Lights on dim after hours. Program question

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, bretta said:

This won't work.  It turns on the light as soon as you enter the time period specified, instead of adjusting the settings when the ligtht is turned on..  Plus, with V5, they eliminated the ability to adjust ramp rate.   The only place I can find ramp rate is under "adjust scene" and there is no combination of settings within that, that I can get to work.

I'd include @Michel KohanimKohanim on this as the adjust scene should work. It may be dependant on the firmware of your devices

[bretta]

16 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'd include @Michel KohanimKohanim on this as the adjust scene should work. It may be dependant on the firmware of your devices

I'm willing to bet that it does work.  I just can't make it work.  Big difference......       It's confusing to me as to why there are three different device/scene settings that have to be made inside the adjust scene configuration.   Not understanding the thought process behind it might be part of my issue, however I have tried every possible combination of those settings without luck.   I am obviously missing something, probably simple.

 

[apostolakisl]

3 hours ago, bretta said:

This won't work.  It turns on the light as soon as you enter the time period specified, instead of adjusting the settings when the ligtht is turned on..  Plus, with V5, they eliminated the ability to adjust ramp rate.   The only place I can find ramp rate is under "adjust scene" and there is no combination of settings within that, that I can get to work.

I think you are doing something wrong, or perhaps the firmware version you are on or maybe the type or age of the switch?  I just tested this and it successfully changes the "on level" but does not change the state.  If the light was off, it stayed off, if it was at some random brightness, it stayed at that brightness.  

My testing switch is a dual band switchlinc v45 and ISY is 5.0.16

Below is the program.  I ran the "then" clause at a variety of On Level's while the switch was already at various levels.  Every time, the on level changed without changing the current status of the switch.

New Program - [ID 017E][Parent 0093]

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        Set 'Foyer / Foyer-Niche L' On Level 45%
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, bretta said:

I'm willing to bet that it does work.  I just can't make it work.  Big difference......       It's confusing to me as to why there are three different device/scene settings that have to be made inside the adjust scene configuration.   Not understanding the thought process behind it might be part of my issue, however I have tried every possible combination of those settings without luck.   I am obviously missing something, probably simple.

 

Scenes are controlled and respond depending on what is controlling it and what is responding.

1) The "base" scene in ISY is what happens when ISY turns the scene on/off.  In this case, ISY (actually the plm)  is the controller.  Each device in the scene is set according to what you desire when ISY is controlling the scene.  This group of settings looks a little different in the menu tree, but it in the background it is the same.  The plm is just one more device in the scene and as a controller, you need to define how all of the other devices respond to it.

2) For each additional device in the scene that is set as a "controller", each and every other device must be set as to how you want it to respond.  For example, If a scene has 4 controlling devices and 10 total devices (not including isy/plm), then you will need to set what happens to each of the 10 devices when each of the 4 controllers is activated, plus a 5th group of settings for when ISY controls it.  That means 46 settings (10 for ISY as controller, and 9 each for the other 4).  Unfortunately, a feature was removed from ISY firmwares that allowed you to propogate the base scene settings through to all other controllers with a single click.  This feature was removed because, as I understand, there are conflicts on settings because of the ability to mix and match various types of devices in scenes.

3)Finally, each device has its local setting.  In other words, what does that device do when you push a button on that device.  This is what I set in the above program.  If a switch is the lone for a light, then this is the only thing that needs to be set.  This setting exists for every device regardless of whether it has any scene associations.  When you have a scene open in the main admin console, and you click on any of the controlling devices (those in red), you will see then that this device lists its setting as "Default".  In other words, it will "respond to itself" as per the setting you created for the individual switch (it local setting).    

Note: If a scene has been configured to be a 3-way/4-way where multiple switches are all configured to control a single load, then technically the only device that needs its responding level adjusted is the one switch wired to the load.  However, if you want the little column of led's on the other switches to properly correspond to the light level, then you need to set all of them.

This is all a bit complex because Insteon/ISY offers so many ways to customize your devices and groups of devices.

Edited December 3, 2019 by apostolakisl

[zerop]

If you look at my previous posts in this thread on how to accomplish this, it is for using firmware version 4.  I've since upgraded to v5 and here is how to do it in v5.  You don't use "Adjust Scene" but instead use "Your Device".

 

Here's how to do it (use "on level").

 

DON'T use "On" like this (subtle difference).

 

Here are all your options such as changing ramp rates too.

Edited December 3, 2019 by zerop

[bretta]

2 hours ago, zerop said:

If you look at my previous posts in this thread on how to accomplish this, it is for using firmware version 4.  I've since upgraded to v5 and here is how to do it in v5.  You don't use "Adjust Scene" but instead use "Your Device".

 

Thanks mate.    That works.      I initially thought this did not work, but found an errant scene I'd placed the light in during all my messing around that was interfering with the program.

The "else" line is unnecessary, as if you're outside the time period specified, the program is off anyway, so won't react. 
The switch setting under the device listing in the main screen should be set to how you want it to react outside the specified time period, eg, 100%, 0.1 ramp rate, etc.
This is probably the default settings when first linked, but I'd messed the hell out of them during my attempts to solve this.  

Edited December 4, 2019 by bretta
Correction

[bretta]

21 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

@bretta

I'm not sure what exactly your use is.  But in my home, I have switches set up as "night lights".  This is all controlled by programs and allows one to push the off paddle when the light is already off to turn the light on very dim.  I set it to only work at night, but that is optional.

Lauren bath nt lt - [ID 0070][Parent 0075]

If
        'Lauren Bedroom / Lauren Bath-Mirror L' Status is Off
    And 'Lauren Bedroom / Lauren Bath-Mirror L' is switched Off
    And Program 'Dark Outside' is True
 
Then
        Set 'Lauren Bedroom / Lauren Bath-Mirror L' On 25%
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

OK, this one showed promise, but does not work.   Could be because of whatever you have in "dark outside" that I can't see.  

 

Thanks

[apostolakisl]

2 minutes ago, bretta said:

OK, this one showed promise, but does not work.   Could be because of whatever you have in "dark outside" that I can't see.  

 

Thanks

dark outside is just a sunset to sunrise program . . . in other words . . .its true when its dark outside.  Just drop that line if you don't want it.

[bretta]

7 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

dark outside is just a sunset to sunrise program . . . in other words . . .its true when its dark outside.  Just drop that line if you don't want it.

Turns out my test was moot, as it was most likely flawed by the same errant scene that was messing with Zerop's method also.     Now that I have it working via Zerop's method, I'm not touching it, lest I break it again! 

 

[zerop]

24 minutes ago, bretta said:

Thanks mate.    That works.      I initially thought this did not work, but found an errant scene I'd placed the light in during all my messing around that was interfering with the program.

The "else" line is unnecessary, as if you're outside the time period specified, the program is off anyway, so won't react. 
The switch setting under the device listing in the main screen should be set to how you want it to react outside the specified time period, eg, 100%, 0.1 ramp rate, etc.
This is probably the default settings when first linked, but I'd messed the hell out of them during my attempts to solve this.  

The "else" line in the last two screen shots had a mistake in them.  The "then" line should set it to 20% and the "else" line should show setting it back to 100%.  See the first screen shot for my actual program.

[bretta]

4 minutes ago, zerop said:

The "else" line in the last two screen shots had a mistake in them.  The "then" line should set it to 20% and the "else" line should show setting it back to 100%.  See the first screen shot for my actual program.

Yes, I noticed the mistake and realized it was just that, but my point is, the "else" line should not be necessary at all. You could leave it blank.   The else line is only for outside the specified hours, except outside those hours, the program is not active.

[zerop]

4 hours ago, bretta said:

Yes, I noticed the mistake and realized it was just that, but my point is, the "else" line should not be necessary at all. You could leave it blank.   The else line is only for outside the specified hours, except outside those hours, the program is not active.

I need the "else" line to set the on level back to 100% outside of those hours.  If there is no "else" line then the light will never go on to 100%.

Edited December 4, 2019 by zerop

[zerop]

4 hours ago, bretta said:

Yes, I noticed the mistake and realized it was just that, but my point is, the "else" line should not be necessary at all. You could leave it blank.   The else line is only for outside the specified hours, except outside those hours, the program is not active.

This program

 

would do the exact same thing as this program

 

Programs with a time frame aren't "active" and then "not active" in the sense that you're thinking (I think).  At 4am the program will run once.  It will adjust the setting in the light switch so that when the light switch is turned on the light will only go to 20% on.  If there is nothing in the "else" part of the program then the light switch is never adjusted back so that when the light switch is turned on the light will go to 100% on.  If there is nothing in the "else" the light switch will always be turned on to 20%.  In the second example program, the program will run a second time at 6am but it will do nothing.  Hence, in my program I have in the "else" part something setting the on level of the light back to 100% after 6am.  A program with a time frame like this will only run twice (unless it is called/run by another program or if you have a state variable also added in the "if" section and the state variable changes values).  It will run the "then" part at the start of the time frame and the "else" part at the end of the time frame.