Advice on garage doors setup

[Rambutan3000]

Hi all, I'm an automation noob and recently purchased a house with 2x garage doors.  One the remote doesn't work at all and both motors appear to be ancient Sears models (what's with Americans and putting wood grain on everything ) but work fine.  I also need to add the line of sight safety sensors.

 

What's the "normal" way people hook up garage door actuation and sensing to an ISY?

 

Options I can see:

1. Use Insteon door opener + Instean remote

 

Can the ISY communicate with the Insteon remotes directly over the network or do I also need an Insteon hub?

Given I have decent WiFi setup in my garage area, anyone know the practical (site says 50ft) range of the Insteon remotes?

 

2. Use a smart garage door controller and a gateway to ISY

 

Any recommendations on controller units that can interface directly with an ISY without looping through the cloud? 

 

3. Roll my own 

 

Is there a way to directly interface something like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SkyLink-Universal-Remote-Control-Kit-GBRV/203076033?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D30-GarageDoorOpeners%7c&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvuDPBRDnARIsAGhuAmZDGiIr_eaZoWcVKekwKuHOVQnMzsspl5aQW567nLzIkK5L8V3hWj8aAn1BEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CK2B18y0mtcCFY-HfgodTLAHSw

 

Into a ISY?   

 

Does something exist that's like the module /remote linked above, but relays z wave signal when it receives input from it's remote?

 

Ideally I'd like something with the range of an normal garage remote that has multiple buttons to also turn on lights etc.  I don't want to break out an arduino but I will if I have to.

 

Thank!

[elvisimprsntr]

Rolling your own has some serious implications. What value do you place on life and property?

 

https://www.cepro.com/article/potential_legal_liabilities_for_integrating_garage_doors_with_home_automati

 

Personally, I would replace both GD motors with units from Chamberlain which are UL tested, and have all the safety and control you are looking for.

[dbuss]

Hi all, I'm an automation noob and recently purchased a house with 2x garage doors.  One the remote doesn't work at all and both motors appear to be ancient Sears models (what's with Americans and putting wood grain on everything ) but work fine.  I also need to add the line of sight safety sensors.

 

What's the "normal" way people hook up garage door actuation and sensing to an ISY?

 

Options I can see:

1. Use Insteon door opener + Instean remote

 

Can the ISY communicate with the Insteon remotes directly over the network or do I also need an Insteon hub?

Given I have decent WiFi setup in my garage area, anyone know the practical (site says 50ft) range of the Insteon remotes?

 

2. Use a smart garage door controller and a gateway to ISY

 

Any recommendations on controller units that can interface directly with an ISY without looping through the cloud? 

 

3. Roll my own 

 

Is there a way to directly interface something like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SkyLink-Universal-Remote-Control-Kit-GBRV/203076033?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D30-GarageDoorOpeners%7c&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvuDPBRDnARIsAGhuAmZDGiIr_eaZoWcVKekwKuHOVQnMzsspl5aQW567nLzIkK5L8V3hWj8aAn1BEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CK2B18y0mtcCFY-HfgodTLAHSw

 

Into a ISY?   

 

Does something exist that's like the module /remote linked above, but relays z wave signal when it receives input from it's remote?

 

Ideally I'd like something with the range of an normal garage remote that has multiple buttons to also turn on lights etc.  I don't want to break out an arduino but I will if I have to.

 

Thank!

One of the huge benefits of ISY is, it allows several options to perform the same task. You can choose which option works best for your need.

 

Many on this forum use the Insteon garage door opener and it works well for their needs.

 

I use the GoControl/Linear GD00Z-4 Z-Wave Garage Door Opener Remote Controller ( https://www.amazon.com/GoControl-Linear-GD00Z-4-Z-Wave-Controller/dp/B00M75TEIU/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509443900&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=linear+gargage+door+opener+zave ) which works very well for my needs. With either solution mentioned you don't need an Insteon Hub. Your ISY will communicate directly with both devices. You can create programs in your ISY that will turn on or off other Insteon or Z-Wave devices based on the status of the garage door.

[Bumbershoot]

One of the huge benefits of ISY is, it allows several options to perform the same task. You can choose which option works best for your need.

 

Many on this forum use the Insteon garage door opener and it works well for their needs.

 

I use the GoControl/Linear GD00Z-4 Z-Wave Garage Door Opener Remote Controller ( https://www.amazon.com/GoControl-Linear-GD00Z-4-Z-Wave-Controller/dp/B00M75TEIU/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509443900&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=linear+gargage+door+opener+zave ) which works very well for my needs. With either solution mentioned you don't need an Insteon Hub. Your ISY will communicate directly with both devices. You can create programs in your ISY that will turn on or off other Insteon or Z-Wave devices based on the status of the garage door.

 

I have two of these GoControl/Linear devices in service, and I've found no fault with them so far.  It helps my peace of mind that these are secure Z-Wave devices, and they're not subject to the Insteon "all on" events.  I second the recommendation.  I see no compelling reason for the "roll your own" solution.  My favorite benefit of having the garage doors integrated into the ISY isn't necessarily the remote control of the doors, but having the ability to check the status of the doors when away.

[Goose66]

If they are Sears Craftsman openers made after 1998, you can add the LiftMaster 888LM was controllers, which will give you compatibility with newer LiftMaster remotes with rolling codes AND the LiftMaster 828LM Internet Gateway. The Internet Gateway provides a mobile app and there is a Polyglot Node Server for interfacing to the ISY (running firmware 5.0.10+). The Internet Gateway is a cloud-based service, however.

 

Otherwise, the Insteon I/O Linc garage door opener solution works pretty well. 

[KeviNH]

If you intend to replace those ancient Sears models, I'd do the work to add on a Z-Wave controller/sensor at the same.   A newer opener would be safer, quieter and have it's own rolling code remotes.
 
Does anybody sell a GDO with built-in Z-Wave support?
 
Lacking built-in Z-wave, there are multiple options for add-on controller/sensor devices which basically push the button for you (that is, they have a low-voltage momentary relay) and have some form of open/close sensor (usually a wireless tilt sensor).  An add-on would work with pretty much any normal (that is, low-voltage momentary) switch, even ancient Sears models.
 

I have two of these GoControl/Linear devices in service, and I've found no fault with them so far. It helps my peace of mind that these are secure Z-Wave devices, and they're not subject to the Insteon "all on" events. I second the recommendation. I see no compelling reason for the "roll your own" solution. My favorite benefit of having the garage doors integrated into the ISY isn't necessarily the remote control of the doors, but having the ability to check the status of the doors when away.

I agree -- while automation control of any sort of door has risks, secure Z-Wave has fewer risks than Insteon.

 

I've had my own door status monitoring solution in place for years, I started out with just reed switches, but these tend to be overly sensitive (e.g. will show the door as "open" in the winter after enough ice builds up on the sill that it doesn't quite close -- fixed by adding extra magnets).

 

If you don't mind dealing with a separate wireless device for each door, each with their own batteries, then a "tilt" sensor solution (Insteon or Z-Wave) is the easiest approach to open/close position sensing.  A disadvantage of using a tilt sensor is that it may not detect a break-in where the thief destroys just a lower segment of the door:

(Reference image, not my garage)

[Rambutan3000]

Rolling your own has some serious implications. What value do you place on life and property?

 

https://www.cepro.com/article/potential_legal_liabilities_for_integrating_garage_doors_with_home_automati

 

Personally, I would replace both GD motors with units from Chamberlain which are UL tested, and have all the safety and control you are looking for.

 

Thanks for the link!  That's great info on compliance.

 

To be clear when I say "Roll your own" I meant take the wired output from an already secure "dumb" GDO receiver and relay input to the ISY.  But point taken and I don't think this is the right way to go either. 

 

Seems like the best way to go is to have the DGOs be their own autonomous solution that ISY is aware of rather than ISY be the controller.

[elvisimprsntr]

Thanks for the link!  That's great info on compliance.

 

To be clear when I say "Roll your own" I meant take the wired output from an already secure "dumb" GDO receiver and relay input to the ISY.  But point taken and I don't think this is the right way to go either. 

 

Seems like the best way to go is to have the DGOs be their own autonomous solution that ISY is aware of rather than ISY be the controller.

 

Chamberlain units have Google Home, IFTTT, Homekit, etc. integration.  You can easily tie in the ISY with IFTTT.  I recommend spending the extra coin on a belt drive unit with battery backup.  I'm the only one in my neighborhood who can open their GD during a power outage.  With Mobilinc and GeoFence location services, my GD opens automatically when I arrive home.   Closing the GD is ALWAYS a human initiated action.  

[G W]

I recommend the LiftMaster side mount controller. It is super quiet and has great safety features.

 

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[KeviNH]

Seems like the best way to go is to have the DGOs be their own autonomous solution that ISY is aware of rather than ISY be the controller.

 

Are there any GDO products with automation hooks yet which are not cloud-tethered?

 

I like the concept of a "smart" garage door reporting status to ISY (e.g. Nodelink) and which can be opened/closed from ISY, but it seems silly to lose this automation if my Internet is down (or when the cloud provider inevitably shuts down the service).

 

Chamberlain units have Google Home, IFTTT, Homekit, etc. integration. You can easily tie in the ISY with IFTTT.

Can you confirm that the whole Chamberlain MyQ ecosystem is proprietary, and will cease to be smart if it can't phone home to myqdevice.com?

 

I'm also not enamored of their wireless design,  MyQ  uses 900MHz for the sensors and then WiFi for the MyQ Home Bridge.   If I'm going to use wireless sensors for the door, I'd prefer to just go with something ISY can see directly, like Z-Wave.

[G W]

It's strange the Chamberlain claims high security but refused to implement OAuth2 so now all these third-party apps have the login credentials to the MyQ account.

 

Go figure.

 

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[Rambutan3000]

OK I think I figured out what's confusing me.  Most automation solutions assume you already have a working remote system that is directly integrated with the GDO.

 

For example I just watched this video on installing the Linear controller:

 

I was expecting at the end to say "now use this z wave remote to trigger the controller" or that the controller has it's own RF receiver and remote.  But they don't mention anything about remotes.

 

For example:

https://www.zwaveproducts.com/shop/controllers/z-wave-remotes

 

I guess the perfect solution for me right now would be something like a Linear controller with a built in RF receiver and comes with it's own remote with multiple buttons.  The extra buttons could just tell the base controller to relay z wave messages to the ISY.

 

I agree the best thing to do is just replace the motors (battery backup sounds awesome) but I can't justify the cost right now and I need to get a working remote solution ASAP.  I'll probably just get something cheap working for now and invest in a better system later on.

[stusviews]

First off, Insteon is not WiFi so a network connection is of no use for Insteon devices. If you want to install Insteon garage door control & status kit, then you'll need an Insteon manager such as a Hub (low cost, entry level) or an ISY (higher cost, very sophisticated). Secondly, if the GDOs function, then there's no need to replace them unless you want a GDO with more features.

 

I started with the Insteon kits and have replaced the with Z-Wave modules. No need for details now until you select how you want to control you garage doors remotely.

 

Aside: I installed two Genie GDSs 21 years ago and they're still fully functional. I see no need to replace them unless they stop working.

[lilyoyo1]

I use the Sommer direct drive motors on mine and love them. Super quiet though a little slow. I didn't want to use Chamberlain since I didn't want to use myq and it works out well for me.

 

I would recommend standard garage doors and their remotes etc. That way you can operate your system normally and then use the zwave remotes for backup should one be lost.

[G W]

I use the Sommer direct drive motors on mine and love them. Super quiet though a little slow. I didn't want to use Chamberlain since I didn't want to use myq and it works out well for me.

Chamberlain does not force you to use MyQ.

 

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[lilyoyo1]

Chamberlain does not force you to use MyQ.

 

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When I built my house, the ultra quiet ones from them all had myq. While there were work arounds for it, I knew I wanted to be able to add it to my ISY without jumping through hoops

[G W]

When I built my house, the ultra quiet ones from them all had myq. While there were work arounds for it, I knew I wanted to be able to add it to my ISY without jumping through hoops

Again, you can just ignore MyQ.

 

That's like saying, "I don't want to use Insteon so I'll not use ISY."

 

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[lilyoyo1]

Again, you can just ignore MyQ.

 

That's like saying, "I don't want to use Insteon so I'll not use ISY."

 

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Again, I said there were work arounds that I didn't want to go through. I found the motors I love and I'm happy with them. I made the right choice for me

[G W]

Again, I said there were work arounds that I didn't want to go through. I found the motors I love and I'm happy with them. I made the right choice for me

Excellent. I went side mount and quiet. Those are the two requirements for me. Nothing else mattered.

 

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[lilyoyo1]

I wanted ultra quiet. I was amazed at how quiet these are. You can stand on the other side of the door and not realize they are opening.

[MWareman]

I have a very quiet Chamberlain. It came bundled with MyQ. I ignore MyQ.

 

In my case, the GDO is wired to an Elk output relay, and two mag sensors in serial connect to an Elk zone. When the garage door opens, the entry2 entry timer is triggered (with a much longer delay). When the inner door opens the entry1 is triggered shortening the timer significantly.

 

With this arrangement, if my door gets forced while the system is in armed-instant (like I arm it overnight) it will trigger the alarm instantly.

 

No cloud involved at all...

[Rambutan3000]

First off, Insteon is not WiFi so a network connection is of no use for Insteon devices. If you want to install Insteon garage door control & status kit, then you'll need an Insteon manager such as a Hub (low cost, entry level) or an ISY (higher cost, very sophisticated). Secondly, if the GDOs function, then there's no need to replace them unless you want a GDO with more features.

 

I started with the Insteon kits and have replaced the with Z-Wave modules. No need for details now until you select how you want to control you garage doors remotely.

 

Aside: I installed two Genie GDSs 21 years ago and they're still fully functional. I see no need to replace them unless they stop working.

 

Thank you for this info!  I can get a good deal on Insteon hardware through work so I'll be using it as much as possible and also purchasing a ISY ZW. and adding Z-Wave where needed.

 

Does the ISY communicate directly with wireless Insteon devises like the remotes or open/close sensors or do I also need an Insteon hub to act as a gateway?  Either way I'm putting my modem/router and ISY under my stairs and planning on adding some insteon range extenders, zw repeaters and mesh wifi.

 

I think I'll try the Insteon door openers + remotes first and see how I go.

 

EDIT: Just found the partial answer to my question from the ISY manual:

 

RemoteLinc

RemoteLincs are RF devices, thus require the installation of an INSTEON RF receiver (such as an INSTEON AccessPoint).

 

So I would assume I don't need an Insteon hub but I'd need at least one range extender to bridge wireless insteon devices to the ISY (through the PLM).

[G W]

The ISY communication with Insteon is via serial through a PLM. The PLM sends data over the power lines to talk to non RF devices. Then also through RF to talk to RF devices. The Insteon Hub is not needed.

 

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[Rambutan3000]

The ISY communication with Insteon is via serial through a PLM. The PLM sends data over the power lines to talk to non RF devices. Then also through RF to talk to RF devices. The Insteon Hub is not needed.

 

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I get the PLM part, to be clear you still need something like an Insteon range extender to talk to RF devices from the ISY right?

[G W]

I get the PLM part, to be clear you still need something like an Insteon range extender to talk to RF devices from the ISY right?

You need dual-band devices. Ones that are power line AND RF. Most new non-battery devices are both.

 

Even the newest PLM is dual-band.

 

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