Is anyone here afraid of Insteon disapearing?

[lilyoyo1]

And that hasnt changed. Marketing dictates what people buy. When you couple that with people who are too lazy to do basic research or even desire to do a little work to set something up, they'll always turn to the easiest thing. The media only reports how easy something was and no hub involved. They dont talk about the downsides of taking something to scale or should something go wrong

[larryllix]

That is how they can keep your wallet open.

Sent using Tapatalk
 

[Bumbershoot]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

It is meant to light up a wall or patch of ceiling, as if it were artwork. 

That's how I use a LIFX light to convey security status: the light itself is hidden over a piece of sculpture in a central part of the house.  The color of the light conveys the status of my various portals. If we leave a door open, it gets noticed.  It's very effective and unobtrusive. 

[apostolakisl]

I wonder what people actually do with many of these devices that they just dabble in?  Most of them seem to focus on "Look turn your light on from your phone".  For me, that is like .001% of what I use HA for.  I basically never need to control a light from my phone and only about 1% of the time use google or alexa.  99% of what I do is use logically constructed programs to make the house respond to me without me actually doing anything or doing very little.  Basically, lots of programs that takes input from motion sensors, cameras, alarm system status/events, time of day, season, weather, and so on to just do what I would be doing manually.  

To me that is what it is all about.  I would never mess with any of this if all it offered was remote control or some rudimentary timers.  

But I don't know.  My daughter wanted to turn her bedside lamp off without leaning over to the switch.  I said, sure, I'll make it so  you can tell your alexa.  That was too involved for her, she actually bought a clapper.  That's right, my teenage daughter gen whatever the heck they call them uses 1980 technology to turn her lamp off.  And then, when I was installing some shelves in her room, my drill was triggering that clapper like a strobe light.

[asbril]

53 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

I wonder what people actually do with many of these devices that they just dabble in?  Most of them seem to focus on "Look turn your light on from your phone".  For me, that is like .001% of what I use HA for.  I basically never need to control a light from my phone and only about 1% of the time use google or alexa.  99% of what I do is use logically constructed programs to make the house respond to me without me actually doing anything or doing very little.  Basically, lots of programs that takes input from motion sensors, cameras, alarm system status/events, time of day, season, weather, and so on to just do what I would be doing manually.  

To me that is what it is all about.  I would never mess with any of this if all it offered was remote control or some rudimentary timers.  

But I don't know.  My daughter wanted to turn her bedside lamp off without leaning over to the switch.  I said, sure, I'll make it so  you can tell your alexa.  That was too involved for her, she actually bought a clapper.  That's right, my teenage daughter gen whatever the heck they call them uses 1980 technology to turn her lamp off.  And then, when I was installing some shelves in her room, my drill was triggering that clapper like a strobe light.

That sounds familiar. My wife has neither interest or patience for my HA setup, though she uses it more than she realizes.  She sets her morning alarm on her phone but is backed-up (by me) with lights going on, curtains opening and music playing on the Google Home. A few minutes later, for my benefit, the music stops and the TV switches on. On holidays the program is disabled. She notices this without noticing it. Occasionally she will try Google Home to turn on the ceiling fan or to close the curtains, but GH does not like her  Latino accent  so she blames it all on me. ?

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

I wonder what people actually do with many of these devices that they just dabble in?  Most of them seem to focus on "Look turn your light on from your phone".  For me, that is like .001% of what I use HA for.  I basically never need to control a light from my phone and only about 1% of the time use google or alexa.  99% of what I do is use logically constructed programs to make the house respond to me without me actually doing anything or doing very little.  Basically, lots of programs that takes input from motion sensors, cameras, alarm system status/events, time of day, season, weather, and so on to just do what I would be doing manually.  

To me that is what it is all about.  I would never mess with any of this if all it offered was remote control or some rudimentary timers.  

But I don't know.  My daughter wanted to turn her bedside lamp off without leaning over to the switch.  I said, sure, I'll make it so  you can tell your alexa.  That was too involved for her, she actually bought a clapper.  That's right, my teenage daughter gen whatever the heck they call them uses 1980 technology to turn her lamp off.  And then, when I was installing some shelves in her room, my drill was triggering that clapper like a strobe light.

I actually get the why's of home control. Once you get past a person not having knowledge about what's out there, HA is a hard pill to swallow. Most people don't have the time, money, mind, or effort to achieve HA. 

HA is expensive no matter how you look at it. To do a whole home will cost a couple thousand dollars. Add sensors, outlets, locks, remotes, bulb, switch covers, etc. that number will quickly grow. How many people you know has 4k+ to spend just to control some lights and TV's?

A person's mind comes into play. When I walk into a house I see automation. I see a person's habits and I can then recreate that with the Isy to enhance their lives. Many people can't do that. They're excited just to be able to dim a light. Even on here, how many people will hold a button to dim a light vs having a preset? I remember once on here, someone wanted voice control and extra stuff to turn off their sprinklers when they go outside. My thing was why tell the sprinklers to go off. Why not unlock the door, go outside, and they turn off on their own. Some people simply can't grasp automation

Effort. This is part of time. But in the end, the desire to map out ones house, design and construct your vision and bring it to life is no easy task. HA is like an artist painting a picture. For an artist it's simple. For non artist like myself, it's a daunting task. The desire has to be strong. 

Now, let's talk time. Basic programming is easy. However once you have 100+ devices, how long do you think it would take to configure all of those as well as write programs to make it happen. I'm blessed in that this is job. Over the years I've developed a routine to cut down on time spent on any given project. We all have. Now imagine having to learn as you go and program all those devices. That's alot of work. Put all that together vs getting a few Lifx bulbs, 5 minute app configuration and now your done. All for 100 bucks. It's a no brainer

[Mustang65]

4 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Emergency doesn't necessarily mean fire or something major like that. Generally those things are covered with other alarm types. It could be anything that is of utmost importance to a person. For example, my lamps will turn red should I have a leak. I dont always check text messages so my lamps suddenly changing to red lets me know that something is going on. At that point, I can check my phone to see whats happening and where.

good idea... now you need to have the light in the room where the leak is flash red on/off and the rest just stay red. You can eliminate the text phase. Maybe a USB speaker in each room with water and then when there is leak in that room the red lights flash and the song "Row, Row, Row your boat..." starts playing in the room with the leak.... naaaaa, just have isy shut off the water and release the water pressure in the pipes so no more leaks out.

[lilyoyo1]

2 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

good idea... now you need to have the light in the room where the leak is flash red on/off and the rest just stay red. You can eliminate the text phase. Maybe a USB speaker in each room with water and then when there is leak in that room the red lights flash and the song "Row, Row, Row your boat..." starts playing in the room with the leak.... naaaaa, just have isy shut off the water and release the water pressure in the pipes so no more leaks out.

My water automatically shuts off already. My hue bulbs are in lamps. With 17 different locations that could potentially leak, it's easier/faster to get a message vs running around until I saw a flashing light. 

[apostolakisl]

Best reason yet to not have your house filled with wifi enabled devices:  https://english.madhyamam.com/en/science-technology/2019/oct/23/smart-light-bulbs-may-be-used-hack-personal-info-study

Each one of those is a security risk.  Unlike Insteon which can only be hacked by actually being very close to your home, and even then, can only control Insteon devices, a IoT device can be hacked from anywhere in the world and provide access to all connected devices in your home.  With a hub, only the hub is a security risk, much easier to manage that and also update with patches and so on.

[upstatemike]

5 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

Best reason yet to not have your house filled with wifi enabled devices:  https://english.madhyamam.com/en/science-technology/2019/oct/23/smart-light-bulbs-may-be-used-hack-personal-info-study

Each one of those is a security risk.  Unlike Insteon which can only be hacked by actually being very close to your home, and even then, can only control Insteon devices, a IoT device can be hacked from anywhere in the world and provide access to all connected devices in your home.  With a hub, only the hub is a security risk, much easier to manage that and also update with patches and so on.

Smartlabs needs to release a color smart bulb that uses the Insteon protocol so folks don't have to use those risky Wi-Fi devices.

[drich]

Between the almost-daily sales from Smarthome, the fact that they have outsourced support (at least judging by my experiences of the past year with their support dept), and the lack of any response from their engineering dept on defects in some of their devices (see my thread elsewhere on my FanLinc issues); I think it's just a matter of time until they cease to exist. My biggest problem is that I haven't found anything that can replace some of their devices -- and believe me I have looked. As far as I can tell there is no equivalent to the KeypadLinc or FanLinc from any vendor using any protocol. The few things I have seen that are equivalent to an InlineLinc or MicroDimmer just don't work all that well when I have tried them.

As other have said, if Insteon goes away I will probably go with a mix of technologies. I will likely end up with quite a bit more z-wave (I have some today and it drives me crazy with how often I have to rebuild the mesh) and a variety of other application-specific devices. As I have learned the hard way with my Ring Doorbell, I am not buying anything that only works over wifi or depends on the cloud or the existence of some other vendor's servers to operate. Sooner or later, if it doesn't run in my house, it is going to go away (case in point -- my Roost smoke detector batteries that no longer work because the vendor decided to stop supporting the older devices and the solution is to replace them at $35 each).

Personally I think it is more likely that Smarthome will disappear and they will sell the technology to some other vendor who will continue to support it and potentially enhance it if they think there is a market for it.

[lilyoyo1]

I guess if it's said often enough eventually someone will be able to say I told you so. Having sales isn't indicative of going out of business. It's a way of composing with low cost competitors without diluting their brand as well as a quick cash grab. 

I'm regards to engineering not responding- what engineering department from any company responds? UDI is the most accessible company I've seen but outside of troubleshooting, you don't hear a ton of other stuff. If engineers took fine to respond to customers they wouldn't have time to do their job. That's why there's tech support and customer service.

Welcome to the good ole USA. The land where customer support is outsourced to other countries and/or replaced by software that forces you to repeatt yourself 20x  when saying option 2. That's not going out of business, unfortunately it's the American way. If that was how we judged if a business wouldn't be around, the whole country would shut down

[apostolakisl]

The question I have . .. what does it actually cost them to make a switch?  If it is $5, then putting them on sale for $20 is doing just fine.  If it is $18, then they are in trouble.

The pricing strategy is perhaps a bit like airlines.  If you need a ticket that has to be right when you need it, you pay out the nose.  But if you can wait, then you get good deals.  So, perhaps, SH figures they will get the folks who are flexible to over buy on the sales, and get the "I'll buy only what I need exactly when I need it" people to pay out the nose.

[larryllix]

Nobody has been able to figure out their poor, or lack of marketing scheme yet, but despite all the customer frustration we hear, Insteon is still the top contender in the HA market.

 

Somebody's uncle has a lot of backing money.

 

 

 

Sent using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[asbril]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

top contender

or maybe pretender

[lilyoyo1]

47 minutes ago, asbril said:

or maybe pretender

We're not talking about zwave. ?

[Bumbershoot]

If this new PLM actually sees the light of day, then I think Smarthome might be indicating that they’re up to something interesting with Insteon.  My hope is that they’re not simply placating the UDI/Indigo crowd with this device, but that they’re releasing it as a prerequisite for something new on their end.  Ensuring the loyalty of HA early adopters like the folks here is important, but this crowd is also wedded to UDI.  I’ll bet that they would like to grow their own ecosystem as well, which the current hub probably can’t manage. 
https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/28097-advanced-iot-bridge-interface/

 

[lilyoyo1]

36 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

If this new PLM actually sees the light of day, then I think Smarthome might be indicating that they’re up to something interesting with Insteon.  My hope is that they’re not simply placating the UDI/Indigo crowd with this device, but that they’re releasing it as a prerequisite new for something on their end.  Ensuring the loyalty of HA early adopters like the folks here is important, but this crowd is also wedded to UDI.  I’ll bet that they would like to grow their own ecosystem as well, which the current hub probably can’t manage. 
https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/28097-advanced-iot-bridge-interface/

 

It'll see the light of day. Personally, I think insteon should focus on hardware. Sure, have the hub for those who seek ease of use or small projects but leave the heavy lifting to companies who specializes in that such as UDI. That way they can focus on what they know most without spreading themselves so thin that everything suffers. 

Listening to Steve Lee's comments and this new Plm, I suspect they are going to start focusing on the professional installer. While consumers will always have a place, they are finicky. Ready to jump at a moment's notice. However, if they can get builders, developers, and installers buying their wares, their business will grow exponentially more. 

[apostolakisl]

1 minute ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It'll see the light of day. Personally, I think insteon should focus on hardware. Sure, have the hub for those who seek ease of use or small projects but leave the heavy lifting to companies who specializes in that such as UDI. That way they can focus on what they know most without spreading themselves so thin that everything suffers. 

Listening to Steve Lee's comments and this new Plm, I suspect they are going to start focusing on the professional installer. While consumers will always have a place, they are finicky. Ready to jump at a moment's notice. However, if they can get builders, developers, and installers buying their wares, their business will grow exponentially more. 

I noticed that they have brought back ballast dimmers.  I just bought one.  This is more or less a professional item.  Hopefully they continue adding back in a lot of the more eclectic stuff that pros would want.

[upstatemike]

Very happy to see the new PLM specs... wonder how long till it is available? I would also like to see them resume custom etched labels for keypad buttons.

[TrojanHorse]

Very happy to see the new PLM specs... wonder how long till it is available? I would also like to see them resume custom etched labels for keypad buttons.

They’re making the custom buttons. I’d like to see them cheaper...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bumbershoot]

18 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I would also like to see them resume custom etched labels for keypad buttons.

I just bought some last month in light almond.  They were a bit hard to find on their website, but they were there.

[TrojanHorse]

I just bought some last month in light almond.  They were a bit hard to find on their website, but they were there.

Jinx. Did they stop the custom switch paddles?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bumbershoot]

1 minute ago, TrojanHorse said:

Did they stop the custom switch paddles?

I believe those have been gone for some time, but I’ve never shopped for them so I could easily be wrong.

[TrojanHorse]

I believe those have been gone for some time, but I’ve never shopped for them so I could easily be wrong.

Me too - I think you’re right.
I just ordered keypad buttons too. That said I think they were unavailable for a while - I think during the ownership transition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk