Teken Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 I'm going to a site that has some older devices which span several hardware changes from what is presently being sold today from Smartlabs. Is there currently any limitations on how far back a device can be replaced by the: Replace With? I ask because there are some related threads where people have indicated replacing a exact KPL relay / dimmer did not work. When I looked deeper into why it didn't work at first blush it appeared to me that the device in (general terms) was the same product but in reality was not. ie. KPL dimmer called 24XX what ever compared to 2334-222, 2334-232 would not replace properly. Some of it I can understand like when they changed out the KPL relay from single band to dual band. I just want to avoid having to sit there for twenty hours when we should have simply added the device and associated the new device to the programs and scenes from the onset. Insight
xd40 Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 BUMP! I have similar issue: Replacing another failed 2486D with a 2334-232 (the 2486D is no longer available) 1) KNOWN problem: ISY99 is on the newest firmware which can't be updated any further and the 99 doesn't know what the "2334-232" is. Is there any plan to provide updates that at least add new devices, or is there a work around to allow me to do a replace? 2) Suspected problem: I suspect after I get past this issue I may still have problems replacing the 2486D with the 2334-232 because the ISY will think the devices are different.
Teken Posted December 11, 2014 Author Posted December 11, 2014 BUMP! I have similar issue: Replacing another failed 2486D with a 2334-232 (the 2486D is no longer available) 1) KNOWN problem: ISY99 is on the newest firmware which can't be updated any further and the 99 doesn't know what the "2334-232" is. Is there any plan to provide updates that at least add new devices, or is there a work around to allow me to do a replace? 2) Suspected problem: I suspect after I get past this issue I may still have problems replacing the 2486D with the 2334-232 because the ISY will think the devices are different. I would humbly suggest you take advantage of the low cost upgrade path from the 99 to the 994. This will address all future devices being supported and also provide you much more features and capabilities as UDI releases them in 5.XX For me we simply added the new devices and didn't bother trying to replace with. It went smoother that way and only took about three hours to get all the gear in place. Considering it was a 5500 square foot house and deploying 70 devices it was quite the feat!
LeeG Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 The 99i is both Discontinued and past End of Life. No updates for 99i. I think the KPL type change by SmartLabs was the first of many devices the 99i does not support. The 2334-232 6 button Dual Band KPL will not add to the 99i. As noted by Teken there is an upgrade option to migrate to a 994i.
xd40 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 My 994 is on the FedEx truck for delivery today--I ordered it a while back but it was on back order at smart home and it takes a long time to get stuff from the left coast. So does this "upgrade option" include a discount on the hardware? If so, can I take advantage of that even though I already bought the hardware? If not, it's not really an "upgrade path" but more of a "replacement path"... and nobody is touching question #2, are they--sounds like UD hasn't figured out they need to have a device equivalence list to allow direct replacement when the part numbers are different, but the device is functionally similar enough to be a direct replacement.
LeeG Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 UDI has the "Upgrade" offer. Having paid Smarthome already I think you will have to return the 994i to Smarthome and purchase Upgrade from UDI. Question #2 does not apply as the Dual Band KPL cannot be added to the 99i. Once on a 994i running 4.2.18 (latest Official release) it depends on the old KPL configuration. If in 6 button mode the new Dual Band 6 button should Replace the old KPL. Apply the Replace with ..... function against the old KPL. If in 8 button mode a 6 button KPL (old or new) cannot replace an 8 button KPL.
Teken Posted December 12, 2014 Author Posted December 12, 2014 My 994 is on the FedEx truck for delivery today--I ordered it a while back but it was on back order at smart home and it takes a long time to get stuff from the left coast. So does this "upgrade option" include a discount on the hardware? If so, can I take advantage of that even though I already bought the hardware? If not, it's not really an "upgrade path" but more of a "replacement path"... and nobody is touching question #2, are they--sounds like UD hasn't figured out they need to have a device equivalence list to allow direct replacement when the part numbers are different, but the device is functionally similar enough to be a direct replacement. The upgrade path would have been through UDI directly. You can see the cost and the models that are available from them and their associated cost for upgrading. Since you purchased this directly from SH you have the option of just returning the item. Then, go back to the UDI sales page and make your purchase from there. The lowest upgrade starts at $99.XX before tax's and shipping of course. I can't say what is all involved to make a *Replace With* but gather this may be a limitation based on the sub cat etc. In my opinion it should make no difference because in the big grand scheme of things the device does the same thing. ie. 6/8 KPL they both dim / relay it makes no difference if its a dual band vs single band. I haven't personally tried to replace a older style Appliance Linc with the newer On / Off Module as I don't have one. But would affirm the same it turns on / off it shouldn't matter if its a single band vs dual band etc. But, hey that is the joy of automation its always a work in progress.
xd40 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 OK--when I get the 994 later today I'll see if I can do the replace--I hope so because I sure don't want to have to reverse engineer all of the configuration for the keypad...
Teken Posted December 12, 2014 Author Posted December 12, 2014 OK--when I get the 994 later today I'll see if I can do the replace--I hope so because I sure don't want to have to reverse engineer all of the configuration for the keypad... I believe if they are the 6 button style it will replace with fine. As indicated by LeeG there appears to be an issue to doing the same with a dedicated 8 button KPL. I don't have any of those and most of mine were simply converted from 6 to 8 buttons. To this day I fail to understand why they don't have a 8 button KPL relay by default. I ask because depending upon the model year if you had to hard reset the device it would go back to 6 button mode. If the person wasn't on the ball they would notice their programs and buttons didn't operate as before.
ergodic Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I've been upgrading quite a few devices (KPLs and SLs) recently. I've not run into any big issues with replacing an older model device with the new equivalent device (in the 994ir/pro running 4.0.5) But I have found that quite frequently the ISY will report during the replace that it "lost communication" with the device or a similar error. Restarting the admin console, requerying the device's status and then doing a full restore always seems to get it working fine and I see no comm errors after that.
xd40 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 After moving over to the 994 I was able to do a replace to the new device BUT it isn't really working right anymore. The ISY shows that the buttons are controllers for the old scenes, but they don't do anything when the buttons are pressed, so I guess I'll have to sit down and figure out how they used to work and completely reprogram the keypad again So the ultimate answer is "no", the replace doesn't work correctly--at least not for this particular circumstance.
Michel Kohanim Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Hi xd40, I think you replaced the new one with the old one and not the other way around. Replace function has been there for years and it should work. With kind regards,Michel
xd40 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Hi xd40, I think you replaced the new one with the old one and not the other way around. Replace function has been there for years and it should work. With kind regards, Michel nope--I was born AT NIGHT but I wasn't born LAST NIGHT. but I did replace OLD with NEW1 and when it didn't work replaced NEW1 with NEW2 which also didn't work right until I factory reset it. I keep forgetting that you have to factory reset every insteon device right out of the box.
Teken Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 I keep forgetting that you have to factory reset every insteon device right out of the box. You don't need to but its always best practices. I have found doing this one step prior to adding in a new device ultimately saves days of frustration trying to figure out what the hell is going on.
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