How do I create a 3 way switch?

[smarthome_newbie]

I did "replace" one device with another.  Now when I select "beep" in admin console, the device that was replaced doesn't beep.  How do I get this device back on?  And can you please tell me how I'm supposed to program these two switches to control the same device.  Only one is connected to the load.  Thanks!

Edit:  I tried to link the switch by holding the linking button.  After trying, the switch is flashed red and then went back to solid white.

[larryllix]

You should factory reset these switches and start over not using the linking buttons. ISY needs to handle this for you.

There are multiple ways to do this but first. There is no three way system in Insteon. It is accomplished by logic ORing the two light switch functions.

If either are switched ON then turn on the light. If either are switched Of turn off the light.

The usual method with a scene
Create a scene in ISY and drop both switches into the scene with the connected load one as a both controller and responder.
Drop the non-load switchlinc into the scene as a controller only.
Done

For a program
If
    switch1 is switched ON
   OR
    switch2 is switched ON
Then
    set light ON
Else
   -----

 

If
    switch1 is switched OFF
   OR
    switch2 is switched OFF
Then
    set light OFF
Else
   -----

 

These two programs can be combined into one but more complex to understand
If
    (
    switch1 is switched ON
   OR
    switch2 is switched ON
   ) AND (
    switch1 is NOT switched OFF
   OR
    switch2 is NOT switched OFF
    )

Then
    set light ON
Else
   set light OFF

[smarthome_newbie]

Got it.  This helps a lot.  Thanks!

[Ross]

May I add a wrinkle to this?

I have 2 keypads that I'd like to make a 3 way switch to cycle the light between Dim (33%) - On (100%) - Off.  Call it a 3-way switch emulating a 3-way lamp!

Say KPL-1 (Button A) has the load and KPL-2 (Button C) is the slave.

I would like both buttons' LEDs to light up when the light is on (Dim and On).  I figure KPL-1A will do that automatically, but I need KPL-2C to stay in sync.

FYI - This same light will also be used in a sunset program where I want it to turn on Dim-33% (never 100%) and in a bedtime program to turn Off.  I have that now, I just don't want that messed up when solving the 3-way, 3-way - or, if it does get messed up, then I might need help to modify those programs...

Thank you,

Ross

 

 

 

[PurdueGuy]

7 hours ago, Ross said:

May I add a wrinkle to this?

I have 2 keypads that I'd like to make a 3 way switch to cycle the light between Dim (33%) - On (100%) - Off.  Call it a 3-way switch emulating a 3-way lamp!

Say KPL-1 (Button A) has the load and KPL-2 (Button C) is the slave.

I would like both buttons' LEDs to light up when the light is on (Dim and On).  I figure KPL-1A will do that automatically, but I need KPL-2C to stay in sync.

FYI - This same light will also be used in a sunset program where I want it to turn on Dim-33% (never 100%) and in a bedtime program to turn Off.  I have that now, I just don't want that messed up when solving the 3-way, 3-way - or, if it does get messed up, then I might need help to modify those programs...

Thank you,

Ross

With only 1 button at each location, you are probably going to have trouble, unless you utilize FastOn.

If you are ok with FastOn:

Create 1 scene with the 2 KPLs as controllers, and the light as a responder, with the light at 33%

• Then tap once (On) to go to 33%.
• Double-tap (Fast On) to go to 100%

If you do NOT want to rely on FastOn:

What order do you want things to go in? 

• Off -> 33% -> 100% -> Off?
• Off -> 100% -> 33% -> Off?

With only 1 button at each location, you would have to do this with ISY programs, so it won't be instant.

Thinking quickly, you could make 2 scenes, with buttons and lamp as responders only.

• Scene33
• Scene100

Then some programs (you could combine these and cascade them, but I didn't).  You also might need waits to allow all the messages to be heard by all devices.

From Off:

If (

    Control -> KPL1-A is switched On

   OR Control -> KPL2-C is switched On

)

AND Light == 0%

Then

    Set Scene33 On

 

From 33%:

If (

    Control -> KPL1-A is switched On

   OR Control -> KPL2-C is switched On

)

AND Light == 33%

Then

    Set Scene100 On

 

From On:

If (

    Control -> KPL1-A is switched On

   OR Control -> KPL2-C is switched On

)

AND Light == 100%

Then

    Set Scene100 Off

[oberkc]

Also thinking quickly, the "wrinkle" I see in this approach is dealing with the contingency when someone toggles dims or brightens the lamp to some number other than 33% or 100%.  I like the programs above, but would probably use a condition in program "from 33" something like:

AND LIGHT is greater than zero and less than 100.

I also wonder if making the buttons creates problems with buttons getting out of sync.  What happens when you want to dim or brighten the scene using a KPL button?

I may have missed it, but you will also need to configure the buttons to be non-toggle (on only) mode.

[Ross]

I tried the Scene33 and Scene100.  I was close, but had some issues - surely on my end with my lack of experience.

I ended up just doing 6 programs - one for each button and each 0-33-100 setting.

So far, it's working.  I don't mind the short delay.

I'll revisit the scenes when I get more experience under my belt.

Thanks for your assistance - I can apply what I learned here to a couple of other things I"m doing.

Ross

 

[asbril]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:17 PM, larryllix said:

You should factory reset these switches and start over not using the linking buttons. ISY needs to handle this for you.

There are multiple ways to do this but first. There is no three way system in Insteon. It is accomplished by logic ORing the two light switch functions.

If either are switched ON then turn on the light. If either are switched Of turn off the light.

The usual method with a scene
Create a scene in ISY and drop both switches into the scene with the connected load one as a both controller and responder.
Drop the non-load switchlinc into the scene as a controller only.
Done

For a program
If
    switch1 is switched ON
   OR
    switch2 is switched ON
Then
    set light ON
Else
   -----

 

If
    switch1 is switched OFF
   OR
    switch2 is switched OFF
Then
    set light OFF
Else
   -----

 

These two programs can be combined into one but more complex to understand
If
    (
    switch1 is switched ON
   OR
    switch2 is switched ON
   ) AND (
    switch1 is NOT switched OFF
   OR
    switch2 is NOT switched OFF
    )

Then
    set light ON
Else
   set light OFF

This got me confused as it did not work for me.

If not mistaken "Control" means manual action on switch, while "Status"  means ON status whether manually from switch or from within ISY.

I have programs that,  like your example above,  have "Status" in IF. I just changed  it to "Control" but that did not work. 

Is your example Insteon specific or should it also work with Zwave switches ?

[larryllix]

5 hours ago, asbril said:

This got me confused as it did not work for me.

If not mistaken "Control" means manual action on switch, while "Status"  means ON status whether manually from switch or from within ISY.

I have programs that,  like your example above,  have "Status" in IF. I just changed  it to "Control" but that did not work. 

Is your example Insteon specific or should it also work with Zwave switches ?

I don't know how Zwave works, as I have none. I assume most styles end up about the same and I also assume UDI attempts to make the MMI (man-machine interface) as similar as possible.

[oberkc]

15 hours ago, asbril said:

Is your example Insteon specific or should it also work with Zwave switches

I have several z-wave switches.  I have not tried on all, but with one particular z-wave switch, I found that the "control" option for this particular switch does not work in programs.  I don't know whether other z-wave switches are any different.

[PurdueGuy]

5 hours ago, oberkc said:

I have several z-wave switches.  I have not tried on all, but with one particular z-wave switch, I found that the "control" option for this particular switch does not work in programs.  I don't know whether other z-wave switches are any different.

What kind of switch?  Quite possible it doesn't support "instant status" so therefore it doesn't notify ISY that it was physically pressed.

[asbril]

39 minutes ago, PurdueGuy said:

What kind of switch?  Quite possible it doesn't support "instant status" so therefore it doesn't notify ISY that it was physically pressed.

In my case, one of the switches in question is Zwave Plus (with instant status).  I am working with UDI to find out if I am doing anything wrong, if it is a bug, or if it what I want is not possible.

[oberkc]

3 hours ago, PurdueGuy said:

What kind of switch?  Quite possible it doesn't support "instant status" so therefore it doesn't notify ISY that it was physically pressed.

It is one of the GE/Jasco (?) switches from Lowes.  Interestingly, ISY is aware of the change in status...I can use "status" conditions and they trigger just fine when I press the switch. 

 

[larryllix]

4 minutes ago, oberkc said:

It is one of the GE/Jasco (?) switches from Lowes.  Interestingly, ISY is aware of the change in status...I can use "status" conditions and they trigger just fine when I press the switch. 

 

Perhaps some manufacturers could see the difference between a button press and the resultant status.

[asbril]

42 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Perhaps some manufacturers could see the difference between a button press and the resultant status.

I start to believe that this comment is right on.

In one of our rooms, I want the entrance light and the fan light to works as a 3-way, but still being able to set them individually from the administrative console.

I am pretty sure that I was able to do so by using CONTROL in the program instead of STATUS :

(Old Program)

IF

CONTROL Entrance Light is switched ON

THEN

SET Fan Light ON

ELSE

SET Fan Light OFF

(and the same the other way around with CONTROL Fan Light ON, etc)

That no longer works, so I tried the following :

(New Program)

IF

STATUS Custom Press Button Entrance Light is ON

THEN

Set Fan Light ON

ELSE

Set Fan Light ON

That works, but the reverse does not work.

The (new) reverse program not working is :

IF

Status Custom Press Button Fan Light is ON

THEN

Set entrance Light ON

ELSE

Set entrance Light OFF

The only way that can make sense (to me) is different manufacturer. The Fan Light switch is Homeseer and the Entrance Light switch is GE/Jasco, but I would have thought that Zwave standards would have been the same.

 

 

P.S. I just noted that the entrance switch has option for  1.  Add/refresh Basic Node 2. Add/Refresh Custom Press Button,  while the fan light switch (really a dimmer switch) only has  Add/refresh Button Press Node. So there are differences between the two switches. I just don't understand what this all means.

[lilyoyo1]

6 minutes ago, asbril said:

The only way that can make sense (to me) is different manufacturer. The Fan Light switch is Homeseer and the Entrance Light switch is GE/Jasco, but I would have thought that Zwave standards would have been the same.

Since when has zwave made it that easy? When it comes to zwave, keep in mind that they have switches that are "scene" capable....those should work with control. Switches that are not scene capable would need to use status.

It seems weird since the ISY see's the status change but the proper information for it to know the button was pressed is not sent when it comes to non scene capable devices. The isy updates because it "knows" the device is on, just doesn't know HOW it was turned on.

[asbril]

2 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Since when has zwave made it that easy?

?

[asbril]

35 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Since when has zwave made it that easy? When it comes to zwave, keep in mind that they have switches that are "scene" capable....those should work with control. Switches that are not scene capable would need to use status.

It seems weird since the ISY see's the status change but the proper information for it to know the button was pressed is not sent when it comes to non scene capable devices. The isy updates because it "knows" the device is on, just doesn't know HOW it was turned on.

Let me add to (my) confusion.

Both switches are Zwave Plus

The entrance light switch is not scene capable (or at least there are no scene nodes in my ISY)

The fan light is scene capable and I tried the (reverse) program with Scene node 1, but also no impact on entrance Light in THEN

If the scene capability were important to do what I want to achieve, I'd thought that the Entrance Light (No scene nodes) would not trigger Fan Light, but it is the other way around.

Let me be clear,  I get this all to work when I select  :  IF Status Fan Light is ON, so the only consequence of that is not being able to set Fan Light ON, in Administrative Console, without also turning ON the Entrance Light. That would be something I probably almost never will need, but the point here is to understand why "Switch On" (Control), or the Custom Button Node work with the one switch but not with the other. Homeseer switches are usually very good, but I may try to change it with either a GE/Jasco or Inovelli Dimmer. 

[lilyoyo1]

16 minutes ago, asbril said:

Let me add to (my) confusion.

Both switches are Zwave Plus

The entrance light switch is not scene capable (or at least there are no scene nodes in my ISY)

The fan light is scene capable and I tried the (reverse) program with Scene node 1, but also no impact on entrance Light in THEN

If the scene capability were important to do what I want to achieve, I'd thought that the Entrance Light (No scene nodes) would not trigger Fan Light, but it is the other way around.

Let me be clear,  I get this all to work when I select  :  IF Status Fan Light is ON, so the only consequence of that is not being able to set Fan Light ON, in Administrative Console, without also turning ON the Entrance Light. That would be something I probably almost never will need, but the point here is to understand why "Switch On" (Control), or the Custom Button Node work with the one switch but not with the other. Homeseer switches are usually very good, but I may try to change it with either a GE/Jasco or Inovelli Dimmer. 

Let me make sure I understand correctly what's happening. 

When you manually turn on the entry light, it will turn on the fan light but when you manually turn on the fan light it won't turn on the entry light (when using control)? 

[asbril]

1 minute ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Let me make sure I understand correctly what's happening. 

When you manually turn on the entry light, it will turn on the fan light but when you manually turn on the fan light it won't turn on the entry light (when using control)? 

exactly

[lilyoyo1]

Just now, asbril said:

exactly

What if you make a scene with the fan as a controller

[asbril]

Just now, lilyoyo1 said:

What if you make a scene with the fan as a controller

let me try......

[asbril]

Just now, asbril said:

let me try......

but would that not be the same as using Status in IF ?

[lilyoyo1]

Just now, asbril said:

but would that not be the same as using Status in IF ?

It would. Just want to see if it processes it when done that way

[asbril]

3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It would. Just want to see if it processes it when done that way

Just tried and same result..... not working. Tomorrow I will try with a spare Inovelli Dimmer  switch