Chris Jahn Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 6:37 AM, ChadS said: I’ve found that starting with 5.12 (I think), if the ISY is added into an existing network, it will erase any existing associations in all the nodes and create new associations to just the ISY. Needless to say nobody in the house was happy when all of a sudden none of the virtual 3 way switches using the GoControl WT00Z-1 switches would control any lights anymore nor did any of the lights controlled using the double tap feature of the GE ZWave Plus switches function either. I’m not happy that I now need to rebuild all those direct associations on every switch (30+ switches total)! The ISY never touched those associations before and only removed associations that existed to nodes not on the network. Until either this “feature” can be disabled or it’s rolled back to the way it functioned before, the ISY just isn’t an option for me now for Z-Wave and I’ve had to exclude it from my Z-Wave network. Doesn’t seem like much thought was put into this change in functionality or the impact it would have. Hi ChadS, Sorry for you troubles in migrating to 5.0.12. The ISY does create associations to all association groups supported by the device, and has always done so (in 4.X, 5.X versions), so I'm not sure why it you wouldn't have run into this previously. It does this so that it is updated whenever an alarm is triggered or a button is pressed for example. You can recreate the associations using ISY scenes and selecting the "association" option for the link if its supported between the Z-Wave devices. This is very similar to how we handle links for Insteon. There is currently no option to turn this off. On 7/17/2018 at 9:13 AM, ChadS said: How are devices with multiple association groups handled? For example, with the GE Z-Wave Plus switches and dimmers, Group 1 is status, Group 2 is for directly controlling other devices (I.e. virtual 3-way, 4-way, 5-way, etc circuits), and Group 3 is for directly controlling other devices by double tapping the device. Just above every other Z-Wave controller I’ve used includes an option to turn off management of Z-Wave associations. You create an ISY scene, add the controller node as a controller to an ISY Scene, then add the target(s) as a responder(s) to the same scene. You then select "association" as the link type for each of the links. If a link supports on levels, and dimming durations it will show them as options for the link. Some devices allow you to send any command to another device, and in this case, it will give you the option to specify the command & parameters you want to send to the other device (minimote works this way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbutter Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Good grief... I'm late to the show and even though they are gracious enough to invite me paypal says things arent working at the moment so I can't even pay the invoice. Looks like I'll have plenty to catch up on once I get this sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwester Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Follow-up: I can confirm reduced range. I excluded and included a door sensor, and found I had to be in the same room with the ISY in order to do both operations. I originally included it with the old board from my workshop, across the basement. I spot-checked a few nodes that I knew previously had the ISY listed as a neighbor -- the workshop light switch no longer lists it as a direct neighbor, although the garage door unit still does. So, no big deal since I have enough z-wave devices to have a functional mesh -- but clearly the new board doesn't have the range of the original with external antenna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skunkiechris Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 hours ago, mwester said: So, no big deal since I have enough z-wave devices to have a functional mesh -- but clearly the new board doesn't have the range of the original with external antenna. Agree with the above - I had an external antenna on the old board and definitely had better range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giesen Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Am i missing a trick - this unit doesn't have a connection point for the external antenna - is that correct? I hope it has better range than the old internal which was not capable in my house... The bigger problem for me will be that my ISY sits in a metal 42” can, and am using an external antenna not for range, but to get the signal outside the can...Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 hours ago, giesen said: The bigger problem for me will be that my ISY sits in a metal 42” can, and am using an external antenna not for range, but to get the signal outside the can... Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk Channel vision used to make a line of smoked plexi-glass doors for media panels. I would check them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Hi Guys, With regards to range, we are bound by the FCC certification. We had to reduce the power to the point that we could pass (it took very many tries). There's also a signal/noise threshold in the new Z-Wave firmware which we can configure. Perhaps, it's more of a signal/noise ratio than signal strength. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: Hi Guys, With regards to range, we are bound by the FCC certification. We had to reduce the power to the point that we could pass (it took very many tries). There's also a signal/noise threshold in the new Z-Wave firmware which we can configure. Perhaps, it's more of a signal/noise ratio than signal strength. With kind regards, Michel Michel, As I recall, you'd mentioned setting the ISY in a vertical orientation may help with range with the new dongle. Was this for a situation where the ISY is in a basement and the z-wave devices are above it? Is there any specific vertical orientation? E.g. would the end of the ISY with the dongle be towards the top or would the front or back of the ISY face up? Would you be able to describe the general shape of the coverage in respect to the orientation of the dongle? One thing I'm trying to figure out is where to put the one plug-in z-wave device I have that acts as a repeater to try to cover the z-wave ceiling fan switches I'll be installing and whether I'll need more repeaters (I'm presuming I will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Hi MrTinker, This is for any situation! In FCC testing, putting ISY vertically dramatically increased the signal levels received by the test equipment at 908Mhz range. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfai Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Quick report regarding upgrading the Z-Wave dongle. There are 4 securely linked devices: 2x Zooz Smart Plug ZEN06 1x Zooz 4-in-1 sensor (ZSE40) - battery powered 1x Aeotec Multisensor 6 - USB powered First restore: only the ZSE40 of the four devices in the mesh were communicating; got many repeated Security Nonce RX events. I tried a few things based on my understanding of the log contents. Sync all didn’t help; network heal didn’t help. Eventually, I did a second Z-Wave>Tools>Restore which appears to have fixed the issues. All four devices are back to normal behavior as far as I can tell. Comm. range appears to be somewhat better - subjectively; didn’t capture any quantitative data. I'm using one of the ZEN06 plugs to check range - the ZEN06 have a feature to indicate the quality of the connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotnor Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Hello Everyone, Finally had time to finish the install. My Z-wave devices: Go Control bulbs, pe-653 pool/spa controller, kwickset locks, siren, dome mouse trap. 12->13 lost most of my zwave devices, but I added then back quickly. After Zwave board install, one of the locks disappeared, added back. The other one survived the restore. Didn't notice any reduction of z-wave reception range. Pool/spa controller still only partially works. Extended antennas and moved devices to have antennas one inch from each other to add back in. Looks like 8 endpoints added, only one works (high speed pump). Regards, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, scotnor said: Hello Everyone, Finally had time to finish the install. My Z-wave devices: Go Control bulbs, pe-653 pool/spa controller, kwickset locks, siren, dome mouse trap. 12->13 lost most of my zwave devices, but I added then back quickly. After Zwave board install, one of the locks disappeared, added back. The other one survived the restore. Didn't notice any reduction of z-wave reception range. Pool/spa controller still only partially works. Extended antennas and moved devices to have antennas one inch from each other to add back in. Looks like 8 endpoints added, only one works (high speed pump). Regards, Scott Scott, I too have the Intermatic MultiWave pool controller. But I was able to get Intermatic to install v39 firmware, which is fully compatible with z-wave. So I now have full control over all functions, including variable speeds, all relays, temperature settings, etc. Just FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott847 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Hi all, For those who haven't installed yet, please do not do a Network Heal initially. Please test everything as is and do a Network Heal if and only if necessary. We are testing a few scenarios here. Michel Is it safe to do a Heal? Or should I wait for a new release?Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainc Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 i haven't seen anything on my issue but i can't get the new dongle to find any z wave devices - i got the board yesterday and put it in and installed the module. i took a jasco 4101 z wave switch that i deleted from my adt pulse so it is no longer associated which it did. this was working on the adt pulse i even put it on an extension cord so is only 2 feet from the isy it will not add to the isy and i pushed the button so it should see it. i also tried the z wave lock and that didn't work although i didn't expect it without the initial switch. tried the factory reset and nothing. running 5.0.13A any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman2 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 @captainc, First, you have to exclude it from the ISY system. I know, that sounds stupid since you have not included it yet, but trust me. Do an exclude on the ISY, press the button on the device, and it will exclude. Then try including it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainc Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 thanks bm2 it worked. is it because it was on another z wave network or will i have to do this with all my zwave going forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwwer Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Installed the board to day and no issues with the installation. Initially, there were some issues with both my Kwikset lock and Aeotec multi-sensor. A network heal seemed to clear up the problems with the lock. I ended up removing and re-associating the multi-sensor. And while the multi-sensor did re-associate, it still seems to be having issues. I suspect it is simply that the range isn't as good as I was using an external antenna with the old board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman2 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 5 hours ago, captainc said: thanks bm2 it worked. is it because it was on another z wave network or will i have to do this with all my zwave going forward I always do this. In about half the cases, it is not needed, but does not hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWareman Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Removing a device from a system does not delete the record of the system from the device (only the record of the device from the system).Performing a remove basically tells the device ‘whatever system you are associated with - forget that’. You can do it from any system, not necessarily the ISY (but it’s pretty easy on the ISY).Until you remove the old system from the device, it will not associate with a new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gviliunas Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I upgraded to 5.0.13A several days ago and then installed the new Z-Wave board and restored settings yesterday - No problems encountered - Initially I did not heal the network - Everything works without re-heal. I did a backup of the new Z-wave board and it finished successfully within 1 minute. Backup of the original module took ~40 minutes. Added two additional Aeon Multisensor 6 and a Fibaro The Button - No problems encountered. Since I added and re-located the new modules, performed a network heal - No problems encountered. My system includes ~25 Insteon modules + (3) Stelpro Thermostats, (1) GoControl Thermostat, (7) Aeon Multisensor 6, (1) EcoLink Door/Window sensor, (2) Fibaro The Button, (1) Zooz ZEN06 The new Z-Wave module seems to be working perfectly for me. Thank You for another great product. ------------------------------------------------ Possibly unrelated cosmetic issue - I was editing some programs after the upgrade and the Admin console was very slow and sluggish. Click to save a program and wait several seconds for response. Click on another program and wait sever seconds for the focus to change to that program. etc. No errors and the action I was requesting eventually completed successfully. I had been using the ISY Launcher through the 5.12-5.13A period. Tried restarting ISY from the Admin Console - No change, still slow Cleared Java cache and reinstalled the ISY launcher and everything seems normal. I'll do further digging if this problem returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broyd Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Event Viewer: Device Communication Events: ISY-Events-Log.v5.0.13A__Sun 2018.07.22 09.47.35 AM.txt This is the output for a change in temperature from a Multisensor 6. Are all of these groups of messages normal and/or expected? [ZWAVE-TX ] ... [ZWAVE-RD ] [010A001318038003642500C9] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA [ZWAVE-RX ZW024_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x18 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:18 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW024_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x18 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:18 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:19 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010D001318063105012A02E22500D7] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:19 AM : [ZWAVE ZW024_1] Process value Sensor type=1 scale=1 prec=1 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:19 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [ZW024_1] [CLITEMP] [738] uom=17 prec=1 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:19 AM : [ ZW024_1] CLITEMP 738 (uom=17 prec=1) Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:19 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW024_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x18 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:19 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:20 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010C00131805310505011F250003] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:20 AM : [ZWAVE ZW024_1] Process value Sensor type=5 scale=0 prec=0 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:21 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW024_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x18 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:21 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:21 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010A001318038003642500C9] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:21 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW024_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x18 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:21 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:22 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010D001318063105030A003D250022] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:22 AM : [ZWAVE ZW024_1] Process value Sensor type=3 scale=1 prec=0 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:22 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW024_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x18 Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:22 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:22 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010C0013180531051B010025000C] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:47:22 AM : [ZWAVE ZW024_1] Process value Sensor type=27 scale=0 prec=0 I am also getting a lot of these groups of messages which appear to come from some sensor in the Multisensor 6 but these groups are not qualified, that is they don't seem to have any sensor value associated with them. I see sensor types 1, 5, 3, 27. Does anyone know what these are? Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:51 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW023_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x17 Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:51 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:52 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010D001317063105012A02DF2500E5] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:52 AM : [ZWAVE ZW023_1] Process value Sensor type=1 scale=1 prec=1 Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:52 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW023_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x17 Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:52 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:52 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010C00131705310505011C25000F] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:52 AM : [ZWAVE ZW023_1] Process value Sensor type=5 scale=0 prec=0 Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW023_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x17 Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010A001317038003642500C6] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW023_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x17 Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010D001317063105030A002A25003A] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE ZW023_1] Process value Sensor type=3 scale=1 prec=0 Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW023_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x17 Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ] ... Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE-RD ] [010C0013170531051B0100250003] REQ ZW_SEND_DATA Sun 07/22/2018 09:36:53 AM : [ZWAVE ZW023_1] Process value Sensor type=27 scale=0 prec=0 In the context of these message, what the 'H' does 'Nonce" mean? Thanks for looking :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman2 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Broyd, nonce is security related term for one time use of a cryptographic value. I do not see anything amiss in your event log, but others may correct me. @gviliunas, do you have any door locks in your setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPG Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I upgraded from 4.6.2 to 5.0.13A. I currently have about 40 Insteon devices (Wall Switches, Plug-ins, Motion Sensors, Tstats and KPL’s). All came over without a problem. The Z-Wave dongle also installed without a problem. So far I have installed the following Z-Wave Plus units: Aerotec Smart Switch 6, Aerotec MultiSensor 6, GE Plug-In Dimmer and a HomeSeer WD-200 Wall Dimmer. I am entirely new to Z-Wave so I am going through a bit of a learning curve. For example, I finally figured out I had to add both the dimmer switch and the dimming control to the scenes in order to get different dimming levels on the WD-200 switch. The results thus far are very positive. Reception is better than I expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gviliunas Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 @blueman2 No, no Door Locks. Only the items that I listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyth Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just got around to installing the new Z-Wave board. It didn't go flawlessly, but everything appears back to normal now. For reference, I have nine Z-Wave devices: three switched outlets, a multilevel sensor, a thermostat, a repeater, and three Schlage Connect locks. This is in addition to a bunch of Insteon devices. The first attempt at Z-Wave | Tools | Restore resulted in an "Ignored unsupported unsolicited Z-Wave message" dialog box followed immediately by a "The Z-Wave dongle has not been restored. The data could not be written to the Z-Wave dongle" dialog box. Next, I simply tried Z-Wave | Tools | Restore again, this time with apparent success. However, the ISY was not able to access most (all?) of my Z-Wave devices. So, I tried a Z-Wave | Tools | Heal Z-Wave Network, but that did not help. Finally, I simply closed and re-opened the Admin Console, did another Z-Wave | Tools | Restore, and then did a Z-Wave | Tools | Synchronize | All. That did the trick! All my Z-Wave devices appear to be responding normally. Because everything seems to be working, I have not tried the Z-Wave | Tools | Heal Z-Wave Network option because, well, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I was a bit paranoid about my having to exclude/include my locks after all this since I've had trouble with them in the past, but they appear to have survived the ordeal unscathed so an exclude/include was not necessary. I was a bit sad to see the board did not accept my handy old antenna, but I'll get over it. -Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.