jmed999 Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 The lack of a polished android app, comm issues and expensive HA devices are why I wish I would have never gotten into this Home Automation hobby. Constant babysitting of the HA system & programs, replacing failed devices (switchlincs, powerlincs, remotelincs, EZFloras, etc) and lack of reliability have me frustrated. I have spent thousands and I end up disabling programs rather than taking the time to babysit them which defeats the purpose. For me the issues with HA and cost far outweigh the benefits. I wish I would have not spent the money on any of my HA equipment. Anyone else feel the same way?
LeeG Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) I am happy with my Insteon system, about 10 years now. Found out early that analyzing and correcting problems was the only way to go. The band-aids I tried in the early years caused more issues than taking time to learn the Insteon protocol so the problem could be fixed. Insteon is DIY which does take time to learn. If not able to do that Insteon will likely be a frustration for ever. The EZFlora is likely the same issue as the PLM. The Smartenit devices are built around what would be a SmartLabs PLM with a Smartenit daughter card. Have not had to purchase any new Smartenit devices for some time. Suspect my Smartenit devices were built around a PLM that was manufactured before the cap issue surfaced. Edited May 8, 2015 by LeeG
sanders2222 Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Me too. Despite my trials... besides, I figure it keeps me off the streets at night. 1
Xathros Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Though I still have occasional frustrations, I'm happy with my system for the most part. It's still growing as I integrate more and more things. I haven't had very many failures and the few that I have had I will be repairing and re-purposing as I get the time to tinker with them. There was a time that I could have scrapped the whole thing but I stuck it out and learned why I was having problems and how to fix them. Now I can generally fix most of the issues that pop up fairly quickly. -Xathros
MikeD Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 After converting from several X-10 devices around the house back in 2012 I can honestly say I am very happy with Insteon (and Z-Wave). All the helpful information on this forum allowed me to do things I did not think was even possible. I am sure that the guidance provided on this forum also has kept me out of trouble. For instance there are a half dozen FilterLincs around my house, all put in place based on comments made here. ~Mike 1
paulbates Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Its fair to say that ROI from all HA related expenses vs hard cost savings is unlikely; if saved electricity is considered the primary cost driver. The initial cost of devices, counting all / every cost, the cost of mistakes, even the cost to run it. I've guessed that all my insteon devices, power supplies, rpis, etc, are burning more than 100 watts, 24x7. If you are losing that many devices, I would consider a whole house power conditioner, they cost around $75. Power surges can stress and damage capacitors, which are a common failure mode theme for insteon devices... and sounds in the ballpark for the ezfloras you described in another thread today. There have been some arrows for sure. And if it were possible to send messages back in time, a number of decisions I would have made differently. For me, the urge to "noodle" and problem solve is too strong, I like it. I don't actually "need" any of it, but I enjoy all of it. Probably the biggest thing I've had to learn to balance is the difference between "Can I automate it?" and "Should I automate it?" (With all deference to "If you ain't broke, Automate it! ) 1
jmed999 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Posted May 8, 2015 Well the help from this forum sure helped and I thank everyone for that. I guess I didn't realize the time it would take to keep my home automated. That's my fualt. Oh and it sure would be nice if the failures weren't as numerous and I sure wish we had a better Android app. Oh well for now it's easier to keep it up that taking it all out.
jwarner964 Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Hi I've been automating for about 1 year. I have not had anything fail and the programing has been kinda fun. The help here on the forum has been outstanding . The things I have automated work great . Jeff
smokegrub Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 I can somewhat relate to your frustration because Insteon is definitely not "set it and forget it". However, having said that, automation has allowed me to to monitor entries and the temperature at a remote location with photos and email alerts. It allows me also to control external and internal lighting leaving the appearance that the place is occupied. Finally, it even runs a "fake" tv enhancing the illusion of occupancy. At my home, it does the same things plus it controls about 20 Christmas devices, including several old x-10 modules. Where my wiring was lacking it allowed me to create wireless circuits. When I get ready for bed, I press a PLM button and it turns the light off in that room and two others on allowing me to safely navigate some stairs. In the bedroom I press a KPL button and all lights are turned off except two exterior lights which are turned off a half hour before daylight. I could go on and on. I love the system. I am 70 years old and the learning curve is steep but with the help of the wonderful experts at this site I get the help I need to make life easier and safer.
lilyoyo1 Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 I am not a big believer in using apps to control my system so lack of polish for an app is the least of my concerns. Besides that, there are customizable options out there that a person can use. I am like Lee G, by taking the time to learn the limitations ( I don't try to use my devices in ways they weren't intended or that brings out their weaknesses) I have minimized issues in regards to constant babysitting, changes and failures. I have found that when trying to minimize investment into HA (whether Insteon or Zwave), frustration levels increase as does babysitting. For me, HA is more than a hobby. It's an Investment. Just like any investment, in order to get anything out of it, you have to be willing to put into it. As your lifestyle changes so will your programming. People change so our equipment does too. Like Jwarner says...It's kinda fun. If your having multiple failures there may be something else going on.
randyth Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Definitely worth it for me, but like many here, I enjoy the time I put into it. I consider it a hobby. My wife often jokes that I'm not happy unless I have something to fix. As a result, I am frequently playing with the system to break improve things. My home theater system falls under the same category (SageTV forever!). Some "Practical" Benefits: * Automated sprinklers based on current and forecast weather * Automated whole-house ventilation system that reduces need for AC by knowing when to exchange air instead of running the AC * Monitors my sump pump to make sure it's still operating * Notifies me when I'm away from home and my smoke alarms go off (never used in real-case scenario, thank goodness) Some Fun Benefits: * Lights my way to bed when I'm done for the night * Turns on the nightly news if I'm in the room at 6pm * Provides simple timer functions for an outdoor fountain and indoor "ambient" lights * Makes things happen when I push buttons (the six-year old version of me is so very impressed) -Randy
oberkc Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 I can somewhat relate to your frustration because Insteon is definitely not "set it and forget it". Interestingly, I rarely touch my system, except when adding new devices. Mine is pretty much maintenance free. 1
smokegrub Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Interestingly, I rarely touch my system, except when adding new devices. Mine is pretty much maintenance free. Mine is getting better, but I have had a few devices fail, requiring replacement. Also, it is not uncommon to have to do a reset, either soft or hard to fix a problem. The Insteon wireless thermostat was a significant challenge until I came up with a program to address the issue. Although Insteon cameras aren't really Insteon, and I don't use them with the ISY, they have been a huge disappointment since I updated their firmware to address a security issue. They require routine rebooting. The setup/operating instructions for some devices are vague at best. Were it not for this board I would have many other challenges. That said, I have never had a single problem with the ISY and I am happy with Insteon. I have no regrets. I just would not want to mislead anyone that starting down this path is without considerable challenges.
G W Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 I've been really happy since I found the ISY. It has made control much better. My system is more for control than automation though I do several items automated. Gary
builderb Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Malfunctioning devices aside, the amount of trouble you have really depends on your desired system complexity. When I first got started, my automation system was pretty much just an expensive replacement for several existing analog timers. Those programs still run and are rock solid. It was when I started playing with sensor inputs that things got complicated. Smart homes should do smart things, and I've found that in most cases, it's pretty easy to program stuff for the 95% - 98% use case scenarios. But getting programs to also handle that last small percentage of edge cases (or at least fail gracefully) is where the work piles up. Even motion sensors can require extensive planning and programming to get right, let alone presence detection, open/close, or temperature sensing. And the more 3rd-party stuff I added, the more complex things got. Suddenly I'm learning how to work from the command line in Linux, and trying to figure out how to GET and POST things, and acquiring an SSL certificate. Way outside my normal comfort zone. But ultimately, it's a hobby I enjoy, with a definite benefit to the family that outweighs the occasional incident. My wife even tells me occasionally that she's happier with it than without, and it's such second nature to my kid that he's thrown off when you can't double tap a Decora switch and have it do something. I learn a lot doing this stuff, and it makes my life easier. No regrets. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
xKing Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 If you are losing that many devices, I would consider a whole house power conditioner, they cost around $75. Power surges can stress and damage capacitors, which are a common failure mode theme for insteon devices... and sounds in the ballpark for the ezfloras you described in another thread today. I agree, I have this guy: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-Whole-House-Surge-Protector-CHSPT2ULTRA/204761136installed it inside the main panel and it seems to do the job
G W Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 I agree, I have this guy: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-Whole-House-Surge-Protector-CHSPT2ULTRA/204761136installed it inside the main panel and it seems to do the job Great idea. Everyone should have one.
MWoods329 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 HA is the most fun I've ever had with a hobby and the only one that I can't seem to grow out of it get bored with after a while. I find that researching up front, buying components little by little as you learn, and always buying used have prevented a lot of headaches that others have and I don't! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
apostolakisl Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 My system definitely does not fall under the "babysitting" category. It is more like the "beehive" category. If I leave it alone, it doesn't cause me any trouble and we both go about our business being quite productive. I guess there was that unprovoked swarming that occurred when my plm died per the usual cap issue. At times I have an insufferable desire to poke the nest, adding stuff or just changing stuff around. But anymore, the bees are pretty docile. I have learned how to put a little of that magic smoke in the air first. For the most part, I have got my system in a good place and I don't poke it anymore. The only thing I tend to do now is add or tweak programs as my needs change. This really doesn't cause any headaches.
paulbates Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 My system definitely does not fall under the "babysitting" category. It is more like the "beehive" category. ..... For the most part, I have got my system in a good place and I don't poke it anymore. I'm always one for a good metaphor / simile, and definitely bow to this one. LOL!!!
Teken Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 For me I took a really long time sitting on the fence before jumping into the whole HA with both feet. I essentially waited four extra years before making my initial Insteon purchase due to the tac switch issue from years past. With anything I do I researched what each competing protocol offered when compared to the others. Afterwards it was a slow and methodical deployment of the Insteon devices in the home. Using the power of the Internet I read almost every forum post related to HA and Insteon. From trouble shooting, programming, and how to accomplish specific goals and tasks. I think what many of the people going into HA now has is the benefit of years of progress and evolving improvements in the hardware, software, firmware when compared to yesteryear's. The one tried and true fact was listening to those with personal experience with a controller. It came as no surprise to me the controller of choice was the ISY Series Controller. I knew from the on set this would be a long term investment in the technology and infrastructure. Because of this, it was evident investing more into the *brains* of the controller was going to be cornerstone of the HA system and critical elements that help to program, manage, and trouble shoot a large install. I am extremely happy to say during the course of six plus years I have not been disappointed in my initial investment. What I can say is some elements I wished I did still wait for the technology or areas of interest to me were more developed and proven. As my friend richaree has stated in the past and in other related threads. Sometimes there is a cost and hindrance in living on the bleeding edge of technology that has not been fully fleshed out, proven, or developed. Its safe to say the majority of the people on this forum in some fashion like to be living on the bleeding edge. When people look at HA you really have to consider how small this industry really still is. If you look outside of your window and look at the people living next to you. I am pretty certain if you counted 50 houses its safe to say out of the 50 you're the only one with HA. Consider that 49 people around you have not a single X-10, Insteon, Z-Wave, Zigbee, UPB, etc. So, if any of these 49 people decide to get into HA at this point one thing I can safely say is lots of the ground work has been laid out and many things have been improved over the years to allow them a much better experience. As another member indicated if the OP is seeing massive electronic failures outside of a manufacture defect. (Yes, we all know of a few specific units that were truly pieces of junk) This comes down to the install and the environment the hardware is being used in. I've said this many times here and in other forums. The reality is the USA depending upon where you live has some of the worst regulated power in the free world. Electrical power is the life blood of any electronic device and if that power is *dirty* don't expect to see a long service life out of those components, period. Keeping in mind a whole house surge protector is only one single element that will help offset some of the problems a person will see. A whole house surge protector does not help resolve dirty power. Meaning it will not help you against a brown out (sag) or a high voltage condition. Also note more homes are damaged incrementally over the years from internal surges and spikes. These internal surges, sags, spikes, come from HVAC, Pumps, Motors, etc. This is why having a layered electrical protection is paramount to ensure end devices are well protected and lessen the electrical effect on the hardware. In the end one key thing people should consider and apply is not to integrate too many electronics into their homes. Everyone should have a few zones, areas, floors that use basic and old school tech. Whether that be a basic toggle switch to what ever you deem is low tech and doesn't have lots of electronic gizmo's. Given where we are these days finding low tech devices with out some kind of computer is hard. But, this should really be top of mind for those are going to purchase large appliances and house gear. The appliance industry is busting at the seams on repairs because they purposely make products to a sub standard level where nothing is made to last. The level of protection and quality they place in the fridge, stove, microwave, toaster, etc. Is intended to blow up at a predetermined time along with almost no electrical surge protection. Thus, that equates to early failures do to the fact they want you to buy more cheap products.
arw01 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 I can often regret the expense of replacing some pieces, it wipes out months of electricity savings, and I messed up some wiring I did last year that wiped out a years worth of savings. But when it's 11 at night, COLD in the house and you can reach over hit a single button and turn off every light in the house reliably, that's pretty darn worth something! The wifey likes she can open the garage door from the keypad on the way out, I like that it's 'mostly" reliable to tell me it's closed for sure (no false closed, just false opens). I would like to branch in Z wave for some reliable locks (are there any yet?) and I love the idea of the multi sensors and ability to control LED light colors. I ended up using a Raspberry Pi for my one wire that one day stopped working and I have not fixed that yet as I have the pi running the household server and don't want to crash it a dozen times figuring out what happened to the one wire. Mobilinc is a constant frustation addressed in another thread. and I have a few devices to fix and get my money back someday out of them. The wifey also likes that we can turn on the lights from anyplace with phone access, and she gets a notice when someone gets home from school... Alan
xKing Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I don't even see myself without some level of home automation... You have to have the security/fire alarm system for the house, right? So that's already something. Then look at the thermostats - most of the households are moving to programable ones and there is a good chance new thermostat would have some WiFi capabilities as well. Then - tuning your outside and holiday lights on and off at the pre-determined times - you have to add some kind of automation device to do that. Sprinkler controllers - it really helps to have some kind of a smart controller that calculates evapotransportation based on weather data and would only water when needed. Can't escape HA - it will sneak into your house one way or another On power quality - I'd say it really depends on the location. I've travelled around the world (Russia, India, China, Turkey, South Africa, Europe (many countries there)) and seen different things... From datacenters and government/military facilities which would have multiple feeds, diesel generators and batteries to rural areas with no reliable power at all. US is looking pretty good. Here in Texas where I live now - it's constant 123-125V on each side and maybe 2-3 interruptions per year, nether of them lasting more than 30 minutes. I did not look at the waveform via oscilloscope for a long time - but what I've seen was looking fine. The biggest noise generators would be AC compressors cycling on/off and pool pumps (variable speed especially).
Teken Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I think the best thing about HA now is there are some really major players entering the scene. Whether that be Apple, Google, Samsung, Microsoft, etc. As much as I dislike Apple on so many fronts their Apple Home Kit will in some way help foster more growth, adoption, and common standards. Right or wrong the HA industry needed someone to unify the piss poor standards and protocols out there. I know Zigbee has a new push along with others. Insteon has now started to open their API and decided to participate with other platforms most recently announced for the HUB product line. Lots of great things will surely come out in the next five years that will open new doors for the general public. The only thing I can't stand is the endless push for this whole cloud hosted services! Companies that do this really are just being cheap in that they didn't have the mind set to create a great product that could stand on its own and operate like any self contained device does. This lazy attitude is systemic in our society of the dumb, inept, and those who don't want to think. They want everything to be spoon fed to them on every level. This is life . . . Life takes work, research, learning, and applying that knowledge each and every day so goals are met. I know Mike I at UDI listed an announcement about a few large POCO's who insisted that any energy controller had to have native support and operations with out the requirement of the cloud power. This is exactly what needs to be done on every level for the *toys* being released by so many also rans. The reality is *Cloud Power* has a place in the world but it has not been deployed effectively or in a way that allows the same control and management as a stand alone device that does not require such dependencies. These lazy companies simply want to suck out another dollar out of you or lock you into their eco system. People really need to vote with their wallet and tell them to stop and shove it! The sad part is the majority of the general populace are so lazy and dumb the growth of *Cloud Dependent* services will ultimately be the winner and device offerings. Truly sad . . . People should realize almost 20 plus million of the Pet Rock was sold around the world. What does this say about those people?? That they were too stupid to go outside and pick up a rock and apply paint to said rock! But decided to part with hard earned money and pay someone else for a piece of rock found on the side of the road! Just because millions of people do it doesn't make it right, correct, or the proper thing to do. This is exactly where we are with the cloud power and those silly devices which seem to pop up every day.
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