Help me understand 3 or 4 way switches

[watson524]

Hi all,

Last of the newbie questions I think. God love him, Stu tried to explain this to me a bunch of times but each time I had to draw it all out for him to tell me what each wire was doing. We had a case where I had 2 switches on either side of a garage controlling a set of spot lights. It was a wiring nitemare but we finally got it resolved.

What I'm wondering tho is, let's say I have a room that has 2 or 3 switches that can control the same single fixture (so in a kitchen, there may be a light switch by the laundry room, one by the front hall and one going out towards a sunroom all controlling the same lights). Do you HAVE to have smart switches for every switch that the lights are controlled by? Why couldn't you just swap one of the switches. That's enough to control the circuit isn't it just like if you were flipping the switch manually? 

I ask because we have a lot of these multi switch setups in the 2 houses I'm dealing with and I don't know that I want to buy a ton of switches if they aren't really needed.

thanks!

[giesen]

Short answer, yes they have to be all smart switches. Insteon especially, there doesn't exist a 3-way switch. They work by only having one switch connected to the load, and all the switches are joined to a scene and signal the load switch when they want to turn the light on.

Some other technologies (UPB, I believe, and maybe some Z-Wave switches) do have models that are used in a more traditional 3-way configuration. I believe however they also require that all switches be smart switches.

Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk

[watson524]

Shoot! Ok I think that explains why I had to make each switch in a multi switch setup a responder to the other and also a controller for the other - if that makes sense. 

I think trying to do 2 was about my limit. I don't know if I can handle doing more than that without some serious diagramming and hand holding LOL!

[asbril]

10 hours ago, giesen said:

short answer, yes they have to be all smart switches

There is an exception to this. With the Inoveli ON/OFF switch as main switch, you can use the existing Non-Zwave  switch as the secondary. Pls check the Inoveli website for wiring scheme.

This was very practical for me as in one situation, the wall box is in a concrete wall with no space for the larger Zwave switches. It works perfectly as 3-way with Zwave control. 

[watson524]

59 minutes ago, asbril said:

There is an exception to this. With the Inoveli ON/OFF switch as main switch, you can use the existing Non-Zwave  switch as the secondary. Pls check the Inoveli website for wiring scheme.

This was very practical for me as in one situation, the wall box is in a concrete wall with no space for the larger Zwave switches. It works perfectly as 3-way with Zwave control. 

Thanks for that tip. I don't have any z wave at house 1 to help with the signal repeating but we do have a lock at house 2 and 2 plug in units on the way given what everyone taught me about this yesterday so this may be something to look into up there since the one specific area I'd like to control has 4 switches to it so I'd like to convert one and leave the rest as is.

[lilyoyo1]

I actually prefer the method of having all locations be smart switches as it allows for much greater customizing. For example my dining room has 3 entrances. The main batch of switches is in the from of the room and then there is another to the back on the kitchen side and 1 on the family room side. All of the switches in the front controls the lights for that room while the 2 back uses keypads. I have the room functions on both keypads as well as extras that pertain to the individual locations for the entrance that I am at. 

The same applies to my upstairs and downstairs switches. Single tap from either one simply turns on the stairs lights. A double tap allows for additional functions based on that particular location.

The expense adds up but the experience is unbeatable

[carealtor]

Just throwing this out there...  One COULD eliminate some switch locations.  Say, for instance, you only need one switch.  Or the circuit will only be controlled by ISY and rarely manually controlled.  A little dexterity with the wiring would allow you to eliminate some switches and install a blank cover.  But, as others have already pointed out, you cannot have mix of  Insteon  and "regular" switches in a circuit.