Suddenly can't communicate with any device

[dwbourn]

Hi,

 I have a 2413s PLM v2.4 with my ISY 994i. Suddenly tonight I noticed my outside lights and a few inside lights didn't come on as they usually do (they are programmed to come on at sunset).  I couldn't see or update the status on moblinc so I opened my admin console and can log in just fine. However the ISY can't communicate with any device on my network (I have a small network so far of only 5 devices.

 

Things I have tried:

1) Reset the plm via unplugging, holding the button and plugging back in.

2) The restore PLM from the admin console

3) unplugging everything and then plugging in the PLM wait 30 seconds and then plug in the ISY.

 

No luck so far. Any hints on how to get test this further and confirm that it is the PLM? I just got the PLM in December.

 

Thanks!

--David

[Michel Kohanim]

David,

What do you get when you click on Tools / Diagnostics / PLM Status Info?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Techman]

10 hours ago, dwbourn said:

Hi,

 I have a 2413s PLM v2.4 with my ISY 994i. Suddenly tonight I noticed my outside lights and a few inside lights didn't come on as they usually do (they are programmed to come on at sunset).  I couldn't see or update the status on moblinc so I opened my admin console and can log in just fine. However the ISY can't communicate with any device on my network (I have a small network so far of only 5 devices.

 

Things I have tried:

1) Reset the plm via unplugging, holding the button and plugging back in.

2) The restore PLM from the admin console

3) unplugging everything and then plugging in the PLM wait 30 seconds and then plug in the ISY.

 

No luck so far. Any hints on how to get test this further and confirm that it is the PLM? I just got the PLM in December.

 

Thanks!

--David

What are the 5 devices on your network?

You may have either interference on the power line or your power line legs are not properly coupled.

[dwbourn]

For some reason they all work now. @Michel Kohanim, I checked the PLM status as you suggested and it said everything was ok. They have worked reliably for the past 6 months so I am not sure why they would suddenly stop and then restart working.

 

Any, thoughts on what could cause this? Would there be anything captured in the logs?

 

Regards,

--David

[Techman]

34 minutes ago, dwbourn said:

For some reason they all work now. @Michel Kohanim, I checked the PLM status as you suggested and it said everything was ok. They have worked reliably for the past 6 months so I am not sure why they would suddenly stop and then restart working.

 

Any, thoughts on what could cause this? Would there be anything captured in the logs?

 

Regards,

--David

Did you recently add any new electrical devices such at TV's, power supplies, etc?.  Are you using any CFL or Fluorescent bulbs?

[ElectricCPR]

@Michel Kohanim my PLM is giving me "not connected" ...all of the sudden! Are there any quick fixes? I need it to work over the weekend!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

Have you tried powering down the PLM and ISY994i. Then powering up the PLM allowing it to boot. Then powering up the ISY994i?

You may want to verify the cable between the PLM and ISY994i is connected firmly or try a different one.

How old is the PLM. Date Code on the back label should give the Date Code and Hardware Revision.

The 2413S has a reputation of failing after two years and a few months. If it does connect after a power cycle and only works for a short time.  The Link Database empty or close to empty? The LED on the side of the PLM dim or out? All could indicate the PLM is failing.

[dwbourn]

So it is happening again. I tried everything listed above. Any other trouble shooting tips?

 

Thanks!

--David

[paulbates]

If the problem temporarily goes away, but then comes back, unfortunately its a dead PLM.

Paul

[Techman]

37 minutes ago, dwbourn said:

So it is happening again. I tried everything listed above. Any other trouble shooting tips?

 

Thanks!

--David

 

Your problem is most likely poor communication between the PLM and your devices.

I noticed that the majority of your devices are single band.  You need to bridge both sides of your powerline using dual band plug in modules such as a lamplinc, on/off module, or range extenders.

Take a look at this article:  https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors

 

 

[dwbourn]

I do have an Insteon Hardwired Powerline Phase Coupler installed at the electrical panel so that should take care of that, correct? Also , everything worked perfectly and then the ISY couldn't communicate with any device and then  it came back and now isn't able to communicate again. The PLM  LED is on and the ISY PLM status says it is connected. How can I definitely conclude it is the PLM. It is still under warranty so I hope that is it.

 

Regards,

--David

 

[lilyoyo1]

Unplug the ISY and plm. Factory reset the plm by holding the set button in while plugging the plm into power. When the buzzing stops release the set button. Plug in the ISY. Once it reboots, log in, choose file>restore plm and then restore devices. Once those run, if you're still having issues then I'd say something is wrong with the plm.

[Brian H]

It maybe possible the PLM is not 100%. The ISY994i tests for a PLM when powered up. I unplugged my PLM and the PLM Info/Status was still connected with the six digit ID. I then did a query on a module and it changed to can't communicate with the device. Did a show PLM Link Database  and nothing showed but the PLM tests still showed connected.  Looks like if the PLM fails at a later time. After the ISY994i is booted. It can show connected but not responding. Maybe if you do a reboot in the configuration tab but not power cycle  either units and see if the connected message then shows it is not there.

I can't think of an easy way to test the PLM unless you happened to have a power line meter that can show noise or signal strength. X10 ones like my XTBM can give you some help. If it is power line noise. It can show the Insteon power line signals but it is not to accurate and the Insteon mesh causes more than one command to be seen.

If you have an intermittent power line noise or signal sucker issue.  It can effect the power line signals when it is happening. If the power line signal from the PLM is not reaching all the way back to the breakers. There would be no signal for the coupler to send on the other phase of the home. If the noise is on the 131.65KHz Insteon frequency. It would also be sent back on the other phase. So it maybe a intermittent noise maker.

[oberkc]

I will mention a cople o things I ont se addressed.  One, make sure there are no other unfiltered electronics pluged into the same circuit as the PLM.  (Unfortunately, your PLM “not connected” message suggests other problems.). Second, try a different cable between PLM and ISY.

Hopefully the new cable will solve your problem.  If not, it sure sounds like a PLM problem.

[Techman]

16 hours ago, dwbourn said:

I do have an Insteon Hardwired Powerline Phase Coupler installed at the electrical panel so that should take care of that, correct? Also , everything worked perfectly and then the ISY couldn't communicate with any device and then  it came back and now isn't able to communicate again. The PLM  LED is on and the ISY PLM status says it is connected. How can I definitely conclude it is the PLM. It is still under warranty so I hope that is it.

 

Regards,

--David

 

The red exclamation points next to your devices on your admin console indicate that the PLM is not communicating with your devices. I doubt that the problem is with the PLM itself.

If you have a long extension cord then plug the PLM into a different outlet. If you're then able to communicate with your devices you have interference on the powerline or your powerline legs are not coupled.

It's also possible that your phase coupler failed.  Smarthome is having a labor day sale right now. You may want to pick up a couple of dual band plug in modules. They will improve your Insteon mesh network and also allow you to verify that the two sides of your powerline are in fact coupled using the 4 tap test.

Have you recently added any new electrical devices to your home? Are you using any CFL or Fluorescent bulbs in your home?

 

 

[dwbourn]

Techman,

   Thanks for the suggestion, I will plug the PLM into a different circuit to see if it is due to the phase coupler. Good point on the sale, I just ordered a few dual band devices that I will install as well.

--David

[Brian H]

You can use the four tap test sometimes called the beacon test. To test the communications between Dual Band devices.

Tapping the set button four times starts the tests. Then you can observe the LED on other dual band modules. To see if they are flashing and if red or green. Some modules you  have to follow the flow chart in the full users manual to start it.

[jblackst5000]

I had the same issue you are having about 3 years ago and it was due to my PLM failing. I ordered a new PLM, restored it and everything worked great again. I also found that keeping my PLM plugged into a battery backup really extends the life of the PLM.

[Techman]

37 minutes ago, jblackst5000 said:

I had the same issue you are having about 3 years ago and it was due to my PLM failing. I ordered a new PLM, restored it and everything worked great again. I also found that keeping my PLM plugged into a battery backup really extends the life of the PLM.

By plugging the PLM into a UPS you're filtering out the powerline signal and only using the RF signal from the PLM thus not taking full advantage of the Insteon dual band technology.

It's OK to plug the ISY into a UPS, but not recommended for the PLM

[ElectricCPR]

By plugging the PLM into a UPS you're filtering out the powerline signal and only using the RF signal from the PLM thus not taking full advantage of the Insteon dual band technology.
It's OK to plug the ISY into a UPS, but not recommended for the PLM

But if there is a surge (e.g. a lightning strike) it can fry the PLM, travel through the cat6, and fry the ISY (yes, I've seen it happen)!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[dwbourn]

Ok, wanted to update. The problem is intermittent. Not sure if it is my phase coupler or the PLM. I bought some dual band devices that I will put in this weekend and see how that works. It is all or none meaning either I can communicate with all devices or none of them so not sure if they are all on one phase or not. If anyone has some troubleshooting tips please let me know, the would be appreciated!

 

Regards,

--dwb 

[paulbates]

The phase coupler is not a smart device. Nothing should knock it out, and it won't have intermittent behavior.

It sounds like:

1. there is a significant, intermittent noise problem that comes and goes.. A fan, compressor etc
2. the PLM is dying.

I'd check more on the PLM beyond the PLM status info:

• In the admin console: Tools/Diagnostics/PLM Links table - press start  - how many links show up?
•  If its a single digit number or 0, its likely the PLM is having problems
• If its a higher number, wait for the problem to appear and run PLM links again to see how many links

Paul

[Techman]

In addition to what paulbates suggested take a look at these trouble shooting tips

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors

 

 

[smokegrub]

I have two locations with ISYs. I have had to replace the PLM at one twice and the other once over the past few years. My advice, order and have a spare on hand!