs=isV%2BNJxyrb747oJy1YayIg%3D%3D
arskiracer Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 @Brian H, how do you know what changed in different revisions of the 2413S? Is that by visual inspection of different rev boards, or do you have a series of schematic revisions you reference?
Brian H Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 I have not seen any full schematics of a 2413S PLM. There is a reverse engineered power supply part of the 2413S buried somewhere in this thread. The older 2412 PLM schematics are in the Modem Developers Guide and even the original 2414 PLC is in the real older manuals. Observation of the different versions is what information I have and the reported firmware version when connected to an ISY99i or ISY994i or using the PLM test programs through the discontinued Insteon Developers Group with the evaluation copy of Docklight Scripting. The serial port daughter board is in the 2412 PLM manuals with observations of differences. Like a different new one starting with V2.4 The basic PLM commands are in the 2412 PLM Developers Manuals that are found as they where released and not changed with the 2413 PLM.
bdyster Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) After repair do I need reset the PLM via the set button? Just reread all 28 pages for this post and didn't see anything about that and seems its more of a power up and pray after putting everything back together. Has anyone solved the problem of PLM not detected even when all else looks good? I've taken it apart and double checked everything multiple times. Just tried my first recap job on V2.0 that just failed. After recap, it will power up and get the green LED but ISY is still going into safe-mode saying that it cannot communicate with PLM. Thus is appears my first recap attempt wasn't a success. I reread all 28 pages of this thread and double checked all of the neg terminals on the cap. Also compared to my older V1.4 PLM that died but I never bother to recap as I bought the V2.0 to replace it. Unfortunately, in 2017 when my first V1.4 PLM died, I just ordered a new PLM and eventually bought only enough caps to fix the one PLM. Thus, I cannot try to fix the V1.4 now without ordering new caps. At this point would just buy a new PLM but seems like Insteon isn't what it used to be. Called SH yesterday and they said that due to supply chain problems they anticipated won't have more PLM stock till mid 2022! I have ~140 Insteon devices and switches still work but w/o controller or way to program this is really, really bad. Gonna try to order caps and rebuild my V1.4 but cannot imagine dumping my $1000s invested in Insteon just because I cannot get a PLM. Seems like ebay sellers are aware of supply-demand as used PLMs are going for $200-400! Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm getting the "I told you so" from the wife who is technology adverse now that I cannot keep my HomeAutomation system running. Edited January 18, 2022 by bdyster
arskiracer Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) I'm in a similar boat. My home automation system is down without a PLM. I'm not yet willing to pay 3X the price for an eBay PLM, so I'm just waiting until they come back in stock. The built-in insteon links at least keep my switches and lights working. I design boards at my work, and I've had similar issues there. I've been redesigning boards with parts that are available, but maybe their engineering team doesn't have that luxury. The other option is for them to buy from brokers at double or more the cost of components, but they might not have enough margin for that. Edited January 18, 2022 by arskiracer corrected PDM to PLM
bdyster Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 Tried resetting the PLM by plugging in while holding the set button. Made the long beep sound but still no connection to the ISY. Mouser is out of stock on all of these caps w/a 48-53wk lead time! It's the end of the world as we know it but I am not feeling fine. Looks like couple people on ebay have cap kits - went ahead and ordered a couple and will see if I can get the old V1.4 resurrected. Anyone out there who has any recapped PLMs stashed in a closet and willing sell to me and arskiracer for not a king's ransom?
arskiracer Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 You can also try www.octopart.com if you ever need hard to find parts. It's a search engine for electronic components and the results will include standard distributors like mouser, digikey, RS Components, Arrow. But it also includes brokers, which are more expensive and sometimes require custom quotes and minimum order quantities.
Brian H Posted January 19, 2022 Posted January 19, 2022 One thing you have to double check. Is the serial daughter board correctly connected to the 8 pin header on the main board. It is not too easy but you could bend a pin and it is not in the socket or you are one pin off. One whole row off and it is possible you got the unregulated +12 (usually around 18.5VDC) from the main board into a chip. Smarthome changed the serial chip to one with better ESD ratings at V2.3 and in V2.4 a new serial board with a protection network for the two serial signals. If the serial port chip was damaged. That could also cause a no communications message.
bdyster Posted January 19, 2022 Posted January 19, 2022 I checked the install of daughter board couple times and didn't incorrectly socket it. Also tried to verify that all the GND of the caps were well connected in case I pulled a thru-via on the board and connected neg side of appropriate caps to gnd with small wire on backside. Also tried swapping the serial daughter board from my V1.4 but no luck. Guessing it is something wrong in the main board. Other than a fluke multi-meter, I don't have more advanced measurement equipment and measured the voltage across PI regulator caps C7/C13 is 21.5V, 163V across C3, 1.3V across C11 and 4.99V across C8. Could probably borrow an o-scope if that helped but don't know what I would be probing or looking for. Looking to track down caps and try to repair my v1.4 now. PM sent to hart2hart. Just bought a used 2413U off ebay and will try to swap daughter boards as I've read on other threads that it can work as new ones are also out of stock. . (Ebay purchase is V1.B so likely will need to be recapped at some point soon too - so need to source more caps).
mmb Posted January 19, 2022 Posted January 19, 2022 36 minutes ago, xKing said: Lol, you can get Polisy + USB PLM for that Haha ya, for Canadians with exchange and shipping that's about $600. I suppose if you're desperate and money's no object...
arskiracer Posted January 19, 2022 Posted January 19, 2022 3 hours ago, bdyster said: I checked the install of daughter board couple times and didn't incorrectly socket it. Also tried to verify that all the GND of the caps were well connected in case I pulled a thru-via on the board and connected neg side of appropriate caps to gnd with small wire on backside. Also tried swapping the serial daughter board from my V1.4 but no luck. Guessing it is something wrong in the main board. Other than a fluke multi-meter, I don't have more advanced measurement equipment and measured the voltage across PI regulator caps C7/C13 is 21.5V, 163V across C3, 1.3V across C11 and 4.99V across C8. Could probably borrow an o-scope if that helped but don't know what I would be probing or looking for. Looking to track down caps and try to repair my v1.4 now. PM sent to hart2hart. Just bought a used 2413U off ebay and will try to swap daughter boards as I've read on other threads that it can work as new ones are also out of stock. . (Ebay purchase is V1.B so likely will need to be recapped at some point soon too - so need to source more caps). I tried swapping the serial board from my 2413S into a 2413U I had laying around and it didn't work. I think it was Brian who said the main boards have different SW versions between the serial and USB interfaces and they apparently aren't compatible. It's usually easier SW management in production to have the firmware recognize the hardware and automatically adapt, but often the firmware engineers are limited in code space or project schedule time to make that happen, so maybe that's why this apparently doesn't work.
Brian H Posted January 19, 2022 Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) I am not an expert on the firmware. As far as I know. Only a few bytes are different. So it reports the correct Category and Subcategory ID when interrogated and only the subcategory is different. I don't believe the ISY994i used the ID. Others here have successfully put a serial board from a 2413S into a 2413U and had it work. I did a real crude test with a 2413S serial board in a 2412U. Very basic tests with typed in commands seemed to respond correctly. Very possible some combinations where not happy. Not sure about the ones originally sold with purchased version of HouseLinc that required a PLM with a H suffix or it didn't work. On the puling out a plated through hole from the top and bottom runs. There are some on the positive leads also. I tore one out and had to trace it out and add a few wire jumpers. I did see something from Smarthome on they occasionally had the serial chip damaged by static discharge. V2.3 changed the serial interface chip with one with a better ESD rating and V2.4 a redesigned serial daughter board with a protection network on the two serial signals along with the better interface chip. Edited January 19, 2022 by Brian H Add information
bdyster Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/19/2022 at 3:26 PM, Brian H said: On the puling out a plated through hole from the top and bottom runs. There are some on the positive leads also. I tore one out and had to trace it out and add a few wire jumpers. I did pull out a lead/trace on C7 between the positive cap side to the inductor L1. However I added a jumper wire and measured the voltage across the PI regulator caps at 21.5V, so think it was a success. Is the serial chip on the mainboard or the daughter? Since I tried swapping 2 different daughters, it seems like the failure is on the mainboard. Missing my double-tap, timer and other programs so need to get controller up and running. Can't rationalize spending the $350-450 for an PLM on eBay. My HomeAuto system has mostly been just running in the background as a reliable appliance should, so I haven't kept up with Polisy or any newer controller options out there. Is ISY on Polisy mainstream yet - and do I still need some sort of PLM (2413U?) or an Insteon Hub? I have a Hub new in box that i've never even unboxed as the ISY solution seemed more powerful. Just don't know what Polisy would need to send out Insteon signals. If I'm spending that kind of money to keep HA running, I'd rather upgrade than maintain.
arskiracer Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Yeah, I have that question too. What does Polisy do exactly? I know it provides access to a bunch of new stuff I don't have, like Ring, Tesla, Rachio. Does it also offer an alternative way to connect to Insteon devices other than the 2413S? I do have an Ecobee, not sure i need to automate anything off that though. Edited January 21, 2022 by arskiracer
xKing Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, arskiracer said: Yeah, I have that question too. What does Polisy do exactly? I know it provides access to a bunch of new stuff I don't have, like Ring, Tesla, Rachio. Does it also offer an alternative way to connect to Insteon devices other than the 2413S? I do have an Ecobee, not sure i need to automate anything off that though. Polisy is just a piece of hardware that can run ISY software on it as well as Polyglot (that thing that integrates Ring, Tesla, Rachio, etc). Polisy can also use either Serial PLM (2413S) or USB PLM (2413U) which is in stock and easy to get. You no longer need old ISY994 if you have a Polisy box. P.S. Now that I said that - I can't seem to find 2413U in stock either But when my serial PLM died last November - 2413U was in stock everywhere. Edited January 21, 2022 by xKing
Michel Kohanim Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 @xKing, You can also use INSTEON portable USB dongle. With kind regards, Michel
Brian H Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 The serial interface chip is on the daughter board. Along with the link database memory chip.
icerabbit Posted February 6, 2022 Posted February 6, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 12:51 PM, Michel Kohanim said: @xKing, You can also use INSTEON portable USB dongle. With kind regards, Michel How does one transition from ISY 994 + Serial PLM to the USB Dongle?? My Serial PLM was failing, ordered a USB PLM, just did the serial card swap and restore modem .... but ISY is not happy ... ( nothing works, modem detected, table populated with 104 entries, but cannot communicate with anything, always trying to update, ... )
lilyoyo1 Posted February 6, 2022 Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, icerabbit said: How does one transition from ISY 994 + Serial PLM to the USB Dongle?? My Serial PLM was failing, ordered a USB PLM, just did the serial card swap and restore modem .... but ISY is not happy ... ( nothing works, modem detected, table populated with 104 entries, but cannot communicate with anything, always trying to update, ... ) What procedure did you use when you swapped? The Isy is not compatible with the 2447a8 USB stick if that is what you're referring to as the USB dongle. You would need polisy to use that Edited February 6, 2022 by lilyoyo1
icerabbit Posted February 6, 2022 Posted February 6, 2022 Yes, that would mean transitioning to PolyISY. I had looked at the system when the announcement went out, but it seemed overkill and had not considered that USB dongle. I ordered a USB dongle just in case - considering all issues with SmartHome hardware availability ... as I am trying to figure out a plan B or C ... should this daughter board swap from USB PLM to Serial PLM not work out. ... and, I really do understand I have to be cautious / considerate about posting about my technical issue in multiple threads.
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