larryllix Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 I just looked at the cost of them. They're quite a bit more expensive than Insteon as well. At this moment I'm not in need of any new switches. But I'm gonna keep them in mind for the inevitable failure of some of my many insteon devices. mark I have found all decent Zwave devices are much more expensive than Insteon devices. People do their own bait and switch though. They look at the cheap Zwave devices that don't support status reporting or repeat etc., get enthused, and then upsell themselves the expensive ones because they are actually useful in a HA system. Next thing is a grid of repeater devices due to the RF only range. All looked good in the sales flyers when they sold off the bottom end devices.
mwester Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 I have found all decent Zwave devices are much more expensive than Insteon devices. People do their own bait and switch though. They look at the cheap Zwave devices that don't support status reporting or repeat etc., get enthused, and then upsell themselves the expensive ones because they are actually useful in a HA system. Next thing is a grid of repeater devices due to the RF only range. All looked good in the sales flyers when they sold off the bottom end devices. Potentially true; there may indeed be additional costs in a z-wave solution. Also note that the costs may involve replacement of noisy/interfering devices, such as a 900MHz baby monitor, with newer ones that might operate in a different radio spectrum. Of course, as I have well learned, there are also potential hidden costs in the Insteon solution -- I have more unplanned-for Insteon filterlincs than I have in all other plug-in Insteon modules put together. I have multiple of the very large (and very expensive) XPR filters. I have thrown out numerous fully-functional-but-noisy phone chargers (which wouldn't be so bad, except most of them had to be replaced with very expensive name-brand Samsung chargers). I've replace countless LED bulbs in a never-ending hunt to find ones that don't interfere with Insteon... In the end, one must gaze into the crystal ball, and take a guess at which technology is most likely to be cheaper in the long run. Or, in my case, I took a look at Insteon's recent technology developments to see if I could get a hint as to their future -- are they considering better RF technology, encryption, security, local management? Or are they focused on marketing glitz and centralized Smarthome-owned management? Are there others beyond just Smarthome who are bringing Insteon-compatible solutions to market? Does the technology on-the-wire or on-the-air seem to be static or is it being improved? Alas, Insteon loses on every count. And I deeply regret that I got sucked into the Insteon device hype so deeply -- for a few dollars more per device I could have devices that have a future beyond our local electronics recycling drives!
larryllix Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 Interesting. Although I have had a few Insteon comm failures, I have no repeaters, phase couplers, filters, or other devices that are not directly being used. I have two OutBack inverters running at all times with some Insteon running from their supplies, and my PLM plugged in right beside them.
MarkJames Posted April 29, 2017 Author Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) Of course, as I have well learned, there are also potential hidden costs in the Insteon solution -- I have more unplanned-for Insteon filterlincs than I have in all other plug-in Insteon modules put together. I have multiple of the very large (and very expensive) XPR filters. I have thrown out numerous fully-functional-but-noisy phone chargers (which wouldn't be so bad, except most of them had to be replaced with very expensive name-brand Samsung chargers). I've replace countless LED bulbs in a never-ending hunt to find ones that don't interfere with Insteon... That's interesting. I have what I would consider to be a reasonably large installation. 140 or so devices scattered across 5 buildings and six electrical panels. The farthest building is some 300ft from the main house. Every single electrical switch and light is insteon controlled plus some outlets plus my 12 zone irrigation system through 2 EZ-Floras. I moved my GDO functions to my Elk system when the PLM all-on problem was an issue. To compound it even more I have a complicated electrical metering system in my home. Back in the '80s the electric company offered a system where you could do something like this power line ---> main meter ----> main panel ---> subfeed (100A) ----> second meter ----> sub panel for heating ------> feed all heating/cooling equipment. For billing they took the total electrical use, subtracted off the heating use, charged the non-heating use at the regular rate and charged the heating use at 50% The deal was that they had the right to turn off your heating use if there was a power shortage so you were required to have a secondary heating source (fireplaces). In the 35 year history of the program, though, they never once exercised that right. The program is over now but it's grandfathered till I sell the house. that means I get my heating power at about 5 cents/kwh. It's a great deal! The reason I mention this is because my HA stuff is on the heating side of the meter for convenience reasons. Early insteon (and X10 - I started with that and Stargate) had a very hard time with this situation. The powerline signals were severely degraded going back through the meter to the main panel and then out to the devices they controlled. Initially Insteon was quite flaky - way better than X10 which was borderline useless for me - but I've stuck with it and in the last few years the technology has matured to where I really don't have any issues with it whatsoever (save for PLM failures which seem to (I hope) be over). While older devices have failed - that's true - the new ones that replace them seem both more robust and have more features. At this point I seem to have enough dual band devices installed that I don't have a single access point, filter, repeater, etc. Just the devices themselves and a phase coupler. I'll probably venture a bit into some z-wave to see what it's all about but tbh I don't have many complaints with Insteon anymore. Edited April 29, 2017 by MarkJames
Michel Kohanim Posted April 30, 2017 Posted April 30, 2017 MarkJames, In some cases you need to do restore devices as well. Full instructions are here: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON_Safe_Mode_Dialog With kind regards, Michel
MarkJames Posted April 30, 2017 Author Posted April 30, 2017 MarkJames, In some cases you need to do restore devices as well. Full instructions are here: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON_Safe_Mode_Dialog With kind regards, Michel Thanks Michel but no need. Moving my PLM has completely solved the problem mark 1
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