larryllix Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 hours ago, upstatemike said: Where I live we are still waiting for the full build out of 4G or fiber or fast cable even. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for 5G to do anything. The 5G I was referring to will be a home router, not the mobile cell providers. Our cell providers in Ontario, Canada are dumping 3G. Lucky Mobile is offering 3G (choked) speeds on 4G starting at $10 per month with their SIM cards in the dollar stores. Link to comment
Mustang65 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: For example, I have no desire for energy monitoring. I know if I turn something on its using electricity. How much it uses isn't going to make me stop using that device, so energy monitoring (or lack of) isn't going to make or break it for me. I never did either... until one day I realized, why should I pay higher energy rates for drying my cloths when I can dry them for less $$$ by just switching time I run the dryer. I wish there was an easy way to rewire the cloths dryer to work with ISY, so I could just throw the clothes into the dryer, close the dryer door and ISY would start the dryer/notify me that it started, it already texts me when it stops. Have not seen any products that will remove and fold them. Although, we do have that portion covered... wife yells out from the living room, got a text dryer is done... so I take them out, lay them out and she folds them. On occasion, my small coffee pot gets left on and can stay on all day $$$$. My air compressor, dish washer.... not much you can do for the HVAC here in Florida. What I am working on now is having ISY/GEM monitor the electric for the HVAC. I want to program ISY to let me know when the HVAC is running and it sees that the HVAC is using more power than it normally does (maybe 5 or 10% above the normal load reading), which COULD be an indicator for the start of some problem. I already have 4 DS18B20 temperature sensors mounted on various places in HVAC to monitor the compressor input/output temperatures (on my Arduino at this time). I have used the GEM to balance my loads. When I got the GEM the first thing I noticed was that one of the mains was way out of proportion to the other. It took about a week but they are almost equal. Again, 1950's electricians just wired things in with no thought on loads. As for the coffee pot, it is the only thing on one of the breakers (after kitchen remod), so ISY can look at the GEM output and see that the coffee pot has been on for more than 6 minutes and shut the circuit down. With the X10, I just put scheduled off commands to cover my butt, now I want to get the most out of the GEM/ISY. The GEM and ecobee have already saved me $500, when the HVAC was not heating the house. Called the service guy on a Saturday, said it was the HVAC circuit board and it would cost $500 to get/install on Monday. I pulled the GEM data and the ecobee data, matched the times and noticed that the HVAC heat pump was shutting off at exactly 40 degrees. Checked the ecobee and noticed that heat pump was programmed to shut down at 40 degrees, lowered the temp and we were back in operation. Being retired every penny saved is a penny toward more electronic gadgets..... Sooner or later, California residents may be FORCED into Home Automation/Control and Energy Management... look at SOLAR in CA Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, upstatemike said: There is no one size fits all but I wonder if there should be? Home Wi-Fi for networking would be pretty messed up there were a dozen different Wi-Fi schemes using different frequencies and you had to deploy several of them to use all of the different Wi-Fi devices you own. It would be nice to have a clear winner on a Home Automation protocol standard so companies could compete on features, price, and quality rather than on competing closed ecosystems. I did think that way but none of the WiFi HA devices stream video and their usage is extremely short burst of a few packets. Mind you I have found with http bulb protocols you have to keep them awake to get a response in less than 2-3 seconds, so I have to hit them all every 45 seconds or so. That is what 2.4GHz WiFi is for, anyway....the slow stuff. Link to comment
Mustang65 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Since 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi has 14 channels, why can't the modules be programmed to use different Wi-Fi channels instead of all on say channel 3. Maybe, door sensors on channel 6, motion sensors on channel 4, leak sensors on channel 8, media on 5.8Ghz. Granted it would need a dedicated Wi-Fi router (or a HUB) designed for this purpose. Just a thought for future technology. 2.4Ghz for Home Automation/Control/Energy Management... 5.8Ghz for laptops, media centers.... Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mustang65 said: Since 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi has 14 channels, why can't the modules be programmed to use different Wi-Fi channels instead of all on say channel 3. Maybe, door sensors on channel 6, motion sensors on channel 4, leak sensors on channel 8, media on 5.8Ghz. Granted it would need a dedicated Wi-Fi router (or a HUB) designed for this purpose. Just a thought for future technology. 2.4Ghz for Home Automation/Control/Energy Management... 5.8Ghz for laptops, media centers.... Agreed. Here is a map of our uncrowded neighbourhood. Notice how routers are using five channel bandwidth to achieve the almost 1 Gbps? Link to comment
Geddy Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 hours ago, larryllix said: <snip> I have 148 devices showing on my DHCP router table. I can, and have, animated my bulbs and the WiFi traffic is insignificant now that my WiFi does almost a 1 Gbps. <snip> Holy crap! 148 devices? Okay...here's something to point out, and something I ran up against with my in-laws moving to rural Atlanta area...some ISP supplied modem/router will limit the quantity of connected devices. Sure, you can get in and update that, but sometimes you've got to get the provider to help lift the limit. It could really become an issue for people adding wifi plugs, switches, and bulbs if they're limited to DHCP connected devices. Yes, most of us here will say "buy your own router", and we are probably technically proficient enough to do that with little thought. But, some that want some simple remote control for devices while on the other side of the house or other side of town the customer will go the easy route and just buy a wifi plug that says "no hub needed" and "works with Amazon/Google". Only to eventually have an issue with number of connected devices and then risk having kids or grandkids crying when the wifi doesn't work. (believe me...1st hand experience!) Interesting topic and discussion for potential options, but as most have said existing equipment will continue to work so if we're invested in this equipment let's keep going with the way we've been going. Let's hope that if there are issues for the company that provides these devices that either another company picks up the product line and continues to run the production lines and able to provide the community these options. The future is unknown. Why spend time worrying about it if you're already invested in this ecosystem? If it works...use it. If it works for what you want it to do then enjoy the satisfaction of the joy it brings you. I'm more worried about these fly by night outfits that are supplying low cost wifi only devices. And while I'm not smart enough to really concern myself with the potential security flaw with these devices I'm more worried about durability. I've had a wifi LED lightbulb for almost 3 years that failed last month. What sucks is it was a $30 bulb at the time, and now the company isn't producing bulbs. So now if I want another in that lamp I have to buy a different brand, have a different app on my phones/tablets. Instead I'll just buy another Insteon outlet to be able to include that lamp in the ISY now. I think the real question should be - do you want a single supplier for home "automation" or do you want a bunch of random apps for each time you buy wifi only switches, plugs, or bulbs and then you have to remember which app to turn on the lamp next to your bed. Home Automation is a process, not simply just being able to turn things on/off. Link to comment
lilyoyo1 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mustang65 said: I never did either... until one day I realized, why should I pay higher energy rates for drying my cloths when I can dry them for less $$$ by just switching time I run the dryer. I wish there was an easy way to rewire the cloths dryer to work with ISY, so I could just throw the clothes into the dryer, close the dryer door and ISY would start the dryer/notify me that it started, it already texts me when it stops. Have not seen any products that will remove and fold them. Although, we do have that portion covered... wife yells out from the living room, got a text dryer is done... so I take them out, lay them out and she folds them. On occasion, my small coffee pot gets left on and can stay on all day $$$$. My air compressor, dish washer.... not much you can do for the HVAC here in Florida. What I am working on now is having ISY/GEM monitor the electric for the HVAC. I want to program ISY to let me know when the HVAC is running and it sees that the HVAC is using more power than it normally does (maybe 5 or 10% above the normal load reading), which COULD be an indicator for the start of some problem. I already have 4 DS18B20 temperature sensors mounted on various places in HVAC to monitor the compressor input/output temperatures (on my Arduino at this time). I have used the GEM to balance my loads. When I got the GEM the first thing I noticed was that one of the mains was way out of proportion to the other. It took about a week but they are almost equal. Again, 1950's electricians just wired things in with no thought on loads. As for the coffee pot, it is the only thing on one of the breakers (after kitchen remod), so ISY can look at the GEM output and see that the coffee pot has been on for more than 6 minutes and shut the circuit down. With the X10, I just put scheduled off commands to cover my butt, now I want to get the most out of the GEM/ISY. The GEM and ecobee have already saved me $500, when the HVAC was not heating the house. Called the service guy on a Saturday, said it was the HVAC circuit board and it would cost $500 to get/install on Monday. I pulled the GEM data and the ecobee data, matched the times and noticed that the HVAC heat pump was shutting off at exactly 40 degrees. Checked the ecobee and noticed that heat pump was programmed to shut down at 40 degrees, lowered the temp and we were back in operation. Being retired every penny saved is a penny toward more electronic gadgets..... Sooner or later, California residents may be FORCED into Home Automation/Control and Energy Management... look at SOLAR in CA I get what you're saying. I'm just not that way not is my wife. For me none of that matters. I could save a few dollars by washing/drying clothes at a different time, but what good is that if it means I'm doing it at a time where I prefer doing something else? We wash for it convenience not a few dollars. Our house is a newer home as are our appliances and so forth. While they can and will fail, the same holds true for them. Every year we get our equipment serviced. While something can break between servicing, I can live with the cost of calling someone. Whether I catch my hvac about to break out after it breaks, I'm still calling someone. I'm from California and my mindset is the same there and here in NC. I'm good with paying for the stuff I purchased to enjoy. Monitoring isn't going to change that to why do it Link to comment
upstatemike Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, Mustang65 said: Since 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi has 14 channels, why can't the modules be programmed to use different Wi-Fi channels instead of all on say channel 3. Maybe, door sensors on channel 6, motion sensors on channel 4, leak sensors on channel 8, media on 5.8Ghz. Granted it would need a dedicated Wi-Fi router (or a HUB) designed for this purpose. Just a thought for future technology. 2.4Ghz for Home Automation/Control/Energy Management... 5.8Ghz for laptops, media centers.... In the US 2.4 GHz only has 3 non-overlapping channels: 1, 6, and 11. 2.4 GHz is also too high a frequency to provide good penetration for IoT devices that need to operate in old work metal electrical boxes or in walls made of brick or stone. You would also need special routers or Wireless Access Points with multiple radios to handle the traffic on different 2.4 GHz channels. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, upstatemike said: In the US 2.4 GHz only has 3 non-overlapping channels: 1, 6, and 11. 2.4 GHz is also too high a frequency to provide good penetration for IoT devices that need to operate in old work metal electrical boxes or in walls made of brick or stone. You would also need special routers or Wireless Access Points with multiple radios to handle the traffic on different channels. One thing a few of us have discovered is not to use the automatic channel selection in your router. They never seem work to avoid other users. I changed my channel a few months back only to find my neighbour automatically changed his and clobbered my signal again. I had my signal strength turned way down to cool my router down and it worked very well until the neighbour had more signal strength, in my home, than my router. This is when I figured out how the automatic channel selection works. If and when your router reboots, it looks for a no signal channel 0-16, and selects the one with the least signal found on it. If you do not have your router on a routine cycle to reboot, the channel will never change. Routers all come set to channel 1,6, or 11 but can be user set to any channel desired. The four channel bandwidth gives much higher data speeds but single channel modes can still be selected with much lower bandwidth. See the screenshot I posted above. Link to comment
TFWhome Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I was somewhat shocked to not see Insteon at CEDIA. Even a company that makes alarm systems using RPi's was there. Very sad to see Insteon not make an appearance. Maybe it's because they haven't launched a single new device in YEARS. For those of you who say Lutron is limited in devices clearly has no idea what they are talking about. Your budget may not allow it, but Lutron lets remember created lighting controls. They know a thing or two about this. If they wanted to, Insteon could be coming out with some great new devices, it just seems they have lost their edge. I have seen anything regarding ELV or Reverse Phase dimming. DMX controls or anything in regards to where the future of lighting is going. Also, their dimmers do a HORRIBLE job of dimming LED's. Lucky to get 10% dimming on them. Remember 10% dim on LED is equal to 32% perceived light.... Link to comment
apostolakisl Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. This segment of the discussion was about hubs and simplicity. What the general public wants. Puttputt and golf are 2 different things which is why neither worries about market share. That's why you don't see puttputt making millionaires unlike golf. The same as automation vs control crowd. The control crowd isn't aware they are the control crowd. In their minds they have automation. Control and automation is one in the same to them so there is nothing for someone to "take over" which is why automation will be a niche market Builders that focus on building homes and providing a comprehensive package will use a specialist to wire in an automation system. Whether they use lutron, Control4, crestron is irrelevant. They are selling a package to someone willing to pay for it and do the work for them. Some builders will add some smart devices such as a Sonos component, thermostat, and Ring camera to say they are doing something. Its a quick and easy way to claim smart home without investing alot. This is a far cry from Joe Schmo who simply wants to turn a few lights on in his man cave. He or she will start with that small project, love it and add more to another area. They aren't aware or understandof the impact of adding too many devices to their Network. The fact is, if hub usage/desire were growing, more companies would be looking at building hubs. They arent. Its a niche market. The ones in that space will fight amongst each other for their respective market just like the home control crowd will do the same for theirs. The control crowd will just be much larger The point here goes back to "is insteon disappearing". An argument you are making is that Insteon needs a hub and that is just too complicated. In the context of how complicated it is too physically replace a switch . . .linking is far and away the easy part. ISY is fairly complex, but you may not need or want that. The Insteon hub is fairly simple and could be very simple if they just fixed the firmware a bit. A hub can be just as simple as a direct to wifi if the firmware is written that way. Certainly for a "lamplinc" type device a novice would be inclined to just buy it, plug it in and be done. But swapping out a switch . . .especially one in say a 3 gang box and being a 3 or 4 way switch suddenly becomes 30 minutes for electrician and probably more than an hour for the standard decently skilled home owner and probably a 1/2 days work for the novice home owner by the time they watch 10 youtube videos and get all scared and stuff and do it wrong twice. So for a wall switch . . . plug and play is never an option. If your going to swap a switch, you are invested and aren't going to care about pushing one extra button. And then there is still the router issues. Most home grade routers don't do well with lots of clients. Many brands limit you to 50 clients unless you manually override it, and there is a reason for that and it isn't bandwidth (I forget the real reason but this was all explained in very complex terms by a network pro on Cocoon a couple years ago). In short, if you have a plug and play device (ie lamplinc) and you only plan on having a few of them, then direct to wifi is great and that is why they sell them at wall mart. Those companies need 50 to 100 customers however to sell the same volume that a true HA company sells to 1 customer like your or me. Link to comment
Mustang65 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, TFWhome said: ............. Maybe it's because they haven't launched a single new device in YEARS. I was watching one of those interviews with the Insteon , forgot his name, Steve??? Well, in response to one of the products question, he mentioned that Insteon has far to many products, and left it at that. So reading between the lines..... Also here is the top of their Press Release page.. not much for 2019, wait nothing for 2019 Link to comment
apostolakisl Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 42 minutes ago, Mustang65 said: I was watching one of those interviews with the Insteon , forgot his name, Steve??? Well, in response to one of the products question, he mentioned that Insteon has far to many products, and left it at that. So reading between the lines..... Also here is the top of their Press Release page.. not much for 2019, wait nothing for 2019 Yes, clearly they have been paring down to just the stuff that sells in volume. No doubt, they lost money on some of those odd-ball things like dimming ballasts and synchrolincs. Sad thing is, that those are the things that made you want to use Insteon for everything. I understand it is a tough spot to be in. If they would open up their source code or at least let other companies buy their chips, I think Insteon would end up way better off. Link to comment
lilyoyo1 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, apostolakisl said: The point here goes back to "is insteon disappearing". An argument you are making is that Insteon needs a hub and that is just too complicated. In the context of how complicated it is too physically replace a switch . . .linking is far and away the easy part. ISY is fairly complex, but you may not need or want that. The Insteon hub is fairly simple and could be very simple if they just fixed the firmware a bit. A hub can be just as simple as a direct to wifi if the firmware is written that way. Certainly for a "lamplinc" type device a novice would be inclined to just buy it, plug it in and be done. But swapping out a switch . . .especially one in say a 3 gang box and being a 3 or 4 way switch suddenly becomes 30 minutes for electrician and probably more than an hour for the standard decently skilled home owner and probably a 1/2 days work for the novice home owner by the time they watch 10 youtube videos and get all scared and stuff and do it wrong twice. So for a wall switch . . . plug and play is never an option. If your going to swap a switch, you are invested and aren't going to care about pushing one extra button. And then there is still the router issues. Most home grade routers don't do well with lots of clients. Many brands limit you to 50 clients unless you manually override it, and there is a reason for that and it isn't bandwidth (I forget the real reason but this was all explained in very complex terms by a network pro on Cocoon a couple years ago). In short, if you have a plug and play device (ie lamplinc) and you only plan on having a few of them, then direct to wifi is great and that is why they sell them at wall mart. Those companies need 50 to 100 customers however to sell the same volume that a true HA company sells to 1 customer like your or me. My point wasn't that insteon needs a hub because it technically doesn't. I wasn't referring to insteon directly but hubs in general. We had already gotten past insteon at that point and were talking about the desire of people using hubs and I said I felt hubs that would be part of a niche market as the space was moving away from that. Hubs aren't making a comeback for the masses. They won't completely disappear as there are use cases but for most people, they're simply isn't a need. Link to comment
lilyoyo1 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, TFWhome said: I was somewhat shocked to not see Insteon at CEDIA. Even a company that makes alarm systems using RPi's was there. Very sad to see Insteon not make an appearance. Maybe it's because they haven't launched a single new device in YEARS. For those of you who say Lutron is limited in devices clearly has no idea what they are talking about. Your budget may not allow it, but Lutron lets remember created lighting controls. They know a thing or two about this. If they wanted to, Insteon could be coming out with some great new devices, it just seems they have lost their edge. I have seen anything regarding ELV or Reverse Phase dimming. DMX controls or anything in regards to where the future of lighting is going. Also, their dimmers do a HORRIBLE job of dimming LED's. Lucky to get 10% dimming on them. Remember 10% dim on LED is equal to 32% perceived light.... Dimming with insteon is no different than dimming with zwave devices. Low dimming is a problem with leds regardless of device maker. One only needs to read reviews of led bulbs to see it's an industry issue With the right bulbs, insteon does pretty well just like other dimmers. I use the free 90+ cri and Philips warm flow line and both go pretty low with insteon. Is it incandescent low- No. But then again you won't be getting that from LEDs unless it's a smart bulb. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Dimming with insteon is no different than dimming with zwave devices. Lie dimming is a problem with less regardless of device maker. One only needs to read reviews of led bulbs to see it's an industry issue With the right bulbs, insteon does pretty well just like other dimmers. I use the free 90+ cri and Philips warm flow line and both go pretty low with insteon. Is it incandescent low- No. But then again you won't be getting that from LEDs unless it's a smart bulb. Yes, as @Teken posted years ago, a dumb bulb can never be dimmed down below about 10%, but a smart bulb, incl. the four or five brands I have tried, can dim down to 1% without even a flicker as they have an unlimited power supply at all times. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: My point wasn't that insteon needs a hub because it technically doesn't. I wasn't referring to insteon directly but hubs in general. We had already gotten past insteon at that point and were talking about the desire of people using hubs and I said I felt hubs that would be part of a niche market as the space was moving away from that. Hubs aren't making a comeback for the masses. They won't completely disappear as there are use cases but for most people, they're simply isn't a need. Unfortunately our argument about two types of users, makes it even more likely Insteon could bite the dust. Before the remote control crowd became a division, the select few of us were all lumped into one basket, called HA. Many of us turned to Insteon as one of the best working systems out there. Some stayed with X10, some entered brave new worlds, where no man has gone before. Now with much of the crowd just wanting "Plug'n Pray" it pulls more of the crowd (percentage wise) away from the niche market that wants a smart control centre to do logic and cooler things. We already hear the occasional cry here about ISY being too complicated and antiquated with it's complicated programming techniques. Geeesh, even Win 10 went back to the old 80's Dos ascii graphics look with it's all black and white, square cornered boxes again. How simple can a programmable box system get where you can never get a syntax error, or a device that isn't capable of what you attempted? Obviously some have never worked in any programming environment, and tried to debug a complex system. Alas! They don't want complex systems. A simple off delay timer is the extend of their thinking past remote control. How does a timer improve the cool look of an app? (sarc). I finalise this rant with a product I just saw in Staples today. A wall switch which appeared to control the Hue coloured (US='colored') bulbs for about $40 CAD!. Cheap enough but the part that made me chuckle, with this thread going on, in big letters, was: "WORKS RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX" Link to comment
BoomerangThree Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 38 minutes ago, larryllix said: Unfortunately our argument about two types of users, makes it even more likely Insteon could bite the dust. Before the remote control crowd became a division, the select few of us were all lumped into one basket, called HA. Many of us turned to Insteon as one of the best working systems out there. Some stayed with X10, some entered brave new worlds, where no man has gone before. Now with much of the crowd just wanting "Plug'n Pray" it pulls more of the crowd (percentage wise) away from the niche market that wants a smart control centre to do logic and cooler things. We already hear the occasional cry here about ISY being too complicated and antiquated with it's complicated programming techniques. Geeesh, even Win 10 went back to the old 80's Dos ascii graphics look with it's all black and white, square cornered boxes again. How simple can a programmable box system get where you can never get a syntax error, or a device that isn't capable of what you attempted? Obviously some have never worked in any programming environment, and tried to debug a complex system. Alas! They don't want complex systems. A simple off delay timer is the extend of their thinking past remote control. How does a timer improve the cool look of an app? (sarc). I finalise this rant with a product I just saw in Staples today. A wall switch which appeared to control the Hue coloured (US='colored') bulbs for about $40 CAD!. Cheap enough but the part that made me chuckle, with this thread going on, in big letters, was: "WORKS RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX" I look at this way... 1. 1st Insteon is not going away. Will it morph, be merged, bought, maybe. Out of business, I don't think so, but of course one cannot say for sure what the future holds. I see Insteon investing in the future (which for some might be a sign of weakness or strength) https://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2017/6/13/richmond-capital-partners-acquires-smartlabs-and-fortifies-company-with-73-million-in-funding-to-accelerate-the-companys-push-in-the-iot-industry https://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2018/1/23/insteon-support-for-tesla-with-eveconnect https://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2018/1/8/insteon-announces-alliance-with-the-google-assistant https://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2017/1/18/new-motion-sensor-from-insteon-enhances-motion-activated-lighting ect... 2. Insteon has a mature IoT infrastructure, broad user base, proven technology 3. Yeah, does it need a some enhancements in the area of a fresh user experience, I guess, I haven't used the Insteon Hub in years, so I cannot say what that experience is like. Are they marketing well against some of the newcomers, no, but perhaps the $73m funding from Richmond Capital will improve that. 4. Based on the participation in this forum, Insteon has a mature platform that can relatively easily be built upon with a fresh user experience and capabilities that are present in some of the competition. 5. Bottom line with me, I don't see Insteon going away anytime soon. The battle for IoT has just begun and we have not even begun to enter a shake out phase. When that comes, I have to believe that Insteon will be standing and standing much stronger. With all that, one of the reasons I continue to invest in ISY is that it's hub approach and now Polyglot will do a great job in ensuring that my investment and time in it will be well serviced no matter what the technology. In a hub and spoke world, ISY can be both, a hub for Insteon, Z-Wave, who knows what else down the road and a spoke for Amazon Echo which in turn is a hub for pretty much everything. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, BoomerangThree said: I look at this way... 1. 1st Insteon is not going away. Will it morph, be merged, bought, maybe. Out of business, I don't think so, but of course one cannot say for sure what the future holds. I see Insteon investing in the future (which for some might be a sign of weakness or strength) https://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2017/6/13/richmond-capital-partners-acquires-smartlabs-and-fortifies-company-with-73-million-in-funding-to-accelerate-the-companys-push-in-the-iot-industry https://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2018/1/23/insteon-support-for-tesla-with-eveconnect https://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2018/1/8/insteon-announces-alliance-with-the-google-assistant https://www.insteon.com/press-releases-blog/2017/1/18/new-motion-sensor-from-insteon-enhances-motion-activated-lighting ect... 2. Insteon has a mature IoT infrastructure, broad user base, proven technology 3. Yeah, does it need a some enhancements in the area of a fresh user experience, I guess, I haven't used the Insteon Hub in years, so I cannot say what that experience is like. Are they marketing well against some of the newcomers, no, but perhaps the $73m funding from Richmond Capital will improve that. 4. Based on the participation in this forum, Insteon has a mature platform that can relatively easily be built upon with a fresh user experience and capabilities that are present in some of the competition. 5. Bottom line with me, I don't see Insteon going away anytime soon. The battle for IoT has just begun and we have not even begun to enter a shake out phase. When that comes, I have to believe that Insteon will be standing and standing much stronger. With all that, one of the reasons I continue to invest in ISY is that it's hub approach and now Polyglot will do a great job in ensuring that my investment and time in it will be well serviced no matter what the technology. In a hub and spoke world, ISY can be both, a hub for Insteon, Z-Wave, who knows what else down the road and a spoke for Amazon Echo which in turn is a hub for pretty much everything. I am hopeful Insteon will survive also, but every one of your links indicates poor ability to thrive. They have reported repeatedly lack of profits by selling off portions of the company for large chunks of money. That's a huge indicator they haven't managed well. The whole IoT is so **yawn** now. Even thermostat companies have done it. Announcing an MS, in this day and age, is like announcing a new car with an FM radio in it, right from the factory. They haven't shown an technology progress for years. Insteon's latest huge announcement was they are going to create an app. HA people find this really out of date by about 15 years, and the Remote Control crowd just isn't interested in lack of compatibility companies trying to isolate their users from the rest of the market. Complete marketing failure. We hear every few years Insteon is going to be announcing a big deal. We are still waiting. I really fear that announcement will be a new name or bankruptcy. I will likely be a dedicated Insteon user and supporter until the end. I really hope I don't see it. I still think they have the best protocol but the majority (Remote control app crowd) don't care. Link to comment
Mustang65 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Here is an email i received at noon today from Insteon. At least they sent something out for 2019. Read what they have to say click on the link Latest Insteon News.... Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mustang65 said: Here is what i received at noon today. At least they sent something out for 2019. Latest Insteon News.... Awesome! They gave some background and admitted they aren't perfect, like real human beings. That is a big change in attitude, There is hope! Is this only for Hub support? Link to comment
lilyoyo1 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 37 minutes ago, larryllix said: Awesome! They gave some background and admitted they aren't perfect, like real human beings. That is a big change in attitude, There is hope! Is this only for Hub support? Just the 2245 version. The 2242 will stick with the older app Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 37 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Just the 2245 version. The 2242 will stick with the older app Are those Hub versions? Link to comment
Mustang65 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Yes, I have the 2245 Hub, back in the original box Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Mustang65 said: Yes, I have the 2245 Hub, back in the original box I bought two hubs, originally. Once I discovered ISY and that Hubs were not HA devices, I packed both up and returned one, gave the other to my non-HA son. Once Alexa came out he went full steam with Remote Control but could never make the old Hub work with Alexa. He replaced it with the newer Hub and it works fine for the few Insteon devices I gifted him years ago. The original Hub was a waste of money and never used, even for Remote Control. Link to comment
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