brucelisker Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 I mean it. Beginning to advanced and all in between. Standards, protocols, diagrams, programming examples; everything. The 'forum' format requires digging, knowing what search terms to use before I've used the forums to educate myself, drawing innumerable blanks, returning disheartened to my 'normal' life and leaving a TON of ISY business in rough and unfinished states, being therefore chewed out by my wife for hosing our entire, otherwise functional home. PLEASE someone with omnibus, wizard-level knowledge of the ISY, Insteon, and all things home automation, PLEASE dive into a book and come to my rescue! Thanks
TrojanHorse Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 LOL. You make an excellent point. 4.6 or 5.x?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
brucelisker Posted March 15, 2018 Author Posted March 15, 2018 4.6.2. Thanks. I got my programming experience in ANSI-standard mainframe COBOL back in the 1980s, and yet (or, *therefore?*) I am baffled no one has yet laid down the ISY-standard 'law' in book form so that ordinary people can read, and refer, and compare-and-contrast, and refer again to the *authoritative ISY reference tome*... I'm left feeling I've missed some huge, obvious answer. But no one slaps me in the head and says DUH!... They just say, "have you checked the wiki?..." A wiki is not a reference manual. And a fully baked programmatic solution is not an appropriate forum for a blog with 'mostly all the answers you'll probably need- I think'. Which is the discussion I've been faced with thus far. Honestly, if I knew 1/2 as much about ISY as I do about writing, I'd be nads-deep in just such a manual... and on my way to the bank! (Hearing me, ISY-wizards?...)
oberkc Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 There is also the user manual, in addition to the wiki. How many do you think would purchase such a book? More than 10?
asbril Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 40 minutes ago, oberkc said: There is also the user manual, in addition to the wiki. How many do you think would purchase such a book? More than 10? I would definitely buy the book if it would explain variables and node servers in layman's terms, with step-by-step explanations !
brucelisker Posted March 15, 2018 Author Posted March 15, 2018 Totally agreed, asbril. oberkc, "There is also the user manual..." Where please? People serious about their coding would buy a book - or a PDF of a book - if it were an authoritative source that covered everything in exacting detail. I grew up in the "RTFM" generation, and that has served me well. Wikis just aren't the same. Often you have to rely on someone previously having had the exact problem you're trying to solve, and then someone having given the right answer, and finally it being headed or worded or tagged with the same verbiage you are searching for. A solid, exhaustive book by a core ISY coder, with detailed and useful programming examples, would *absolutely* garner my twenty-five bucks, oberkc. And you know what they say about opinions... for every one person who raises their hand there are likely 10,000 more that feel the same... Not a bad year.
Michel Kohanim Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Hi brucelisker, The user manual + tutorials + videos are all in the Wiki. With kind regards, Michel
Justme Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 I would think that everybody that has purchased a isy would buy such a book ... I know I would have purchased one with my isy. Most of the simplest things are very time consuming trying to find the right search words and digging for answers that do not seem to exist. Or is the program even capable of doing what I am asking of it. I do very much appreciate those who help here ,but posting a question and waiting for an answer does not help progress when you have your mind into learning at the moment you are posting. By the way repeating over and over "look at the wiki pages does not help us diy retards. It is usually the steps after the basic set up that loses us. I think I feel better now.
asbril Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 12 hours ago, Justme said: I would think that everybody that has purchased a isy would buy such a book ... I know I would have purchased one with my isy. Most of the simplest things are very time consuming trying to find the right search words and digging for answers that do not seem to exist. Or is the program even capable of doing what I am asking of it. I do very much appreciate those who help here ,but posting a question and waiting for an answer does not help progress when you have your mind into learning at the moment you are posting. By the way repeating over and over "look at the wiki pages does not help us diy retards. It is usually the steps after the basic set up that loses us. I think I feel better now. I feel better just because of what you wrote . Several people on this forum have tried to explain variables and polyglot to me....... and I still do not get it. Knowing that I am not the only ignorant makes me feel better .
paulbates Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 Its possible that this is being looked at in an "inside out" fashion. You don't necessarily need variables or any other feature. As an example, I may have bought an SUV that came with a class 3/4 hitch receiver.... but I never tow anything. So while I have a hitch receiver, I don't need learn about stopping distance, trailer brake controls, having enough tongue weight, etc. I also don't understand the "at the moment" comment. Patience is needed to learn in a technically based hobby. I have invested a lot of time learning the ISY. If you simply ask questions about your project requirements here and give learning the time its needs, you get the understanding and the actual code/technique examples you're looking for. I know I'm not able to help someone without the patience needed to learn. I can't imagine how to write a book that is the intersection of the detailed steps of the existing manual with "how tos" that fit all of the potential application scenarios and are readily assisted by this community. Paul
Goose66 Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 48 minutes ago, paulbates said: Its possible that this is being looked at in an "inside out" fashion. You don't necessarily need variables or any other feature. As an example, I may have bought an SUV that came with a class 3/4 hitch receiver.... but I never tow anything. So while I have a hitch receiver, I don't need learn about stopping distance, trailer brake controls, having enough tongue weight, etc. I also don't understand the "at the moment" comment. Patience is needed to learn in a technically based hobby. I have invested a lot of time learning the ISY. If you simply ask questions about your project requirements here and give learning the time its needs, you get the understanding and the actual code/technique examples you're looking for. I know I'm not able to help someone without the patience needed to learn. I can't imagine how to write a book that is the intersection of the detailed steps of the existing manual with "how tos" that fit all of the potential application scenarios and are readily assisted by this community. Paul Not to mention that things change so much on the ISY and Insteon/Zwave that a book would be worthless by the time its published. The Wiki is key - but it just needs to be updated more regularly. I know Michel used to (successfully?) solicit volunteers to update the Wiki, but not having ever volunteered myself, I don't really have a plan for how the Wiki could be kept more up to date.
smokegrub Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 On 3/15/2018 at 7:38 AM, asbril said: I would definitely buy the book if it would explain variables and node servers in layman's terms, with step-by-step explanations ! Me, too!
asbril Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 38 minutes ago, Goose66 said: Not to mention that things change so much on the ISY and Insteon/Zwave that a book would be worthless by the time its published. The Wiki is key - but it just needs to be updated more regularly. I know Michel used to (successfully?) solicit volunteers to update the Wiki, but not having ever volunteered myself, I don't really have a plan for how the Wiki could be kept more up to date. That is a good point about continuous changes and wiki vs book. However the issue is not so much which medium but the need more simpler explanations with step-by-step instructions to understand more sophisticated uses of ISY and HA. Wiki is great but there is no uniform approach to explanations.
smokegrub Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 I understand the differing lines of reasoning regarding the development and utility of such a book, but I don't believe the book has to address all things ISY. However, that takes users through the basics, including networking, variables and other tools would be very helpful. The forum would best be served with help on specific projects/problems. Most things can already be found on wiki's but one must be skilled to even know how to search.
lilyoyo1 Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 As Goose66 said, a book would be obsolete by the time it was published. To put things in perspective, most companies are really just starting to come out with zwave+ and series 500 chips in their products. However, sigma has recently announced their 700 series chips. While it may take time to search forums, most people simply ask their question which means you get updated information from real life experience. The ISY changes often too. Look at each beta. While some things remain the same, their are enough changes from 3.0 to 5.0 where a book would be irrelevant. Once 5.0 hits, they'll be working towards 6.0 which can change how things work even more. As was stated earlier, their are so many use cases and variables involved, a book is probably the worse way to go. Even on here, I see people using variables for things that I use folders for. I'm sure there are cases were I'm using variables for things that others simply use basic programs for. There really is no right or wrong way to do stuff. There are most efficient for the individual user. The forums while not perfect is the perfect place for help. That and being willing to invest in the time needed to learn and the willingness to make mistakes and start over. A book can only simplify things so much. In simplifying things, a person is truly limited in how much detail they can go into which means a resource that is of limited help. After that you're back on the forums still asking questions and out of 20 bucks. Zwave is confusing only because of its open nature. MFG. Can do whatever they like for the most part. With the multitude of companies making products, covering them and their capabilities would make for an even more confused customer. For simplicity and easy understanding, the author would need to touch base on the zwave protocol only and the information provided can be found on any forum or any 5 sec. web search. From my experience (not scientific), I've found the easiest and best installs are those where the consumer invested in multiple (enough) devices to properly build a full mesh network throughout their home. Whether Insteon or zwave, those who take short cuts and try to use as little as possible, are also the same ones with the most issues and least reliable of installs. This goes for Insteon and Zwave. When it comes to zwave, it's generally the name brand (and their more expensive lines) devices that give you the most compatibility and ease of use over some no name company who leaves off important features to save money. Buy the cheapest ge/jasco plugin module. No secure beaming so forget about talking to your locks. However, spend about 20 bucks more and get an Aeotech plugin, not only is it smaller, better looking, and more feature rich, it can be used to talk to your locks. After writing all this, I've decided I just wrote the book for everyone and you get it free. Lol. In summary, properly invest in enough quality hardware to build a strong and stable mesh network. Don't be cheap and definitely don't take shortcuts. The keyword however is INVEST. Invest in your system and your system will treat you well.
Guest Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 I understand the differing lines of reasoning regarding the development and utility of such a book, but I don't believe the book has to address all things ISY. However, that takes users through the basics, including networking, variables and other tools would be very helpful. The forum would best be served with help on specific projects/problems. Most things can already be found on wiki's but one must be skilled to even know how to search. A-ha! This is the thing I struggle with as well. Perhaps a comprehensive technical guide isn’t the way to go, for the very reason that this hobby of ours is constantly changing.However... I for one ‘don’t know what I don’t know’... if there were a list or other collection of projects that can be looked at or referenced to give us IDEAS for new projects that we hadn’t thought of ourselves, with coding EXAMPLES and required/suggested hardware, that would go a long way in getting deeper into this hobby.Personally, my entire house is loaded with Insteon light switches, thermostats, etc., but I would like to do more... and need some inspiration. This is where having a collection of projects in one place that can be referenced would be helpful and appreciated.Further, these projects could be classified as basic, intermediate, and advanced, so that we can dig in only as far as we are comfortable (until we gain more experience).On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind seeing a basic guide on how Polyglot works, what does the MQTT broker do (or more importantly, how can we use it?), and other similar ideas. Sorry for the ramble, but can totally relate to the OP’s initial question!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
lilyoyo1 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Tonyhuk said: A-ha! This is the thing I struggle with as well. Perhaps a comprehensive technical guide isn’t the way to go, for the very reason that this hobby of ours is constantly changing. However... I for one ‘don’t know what I don’t know’... if there were a list or other collection of projects that can be looked at or referenced to give us IDEAS for new projects that we hadn’t thought of ourselves, with coding EXAMPLES and required/suggested hardware, that would go a long way in getting deeper into this hobby. Personally, my entire house is loaded with Insteon light switches, thermostats, etc., but I would like to do more... and need some inspiration. This is where having a collection of projects in one place that can be referenced would be helpful and appreciated. Further, these projects could be classified as basic, intermediate, and advanced, so that we can dig in only as far as we are comfortable (until we gain more experience). On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind seeing a basic guide on how Polyglot works, what does the MQTT broker do (or more importantly, how can we use it?), and other similar ideas. Sorry for the ramble, but can totally relate to the OP’s initial question! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Thats a good idea. I think a section in the forums with what people are doing would be cool. It would be cool to share ideas with others.
MrBill Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 10:07 PM, lilyoyo1 said: Thats a good idea. I think a section in the forums with what people are doing would be cool. It would be cool to share ideas with others. you mean this section?? https://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/30-how-are-you-using-isy/ I used to think there was a need for a beginners book. I realize now tho that there are too many ways to use and ISY and that people buy them to accessorize very differently. What would be cool to have tho is a better index to instructions and more tutorial format type instructions. I was also confused for a very long time that many wiki pages labeled ISY-99 just simply haven't been updated to reflect that they also apply to ISY-994, I was originally avoiding pages that didn't say it applied to ISY-994's.
Guest Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 you mean this section?? https://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/30-how-are-you-using-isy/ I used to think there was a need for a beginners book. I realize now tho that there are too many ways to use and ISY and that people buy them to accessorize very differently. What would be cool to have tho is a better index to instructions and more tutorial format type instructions. I was also confused for a very long time that many wiki pages labeled ISY-99 just simply haven't been updated to reflect that they also apply to ISY-994, I was originally avoiding pages that didn't say it applied to ISY-994's. Well played and well said! I admit to being a ‘tad bit lazy’ when it comes to exploring every facet of this forum, but I’m also usually juggling my day job, family commitments, and my desire to work on at least 4 home automation projects at once! (Yes, I’m probably ADHD). Having said that, I WILL take the time to review what’s out in the ‘How are you using ISY’ sub-forum, and revise my comments and suggestions appropriately...Thanks!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MrBill Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 5 hours ago, Tonyhuk said: I admit to being a ‘tad bit lazy’ when it comes to exploring every facet of this forum, but I’m also usually juggling my day job, family commitments, and my desire to work on at least 4 home automation projects at once! (Yes, I’m probably ADHD). Sadly and unfortunately, it's very hard to read this forum thoroughly. There is no way that I have the time. Threads go on forever and weave off topic regularly. I read slow but not that slow, and I simply can't skim I must read the whole thread if I read any of it. There's also tons of outdated information. A good example is the huge Alexa thread that starts out with instructions for a non-current version (the pinned thread was started 2 years ago)--eventually over the years that thread gets you were you need to be and into the current version--but there's 6 pages of 30 posts per page to get there--where are you supposed to start??? There's also much "noise" in the form of pinned posts that shouldn't be pinned anymore. I used to try to read and participate but it's simply impossible.
Michel Kohanim Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 MrBill, Agreed. And that's why we have support to help with question. Please don't hesitate to contact us and we can point you to the solution. With kind regards, Michel
larryllix Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 I don't hardly ever read the wiki much as I never found much detail on what I was looking for. I see Michel and a few others have improved it immensely over the years, though. Then again my style is not to dig and dig for more than a few hours on most things. The Internet is so full of "fixes" for things that are out of date or for some other distro or difficult to find, that simple "try it and see" works the best for me. People remember the best from their own mistakes anyway. ISY is one of the best sandboxes I have ever played in, but that only works after you have the basics down. I am amazed to see some very experienced users suddenly report "I didn't know that" about some of the ISY things in place since the end of WW II. Some of the simple concepts do need to be laid out in plain English and examples for many newbie/people. Simple things like the difference between Control/switched and status that get asked over and over here. This may indicate a failure of the search engine on the forum also. I have found many times I cannot even find some of my own posts and gave up. I think this has been requested many times without success. How about a permanent link to the wiki on the top of every forum page and ensure the wiki has a good table of contents?
MrBill Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, larryllix said: This may indicate a failure of the search engine on the forum also. I have found many times I cannot even find some of my own posts and gave up. Something I learned a long long time ago is not to use forum search, wiki search etc.... it’s much better to use google SITE search. Open Google and type in the search box: site:universal-devices.com regular search terms The advantages are huge. Searching the Forum, wiki, and all other UDI pages at the same time. (Don’t forget you can also use -example to exclude.) Another thing you can do that most forum search engines don’t do is allow you to search for search terms and users names at the same time. A lot of times my memory of a thread I want to find might include who was talking about it. For example the other day I wanted to find this specific post: https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/19706-boot-time-notification/?do=findComment&comment=186118 site:forum.universal-devices.com teken uptime notification note this time i added “forum.” into the site, that works too. I use google site search much more than I attempt to use a site’s own search. Google just does it much better.....
paulbates Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, MrBill said: Something I learned a long long time ago is not to use forum search, wiki search etc.... it’s much better to use google SITE search. Open Google and type in the search box: site:universal-devices.com regular search terms The advantages are huge. Searching the Forum, wiki, and all other UDI pages at the same time. (Don’t forget you can also use -example to exclude.) Another thing you can do that most forum search engines don’t do is allow you to search for search terms and users names at the same time. A lot of times my memory of a thread I want to find might include who was talking about it. For example the other day I wanted to find this specific post: https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/19706-boot-time-notification/?do=findComment&comment=186118 site:forum.universal-devices.com teken uptime notification note this time i added “forum.” into the site, that works too. I use google site search much more than I attempt to use a site’s own search. Google just does it much better..... Thanks for that. I've found that using a plain google works as well, especially for archived content. This focuses it in better Paul
deidrichfehr Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 Interesting topic! I agree with what has been said. I too have spent many hours going thru the Wiki and forum, digging for information. There is a lot of great information, but sometimes it is hard to find. I'm a computer programmer and always like to have comprehensive information on whatever I am working on. For this reason I decided to consolidate a lot of this information into a single source, specifically for my use. Currently, I have over 600 pages of organized basic and technical information. If there really is interest in a book I would love too know that. If there is enough interest than I might be interested in finishing an producing it. If this is the case, I would love to know what should be covered. I would also be interested in including articles, code, and example from others. There is a wealth of knowledge in this field found here, and a lot of great programmers. Following are some of the topics that I currently have. Please let me know your thoughts. If the desire is there, and the response justifies it, I would talk to Universal Devices and get their opinion on a project such as this, prior to moving forward. Thanks Deidrich 3 ISY Overview 2 4 Installation 5 4.1 Hardware Installation 5 4.2 Connecting to the ISY from a Local PC 5 4.3 The HTML Interface 8 4.4 Brower Based Interface (Supported on all Mobile Devices) 11 4.5 Launching the Administrative Console 16 5 The ISY Administrative Console 17 5.1 Basic Configuration 17 5.2 The Menu Structure 19 5.3 The Program Tabs Structure 49 6 ISY Optional Modules 69 6.1 ISY Portal Module 69 6.2 Portal Integration – MobiLinc Connect Module 69 6.3 Network Module 70 6.4 A10/X10 Experimental Support 71 6.5 Climate Module 72 6.6 Open Auto Demand / Response Module 75 6.7 Z-Wave Module 87 6.8 Brutech Electricity Module 88 6.9 Electricity Module 88 6.10 Irrigation/ETo Module 89 6.11 ELK Integration Module 89 7 Scenes 98 7.1 Scene Basics 98 7.2 Creating a Scene 104 7.3 Organizing INSTEON Devices and Scenes 107 7.4 Controlling INSTEON Devices and Scenes 108 7.5 Other Functions (Restore, Disable, Query, etc.) 109 7.6 Working with Scenes In-Depth Tutorial 110 7.7 Multi-Way Circuit 116 8 Variables 117 8.1 Variable Basics 117 8.2 Variable Details 118 8.3 Notifications 126 8.4 Email Substitution Variables 129 9 Programming 135 9.1 The Basics of ISY Programs 135 9.2 Program Detail Panel 136 9.3 Create a Program 151 9.4 Advanced Programming 169 9.9 Troubleshooting Programs 196 10 ISY Programming Commands Guide 196 10.1 What are ISY Commands 196 10.2 Expression Operators 197 10.3 Control vs Status 197 10.4 Device Intensity Level Arguments 198 10.5 ISY Commands 198 10.6 X-10 Commands 210 11 Example ISY Programs 211 11.1 Calendar Date Programs 211 11.2 Irrigation Timer Programs 239 11.4 Leak Sensors 264 11.5 Light Control 269 11.6 Motion Sensors 271 11.7 Thermostats 285 11.8 Utility Programs 290 12 INSTEON Notes 292 12.1 INSTEON Basics 292 12.1.1 What is a Device? 292 12.1.2 What is a Controller? 292 12.1.3 What is a Responder? 292 12.1.4 What is a Link? 293 12.1.5 What is a Scene? 293 12.1.6 Groups 294 12.2 Helpful Information on INSTEON and ISY 296 12.3 Spidering Your INSTEON Network 305 12.4 Generating a Network Topology Table 308 13 INSTEON Device Notes 317 13.1 PowerLineModem (PLM) 317 13.2 ApplianceLinc 318 13.3 ControLinc 318 13.4 EZI/O Devices (SimpleHomeNet) 318 13.5 EZFlora (EZRain) 319 13.6 Linking an EZFlora 319 13.7 EZSnSRF 320 13.8 EZX10SRF 320 13.9 FanLinc 321 13.10 FanLinc & KeypadLinc Configuration 321 13.11 I/OLinc 323 13.12 IRLinc Receiver 328 13.13 IRLinc Transmitter 329 13.14 KeypadLinc 330 13.15 Leak Sensor 334 13.16 LampLinc 335 13.17 MorningLinc 335 13.18 Motion Sensor 335 13.19 RemoteLinc 341 13.20 Thermostat & Wireless Thermostat (2441TH / 2441ZTH) 344 13.21 TriggerLinc 346 14 X-10 Device Notes 348 14.1 Tracking X-10 Device Status 348 14.2 Using X-10 Motion Sensors 353 14.3 Optional A10/X10 Firmware Module 363 15 Z-Wave Notes 365 15.1 Z-Wave Instructions 365 16 The Integrated IR Receiver Notes 378 16.1 Using the 40 Default IR Codes 379 16.2 Using the IR Learning Mode 380 16.3 Quick IR Tutorial 380 16.7 Creating an IR Program 387 17 Irrigation Notes 388 17.1 Evaporation and Irrigation 388 17.2 Using the HAM Weather Irrigation Module 391 18 ISY Portal Notes 396 18.1 Configuring ISY Portal Integration 396 18.2 ISY Portal Amazon Echo Integration (V3) 403 18.3 ISY Portal Google Home Integration 409 18.4 ISY Portal Node Server Instructions 425 18.5 ISY Portal Node Server Occupancy & Locative App Instructions 427 18.6 ISY Portal Node Server Occupancy V2 & UDI Mobile App Instructions 433 18.7 ISY Portal IFTTT Integration 441 18.8 Geo Fencing and Push Notifications using ISY Portal 447 18.9 Using Admin Console through ISY Portal 451 18.10 ISY Portal MobiLinc Configuration 452 19 Third Party Integration Notes 453 19.1 Tasker 453 20 Networking Resources 478 20.2 External Interfaces 479 20.3 Audio 480 20.4 Video 487 20.5 Energy 488 20.6 Lights 488 20.7 Shades 489 20.8 Fan 489 21 IP Network 491 21.1 Telnet to Your ISY 491 21.2 Assigning a Static IP Address to the ISY 494 21.3 Remotely Connect to Your ISY 495 21.4 Home Automation Dashboard (HAD) 501 21.5 Configure the Firewall for the ISY 512 21.6 Network Security 514 21.7 Internet Explorer SSL Certificate Install 522 21.8 Mail Server Settings 523 22 Issues & Troubleshooting 525 22.1 Front and Rear Panel LEDs 525 22.2 Troubleshooting Flowchart 526 22.3 ISY Diagnostics Menu 529 22.4 Connecting to the ISY Shell 531 22.5 Advanced Configuration Guide 535 22.6 Clearing Java Cache 539 22.7 INSTEON Communication Issues 543 22.8 Using the Event Viewer 547 22.9 Event Viewer Log Details 551 22.10 Factory Reset 566 22.11 Upgrading Your SD Card 566 22.12 Manually Upgrading Your Firmware 568 22.13 Resetting Your Userid / Password 568 22.14 Resetting Your ISY 570 22.15 Replacing/Reformatting a SD Card 571 22.16 Update the ISY Firmware 573
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