madcodger Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 I have been an ISY user since the early days of the 99, and my 994 has been essentially flawless, working with my Elk. But UDI has elected to offer nothing (that I know of) in terms of a decent user interface / GUI, especially for mobile/tablet and I have for years found that frustrating. Also, I don’t code, so writing my own is not an option. I have used Orchestrated Mobilinc for years as well, but find it clunky and lacking overall. My frustration with this situation led me to experiment with the Samsung Smartthings hub when we recently purchased a small commercial building for our business, and I love the interface. Everything is there, it’s simple, and with the Smart Rules app from a third party I can create some decent logic (programs) with no coding knowledge. So, has anybody done anything similar for the ISY? Is there something other than the Mobilinc stuff for a control interface? Has anyone had luck with using Smartthings as an ISY “front end”? I am well aware of the cloud nature/dependency of Smartthings and don’t want to get into that debate. So, does anyone know of a better way to control ISY? Also, the fact that this great little device doesn’t have support for Nest and Ecobee just boggles my mind... I really want to continue using ISY, but the lack of thermostat support and poor user interface has already cost them a sale in our recent building purchase. Can anyone point me to some ideas here, please? Thanks in advance.
oberkc Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 It may help to identify your "mobile/tablet". iOS? Android? Other? I have been happy with mobilinc (certainly don't find it "clunky or lacking overall" but I guess that is a very personal judgement) but there are other apps available. Some of those apps are unique to android or iOS. How much automation (versus remote control) do you employ? Are you satisfied using an app on a tablet (smartrules?) to handle the automation?
fahrer16 Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 I also don't care for Mobilinc. If you're willing to shell out a couple hundred bucks, Allonis makes a really good interface that can be customized quite a bit and interfaced with more than the ISY. I use it and really like it although I keep thinking about open source alternatives because Allonis can get a little pricey. I've also tried HomeAssistant and OpenHAB2. They work and they're free, just not as nice.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) As Oberkc said, it depends on your platform. While I have RTI, I don't really believe in using apps. What's the purpose of automation if I need to take out my phone! There are ways to add both the best and ecobee3 to the ISY. From my personal experience with the ecobee3, it can do all that you want with it without interference from anything else. The nest to a lesser degree but still extremely good on its own. With that said, (if at home) what little control is needed you can natively do with Alexa or Google home (if you have them). The ISY interface isn't the best. However it works the best if you invest in programming it towards your lifestyle. Taking the time and effort to dial your system in will negate the need for app control for the most part. Edited January 14, 2018 by lilyoyo1 2
asbril Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 I also don't care for Mobilinc. If you're willing to shell out a couple hundred bucks, Allonis makes a really good interface that can be customized quite a bit and interfaced with more than the ISY. I use it and really like it although I keep thinking about open source alternatives because Allonis can get a little pricey. I've also tried HomeAssistant and OpenHAB2. They work and they're free, just not as nice. fahrer16, do you use Android or IOS ? I am trying to understand what Allonis would do for me, using Windows, MAC and IOS at what is indeed pretty pricey.
fahrer16 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 fahrer16, do you use Android or IOS ? I am trying to understand what Allonis would do for me, using Windows, MAC and IOS at what is indeed pretty pricey. Allonis uses a web interface for all user interaction so it's platform-independent. I use it on Android, iOS, and Windows. The server-side of the software does have to be installed on windows though, so you need to keep a windows box running 24/7. Allonis works out of the box with very little customization but it also lets you build a customized interface, right down to moving buttons around, running custom commands, etc... I have some screenshots on another thread: https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/23165-smart-mirror/ 1
madcodger Posted January 14, 2018 Author Posted January 14, 2018 It may help to identify your "mobile/tablet". iOS? Android? Other? iOS only. How much automation (versus remote control) do you employ? Are you satisfied using an app on a tablet (smartrules?) to handle the automation? Use basic Program function within ISY to create a variety of automations. Basically find it very similar to SmartRules app that improves the SmartThings hub, excep that it is on the device and is dependent on Java. I personally find it almost obsolete compared to the SmartThings approach because of the Java dependency.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) iOS only. How much automation (versus remote control) do you employ? Are you satisfied using an app on a tablet (smartrules?) to handle the automation? Use basic Program function within ISY to create a variety of automations. Basically find it very similar to SmartRules app that improves the SmartThings hub, excep that it is on the device and is dependent on Java. I personally find it almost obsolete compared to the SmartThings approach because of the Java dependency. Obsolete because of Java yet the ISY can do much more than smartthings! It's not the language that a device uses but what a device is capable of. From my experience (I've used both systems) the ISY is capable of much more. If you're looking for control then smartthings is a great place. If your looking for automation then the ISY is where you would want to be. If you are depending on an app then you're not doing automation. What's even better, if your internet or router goes down, your system still works with the ISY Edited January 14, 2018 by lilyoyo1
madcodger Posted January 14, 2018 Author Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) As Oberkc said, it depends on your platform. While I have RTI, I don't really believe in using apps. What's the purpose of automation if I need to take out my phone! There are ways to add both the best and ecobee3 to the ISY. From my personal experience with the ecobee3, it can do all that you want with it without interference from anything else. The best to a lesser degree but still extremely good on its own. With that said, (if at home) what little control is needed you can natively do with Alexa or Google home (if you have them). The ISY interface isn't the best. However it works the best if you invest in programming it towards your lifestyle. Taking the time and effort to dial your system in will negate the need for app control for the most part. So, this sort of illustrates the two schools of thought, with you in one and me in the other (and no offense meant here - I’m just pointing this out). But after writing it all, I admit that it turns into a little bit of a rant, based on years of both cheering on UDI while all but begging them, in years past, to improve user experience. Re: the need for an app: I want app-based control because often voice-based control is not practical. I have four Echo devices at home and five in my office, all connected to the automation system and used often. But if I just want to control something without speaking, an app is the way to go. For example, as I write this it is 5:20AM and my wife is asleep beside me. Speaking to Alexa would not be welcome! And as for needing to pull out my phone instead of automating everything... If I don’t want to speak a command and just want to, say, turn on an outside light or run a particular program, an app just works.It’s what I want, and frankly what MOST people want, as experience has shown. And as for “taking the time and effort to dial in your system”... I have had an automated home for well over 10 years, including the past seven in this house. But I have also said for years that this attitude (and sorry, but that’s the only word I can think of to describe it, even though it sounds more harsh than I intend) is the reason home automation never really took off, and has until very recently been only a geek hobbyist’s area (and I include myself in that description). In recent years I have certainly not had 1/10 the time to “dial in my system” (i.e., “play around with it as a hobby”) that I wish I had, but my home automation is quite stable, I just want a better UI/GUI than Mobilinc because I find it clunky (e.g., it forces me to use landscape mode on an iPad). I use an iPad in bed, in portrait mode, almost every morning and night to read, check email, etc.. I can use it almost exclusively in portrait mode EXCEPT for Mobilinc, as their designers think they know much more than me about how I will want to use something. They think they know best, because it’s how THEY want to do it. But they’re wrong... When I purchased our small office building last year I thought about installing an ISY, but the lack of UI/GUI and dependence on Java to do things like create and edit programs PUSHED me toward other solutuons. I put in a Lutron Caseta system to interface with the many switches lacking a neutral wire, Zwave switches for those that had a neutral, and a Smartthings hub to control all of it. I put in three Ecobee 3s for HVAC control, and in contrast to you, I am not enamored with their scheduling or physical interface and wish I had gone with Nest, which we have at home. But I can live with them. I then found the Smart Rules app to add true logic to the SmartThings hub, and love it. It just works, is easy to use, and took me a TINY FRACTION of the time it took to get my ISY set up and programmed. Bottom line: I think UDI missed the boat big time in failing to develop a UI/GUI for ISY, which I all but begged Michel to do for years. And what I find almost laughable (but ironic and sad) is that for years most HA enthusiasts screamed about the horrors of “dependence on the cloud”, only to find themselves now going all out on Alexa / Assistant efforts. Had they just accepted the cloud early on and focused on good UI and user experience, they would be in a better place today. But what do we mere “casual users” know, compared to the hard core hobbyists? Oh yeah... En masse, we know where the market is going, because we ARE the market. I really appreciate the stability of my ISY. but in all honesty I would be hard pressed to recommend it to anyone who is not an IT professional, now that other hubs are available. The user experience is just that different. You talk about “true automation”,etc.,... With respect, that’s ot the issue. I want a system that is easy to use! I want a system that takes little time to learn, program (automate), and is a PLEASURE to use. And the cloud/local debate is going away in much the same way people argued against virtual machines years ago. The cloud just works, 99%+, for the vast majority of us. And when time is precious, convenience and ease rules. And finally... I used to be very active on the forum here, for years. Other duties took me away, but to be frank I have been reluctant to engage much in recent years because every time I do, I’m essentially told “You’re not doing it like us, so you’re doing it wong”. Well, maybe so. But somehow the things I’ve asked for keep showing up in products offered by others, and they seem to be doing pretty well. I keep thinking about the time a friend told me that Windows phone was going to “destroy” the other offerings, including my iPhone. OK, then... Edited January 14, 2018 by madcodger
oberkc Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 iOS only. Interesting. It seems that most of the complaints about mobilinc that I read around here are of the android version. Personally, I am happy with mobilinc, but I use android and rely more on widgets and tasker than the actual program interface. Also, I use control from phone or tables very little. When at the house, I have yet to find anything more convenient than a well-located light switch. When away from the house, I find the need to control lighting limited to a few key devices. In case you do not know, many of the apps available are here: https://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/55-third-party-products In the end, I am with lilyoyo1. ISY is for automation. If remote control from a cell phone is a top priority, you may be better served with something else.
madcodger Posted January 14, 2018 Author Posted January 14, 2018 Interesting. It seems that most of the complaints about mobilinc that I read around here are of the android version. Personally, I am happy with mobilinc, but I use android and rely more on widgets and tasker than the actual program interface. Also, I use control from phone or tables very little. When at the house, I have yet to find anything more convenient than a well-located light switch. When away from the house, I find the need to control lighting limited to a few key devices. In case you do not know, many of the apps available are here: https://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/55-third-party-products In the end, I am with lilyoyo1. ISY is for automation. If remote control from a cell phone is a top priority, you may be better served with something else. See earlier rant. I have a house full of Insteon and an ISY. I have those today, and have had them for years. Thousands invested. MANY people want control with a cell phone BECAUSE THAT’S HOW PEOPLE NOW CONTROL THINGS. Thanks, but given the original question, that’s just not at all helpful. There’s a common theme that has come to dominate this forum in recent years, sadly. “You can’t get there from here”.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Automation isn't for everyone. There are those such as yourself that has no desire to invest the time nor effort into taking their home to the next level. Michel readily admits that the ISY isn't for people such as yourself. Some people want simplicity. Me personally, I feel it's more work using those systems which takes the joy out of investing in technology. This is why smartthings (or any of those other cheap controllers) aren't for me. For me, I don't want to take the time to unlock my phone, open an app, wait for it to connect, find my device/scene, and trigger it. It's much simpler to have a remote on my night stand to reach over and hit the button for those times I want/need manual control over my system. Anything else happens automatically. You talking about not using voice control and how your app works since your wife is asleep. I like that if I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, my underbed lights automatically turns on so I can see. Once I get to the bathroom, the lights automatically turn on to 10% and all turns off once I'm done. Not once having to lift a finger or pull out a phone. Hell, if I fall asleep with stuff on, they automatically shut down. I don't have to tell a speaker or pull out my phone. The fact is, UDI made the ISY for a group of people who are willing to invest the time, money, and effort into achieving what they want. Do they miss out on more market share because of that? Of course. However the same can be said for those simple cloud based systems. We get on those who bag on them for not giving them what they want when reality is, they are giving the people they designed for what they want. Their main consumer base wants automation not a fancy remote. In the end, these topics will never be helpful because those who come here wanting simplicity are using the wrong system as a whole. That's no different than me going to smartthings and complaining that they should be more like the ISY. Edited January 14, 2018 by lilyoyo1 3
larryllix Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Automation isn't for everyone. There are those such as yourself that has no desire to invest the time nor effort into taking their home to the next level. Michel readily admits that the ISY isn't for people such as yourself. Some people want simplicity. Me personally, I feel it's more work using those systems which takes the joy out of investing in technology. This is why smartthings (or any of those other cheap controllers) aren't for me. For me, I don't want to take the time to unlock my phone, open an app, wait for it to connect, find my device/scene, and trigger it. It's much simpler to have a remote on my night stand to reach over and hit the button for those times I want/need manual control over my system. Anything else happens automatically. You talking about not using voice control and how your app works since your wife is asleep. I like that if I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, my underbed lights automatically turns on so I can see. Once I get to the bathroom, the lights automatically turn on to 10% and all turns off once I'm done. Not once having to lift a finger or pull out a phone. He'll, if I fall asleep with stuff on, they automatically shut down. I don't have to tell a speaker or pull out my phone. The fact is UDI made the ISY for a group of people who are willing to invest the time, money, and effort into achieving what they want. Do they miss out on more market share because of that? Of course. However the same can be said for those simple cloud based systems. We get on those who bag on them for not giving them what they want when reality is, they are giving the people they designed for what they want. Their main consumer base wants automation not a fancy remote. In the end, these topics will never be helpful because those who come here wanting simplicity are using the wrong system as a whole. That's no different than me going to smartthings and complaining that they should be more like the ISY. While I believe the point about the difference in systems was totally missed here, having a system that performs both well, would be nice. I have to agree about HA. To push the example to a ridiculous extreme....If we don't want home automation, why buy a thermostat? Just buy a HVAC switch and turn your HVAC on and off as needed. I've seen a lot of people that use their stats as a switch. One particular trade type comes to mind that should know better, from my experiences. BTW:With smart stats, amazon devices, and Google Home devices, I do NOT operate my stat from any of it. I don't even have the control connected. Stats are automatic and should never need manipulating manually. I am very picky about my comfort. If the temp is too high or too low by 1 degree C, I am sweatng or chilled. OTOH: Many like the HA, they just don't want the challenge of setting it up from scratch, so they substitute convenient manual control methods. Edited January 14, 2018 by larryllix
asbril Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) So, this sort of illustrates the two schools of thought, with you in one and me in the other (and no offense meant here - I’m just pointing this out). But after writing it all, I admit that it turns into a little bit of a rant, based on years of both cheering on UDI while all but begging them, in years past, to improve user experience. Re: the need for an app: I want app-based control because often voice-based control is not practical. I have four Echo devices at home and five in my office, all connected to the automation system and used often. But if I just want to control something without speaking, an app is the way to go. For example, as I write this it is 5:20AM and my wife is asleep beside me. Speaking to Alexa would not be welcome! And as for needing to pull out my phone instead of automating everything... If I don’t want to speak a command and just want to, say, turn on an outside light or run a particular program, an app just works.It’s what I want, and frankly what MOST people want, as experience has shown. And as for “taking the time and effort to dial in your system”... I have had an automated home for well over 10 years, including the past seven in this house. But I have also said for years that this attitude (and sorry, but that’s the only word I can think of to describe it, even though it sounds more harsh than I intend) is the reason home automation never really took off, and has until very recently been only a geek hobbyist’s area (and I include myself in that description). In recent years I have certainly not had 1/10 the time to “dial in my system” (i.e., “play around with it as a hobby”) that I wish I had, but my home automation is quite stable, I just want a better UI/GUI than Mobilinc because I find it clunky (e.g., it forces me to use landscape mode on an iPad). I use an iPad in bed, in portrait mode, almost every morning and night to read, check email, etc.. I can use it almost exclusively in portrait mode EXCEPT for Mobilinc, as their designers think they know much more than me about how I will want to use something. They think they know best, because it’s how THEY want to do it. But they’re wrong... When I purchased our small office building last year I thought about installing an ISY, but the lack of UI/GUI and dependence on Java to do things like create and edit programs PUSHED me toward other solutuons. I put in a Lutron Caseta system to interface with the many switches lacking a neutral wire, Zwave switches for those that had a neutral, and a Smartthings hub to control all of it. I put in three Ecobee 3s for HVAC control, and in contrast to you, I am not enamored with their scheduling or physical interface and wish I had gone with Nest, which we have at home. But I can live with them. I then found the Smart Rules app to add true logic to the SmartThings hub, and love it. It just works, is easy to use, and took me a TINY FRACTION of the time it took to get my ISY set up and programmed. Bottom line: I think UDI missed the boat big time in failing to develop a UI/GUI for ISY, which I all but begged Michel to do for years. And what I find almost laughable (but ironic and sad) is that for years most HA enthusiasts screamed about the horrors of “dependence on the cloud”, only to find themselves now going all out on Alexa / Assistant efforts. Had they just accepted the cloud early on and focused on good UI and user experience, they would be in a better place today. But what do we mere “casual users” know, compared to the hard core hobbyists? Oh yeah... En masse, we know where the market is going, because we ARE the market. I really appreciate the stability of my ISY. but in all honesty I would be hard pressed to recommend it to anyone who is not an IT professional, now that other hubs are available. The user experience is just that different. You talk about “true automation”,etc.,... With respect, that’s ot the issue. I want a system that is easy to use! I want a system that takes little time to learn, program (automate), and is a PLEASURE to use. And the cloud/local debate is going away in much the same way people argued against virtual machines years ago. The cloud just works, 99%+, for the vast majority of us. And when time is precious, convenience and ease rules. And finally... I used to be very active on the forum here, for years. Other duties took me away, but to be frank I have been reluctant to engage much in recent years because every time I do, I’m essentially told “You’re not doing it like us, so you’re doing it wong”. Well, maybe so. But somehow the things I’ve asked for keep showing up in products offered by others, and they seem to be doing pretty well. I keep thinking about the time a friend told me that Windows phone was going to “destroy” the other offerings, including my iPhone. OK, then... I am not taking sides here, but let me note the following..... I am in my mid-sixties and consider myself a low-sophisticated amateur techie. I use ISY 5.0.11B with about 60 Zwave devices, connected to Google Home with the ISY Portal. I installed about half of the switches etc myself and the others with help from a professional electrician. I understand nothing of variables, Raspberry or Polyglot. Though I added Mobilinc Pro on my wife's and son's Iphones, they do not use it. They have no access to the Administrative Console and would neither know or want to use it. The only use my wife makes of my setup is to open and close the curtains in our bedroom through Google Home. She will not even change the Nest Thermostat settings through Google Home. My big concern is that if anything happens to me, nobody in my family would know how to change my ISY programs and settings. My point is that home automation is mostly limited to techies and to those with lots of money who can afford having Control4 installed by a professional. Home automation will really take off when non-techies (my wife and sons) will be able to use it without even thinking about it. I am however optimistic that we will soon (a few years) get there, but it is the challenge for UDI, Homeseer, Smarthings etc to break out to achieve the use by more than us techies. Edited January 14, 2018 by asbril
larryllix Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 I am not taking sides here, but let me note the following..... I am in my mid-sixties and consider myself a low-sophisticated amateur techie. I use ISY 5.0.11B with about 60 Zwave devices, connected to Google Home with the ISY Portal. I installed about half of the switches etc myself and the others with help from a professional electrician. I understand nothing of variables, Raspberry or Polyglot. Though I added Mobilinc Pro on my wife's and son's Iphones, they do not use it. They have no access to the Administrative Console and would neither know or want to use it. The only use my wife makes of my setup is to open and close the curtains in our bedroom through Google Home. She will not even change the Nest Thermostat settings through Google Home. My big concern is that if anything happens to me, nobody in my family would know how to change my ISY programs and settings. My point is that home automation is mostly limited to techies and to those with lots of money who can afford having Control4 installed by a professional. Home automation will really take off when non-techies (my wife and sons) will be able to use it without even thinking about it. I am however optimistic that we will soon (a few years) get there, but it is the challenge for UDI, Homeseer, Smarthings etc to break out to achieve the use by more than us techies. Thanks you for supporting our side! :) You need a vocal input product. Once setup users get familiar with the vocal techniques and start to use them. My wife partially hates HA but she knows it is my hobby and doesn't bark too much but she has learned form my vocals to instruct Alexa to get what she wants mostly.
oberkc Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 Though I added Mobilinc Pro on my wife's and son's Iphones, they do not use it. They have no access to the Administrative Console and would neither know or want to use it. The only use my wife makes of my setup is to open and close the curtains in our bedroom through Google Home. She will not even change the Nest Thermostat settings through Google Home. My big concern is that if anything happens to me, nobody in my family would know how to change my ISY programs and settings. I think you sell yourself short. I suspect she (and your son) use your system every day: light switches (and thermostats). You have created an automated home where the automation is invisible to most people. Is that not what most of us strive for? They don't use mobilinc because there are easier ways to control your home. 1
asbril Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) I think you sell yourself short. I suspect she (and your son) use your system every day: light switches (and thermostats). You have created an automated home where the automation is invisible to most people. Is that not what most of us strive for? They don't use mobilinc because there are easier ways to control your home. Of course they use the switches and, often unknowingly, associated programs. In that sense you are right. However making changes requires the Administrative Console. As an example I have programs for certain lights to switch on and curtains to open at wake-up time. My wife and son don't work tomorrow on MLK day and therefore the wake-up program should not work. Changing that setting must be done in the AC but hopefully soon we get a (simple) user-friendly App that even my wife and son feel comfortable using. Edited January 14, 2018 by asbril
paulbates Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 Labeled keypad keys are very functional for that. I do something similar for evening time with a "Party" keypad key when we're entertaining. Evening "lights off" programs that turn lights off check to see that the keypad key is off. If the key is on, the program doesn't run and our lights stay on with no ISY intervention It doesn't require me to be there or do anything; its easy for the family to see that the "party" key on or not. If its not on, they press it themselves. Something similar could be done in the morning if the "if" part of the programIf ( sleep-in keypad key is off and time is wake up time) or ( sleep-in keypad key is on and time is sleep in time) then do light and curtain things turn keypad key off
asbril Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Labeled keypad keys are very functional for that. I do something similar for evening time with a "Party" keypad key when we're entertaining. Evening "lights off" programs that turn lights off check to see that the keypad key is off. If the key is on, the program doesn't run and our lights stay on with no ISY intervention It doesn't require me to be there or do anything; its easy for the family to see that the "party" key on or not. If its not on, they press it themselves. Something similar could be done in the morning if the "if" part of the program If ( sleep-in keypad key is off and time is wake up time) or ( sleep-in keypad key is on and time is sleep in time) then do light and curtain things turn keypad key off Interesting but I would prefer a screen-pad (Android or Ipad) on the wall. For it to be used by my anti-tech wife, the settings would need to be very simple. Edited January 14, 2018 by asbril
Michel Kohanim Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 madcodger, Thank you for your feedback. There's a dichotomy here: if you are enamored with SmarThings and their "third party" rules engine, and are using it at the office, and all the accolades that you heap upon them, then why are you looking for https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/23422-swap-out-zigbee-for-zwave-in-isy/?hl=gem? Why not just find another third party plugin for your SmartThings? And, why Z-Wave? SmartThings is a great Z-Wave device. With regards to the cloud and our embrace thereof, well, it would have been great had you at the least conceded that our cloud is OPTIONAL. It's only there to interact with OTHER clouds. If the cloud goes down, with ISY, what you lose is Alexa, Google Home, etc. and NOT your entire rules engine (as opposed to your beloved SmartThings). As lilyoyo1 correctly suggested, we do not cater to those who want simple command/control/beautiful UI. As a matter of fact, in many occasions I do tell prospective customers to use Wink/SmartThings, etc. We are here for provide autonomy and automation. At some point we might have a pretty UI but that's not a high priority for us especially given the prevalence of virtual assistants. With kind regards, Michel 1
lilyoyo1 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 madcodger, Thank you for your feedback. There's a dichotomy here: if you are enamored with SmarThings and their "third party" rules engine, and are using it at the office, and all the accolades that you heap upon them, then why are you looking for https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/23422-swap-out-zigbee-for-zwave-in-isy/?hl=gem? Why not just find another third party plugin for your SmartThings? And, why Z-Wave? SmartThings is a great Z-Wave device. With regards to the cloud and our embrace thereof, well, it would have been great had you at the least conceded that our cloud is OPTIONAL. It's only there to interact with OTHER clouds. If the cloud goes down, with ISY, what you lose is Alexa, Google Home, etc. and NOT your entire rules engine (as opposed to your beloved SmartThings). As lilyoyo1 correctly suggested, we do not cater to those who want simple command/control/beautiful UI. As a matter of fact, in many occasions I do tell prospective customers to use Wink/SmartThings, etc. We are here for provide autonomy and automation. At some point we might have a pretty UI but that's not a high priority for us especially given the prevalence of virtual assistants. With kind regards, Michel If making the UI pretty ends up costing us any capabilities, I would rather keep the existing interface.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 While I believe the point about the difference in systems was totally missed here, having a system that performs both well, would be nice. The ISY can do both. A person can make their system as complicated or as simple as they want it. There are just those who wants it simplified for their needs which would take away from it's designed purpose. UDI is between a rock and a hard place. They can fix the UI to make others happy (there's still no guarantee people would like it) and piss off their ardent supporters while doing so.
asbril Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 The ISY can do both. A person can make their system as complicated or as simple as they want it. There are just those who wants it simplified for their needs which would take away from it's designed purpose. UDI is between a rock and a hard place. They can fix the UI to make others happy (there's still no guarantee people would like it) and piss off their ardent supporters while doing so. I am personally pretty happy with my combination of ISY 5.0.11b, Mobilinc and Google Home. It all works to my satisfaction. My only point was that hopefully at some point in the future Home Automation will go beyond us techies and will be friendly enough for the 'masses'. In the meantime I am sticking with the solid ISY994, its superb customer support and with you all giving me ideas and helpful advise. 3
madcodger Posted January 15, 2018 Author Posted January 15, 2018 Michel, I was your customer way back in the days of the 99. I’ve been around longer than many current forum members, and have for years been a supporter of UDI. I am no longer active on the forum both because I’m busy and because the culture has changed dramatically over the last few years. As others advance in UI, the simple fact is that you have done little, except for voice. You talk about a “pretty” UI. That’s condescending, and the fact is, your UI looks like it came out of 1995. It’s not that it’s not “prettty”, Michel. It’s just plain bad, and growing increasingly obsolete. And it’s costing you customers - people spending significant sums who have been referred to you by existing users - including me - because it’s just not keeping up with current consumer expectations. And rather than LISTEN to customers who disagree with you, you reply with a note that tells me to essentially not let the door hit me in the rear. So while you certainly don’t care to hear it, this is what a frustrated customer - one who sang your praises for years and has referred people to you - sounds like. The fact that you don’t even care to listen speaks volumes, and that is indeed unfortunate. Enjoy your club. Sorry I no longer fit the customer uniform.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Michel, I was your customer way back in the days of the 99. I’ve been around longer than many current forum members, and have for years been a supporter of UDI. I am no longer active on the forum both because I’m busy and because the culture has changed dramatically over the last few years. As others advance in UI, the simple fact is that you have done little, except for voice. You talk about a “pretty” UI. That’s condescending, and the fact is, your UI looks like it came out of 1995. It’s not that it’s not “prettty”, Michel. It’s just plain bad, and growing increasingly obsolete. And it’s costing you customers - people spending significant sums who have been referred to you by existing users - including me - because it’s just not keeping up with current consumer expectations. And rather than LISTEN to customers who disagree with you, you reply with a note that tells me to essentially not let the door hit me in the rear. So while you certainly don’t care to hear it, this is what a frustrated customer - one who sang your praises for years and has referred people to you - sounds like. The fact that you don’t even care to listen speaks volumes, and that is indeed unfortunate. Enjoy your club. Sorry I no longer fit the customer uniform. There's a difference between obsolete and bad. Obsolete implies the ISY no longer works which is far far from the truth. In fact out of all the different DYI controllers out there, the only one more capable than the ISY (and has the pretty interface you desire) would be fibaro's home center which costs twice as much as the ISY. If you don't like the ISY then don't use it. As you've already mentioned, there are other options. The ISY is for programming and forgetting about it. If I had to control something based off it, I'd probably share your same thoughts. You're bashing something that simply no longer fits what you want. The great thing about it is that you have the freedom of choice. While you may have stopped recommending the ISY due to your complaints, many of us still recommend it to others. I have heard the same complaints from them in the beginning. However, those same people also sing the ISY praises now and recommends it themselves. I'm using my system with RTI so I still have a pretty interface on my touchscreens that I never use.
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