Insteon being discontinued?

[Brian H]

Maybe in the future but past experiences show me other wise.

I maybe biased as Smathome gave me the short end of the stick a few time.

I know UDI reversed engineered a few module in hopes of supporting them. Along with the famous UDI PLM firmware fiasco.

I also have no feelings that the new owners care about end users. Just the bottom line.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Brian H

[lilyoyo1]

30 minutes ago, Brian H said:

Maybe in the future but past experiences show me other wise.

I maybe biased as Smathome gave me the short end of the stick a few time.

I know UDI reversed engineered a few module in hopes of supporting them. Along with the famous UDI PLM firmware fiasco.

I also have no feelings that the new owners care about end users. Just the bottom line.

It's not that they don't care about end users. Power users are not their priority anymore. Their focus is on mass market since that's where the money is. 

That's the nature of business. Companies follow the money. If someone called me to run wires and install a stand alone camera system, mount TV's, alarm system, or program some remotes (individually), I'd turn them down. Why? There's no money in it. I used to do those things but as things have progressed, there's other avenues to take which has a greater ROI.

That's where Insteon is with things. What it costs to continuously release new product, bring new features, and stock a wide range of low selling products to keep people happy simply isn't worth the cost. They make more overall by selling to the masses who simply want to turn stuff on and off versus having a single switch do 20 different things 

Edited August 16, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[Teken]

It's not that they don't care about end users. Power users are not their priority anymore. Their focus is on mass market since that's where the money is. 
That's the nature of business. Companies follow the money. If someone called me to run wires and install a stand alone camera system, mount TV's, alarm system, or program some remotes (individually), I'd turn them down. Why? There's no money in it. I used to do those things but as things have progressed, there's other avenues to take which has a greater ROI.
That's where Insteon is with things. What it costs to continuously release new product, bring new features, and stock a wide range of low selling products to keep people happy simply isn't worth the cost. They make more overall by selling to the masses who simply want to turn stuff on and off versus having a single switch do 20 different things 

Nothing wrong in concentrating on core products that offer better profit. Everyone who is serious about business offers a Chevette vs Corvette.

One is the bread and butter that brings in steady revenue streams. While the other offers more performance, features, all the while showcasing the companies technology prowess!

What I take issue is some companies are able to offer a solid product that simply is a stripped down version of the same. There isn’t any less hardware quality just less features.

Think ISY Series Controller Pro vs Non Pro.

No where has UDI released an inferior product. All they did was offer a piece of hardware that is limited by software. At anytime the end user can (upgrade / update) the same by purchasing a software module / hardware.

This is simply an addition to a solid platform!

Is this the case with Insteon - no.

Have they offered a path ever to upgrade any piece of hardware - no.

So I’m not moved by comments that indicate *They are focused on the average consumer / bread and butter types*

Because all of us were the Chevette type and gradually worked hard to save for a Corvette! All of us still have a grocery getter in the the garage!

As it pertains to offering more vs less. Again I’ll have to affirm once again Smartlabs has never ever offered more. By that they have rarely if ever upgraded any hardware to offer MORE.

If one calls out 120-277 VAC hardware support whelps only an imbecile would say that’s a feature. It’s 2021 not 1976 because wide voltage support out of the gate addresses so many basic marketing and technical issues!

You literally made a device that can be used anywhere in the world minus the frequency requirements. This addresses at a high level voltage sag / surge conditions. It allows the hardware to be used in a commercial space.

Just this single example calls out something that took this company 20 years to figure out?!?

Now the latest new to them (bulb finally lit up) in their head is firmware ability?!?

It’s not like everyone else in the freaking world wasn’t doing the same?!? As stated 9999999999 times here the first person that gets these new modules should break it open.

If it uses quality and properly rated components with low ESR / Temp. This is proof they have learned and can be taken seriously. If on the other hand we see the same $0.00002 parts inside, well.

[MrBill]

15 hours ago, asbril said:

I understand but part of the discussion is going in circles.

It's the Popcorn thread....  Pop a big bowl (add real butter for Teken), sit back and enjoy the show...  It's also like tennis... it goes back and forth... and as it goes round round where it stops no one knows..  everyone will try to get the last word in tho.

[asbril]

Just now, MrBill said:

It's the Popcorn thread....  Pop a big bowl (add real butter for Teken), sit back and enjoy the show...  It's also like tennis... it goes back and forth... and as it goes round round where it stops no one knows..  everyone will try to get the last word in tho.

I know @MrBill but even watching tennis for too long can get tiring  

Some of the posts are new questions or bring new information, but a lot is repeated over and over again.

[MrBill]

15 minutes ago, asbril said:

but a lot is repeated over and over again.

And a lot of what is repeated over and over is supposition and prediction.  It's hard to keep straight what's actually fact.

There is no crystal ball, someday we will know how it happened and then it be "I knew that from the start" VS "that's not what was said back then"

[asbril]

3 minutes ago, MrBill said:

And a lot of what is repeated over and over is supposition and prediction.  It's hard to keep straight what's actually fact.

There is no crystal ball, someday we will know how it happened and then it be "I knew that from the start" VS "that's not what was said back then"

You eloquently make my point.

[larryllix]

47 minutes ago, MrBill said:

It's the Popcorn thread....  Pop a big bowl (add real butter for Teken), sit back and enjoy the show...  It's also like tennis... it goes back and forth... and as it goes round round where it stops no one knows..  everyone will try to get the last word in tho.

Then there is the usage of way too much salt and he won't tell anybody whether it contains sodium or potassium.

[larryllix]

56 minutes ago, Teken said:

Nothing wrong in concentrating on core products that offer better profit. Everyone who is serious about business offers a Chevette vs Corvette.

One is the bread and butter that brings in steady revenue streams. While the other offers more performance, features, all the while showcasing the companies technology prowess!

What I take issue is some companies are able to offer a solid product that simply is a stripped down version of the same. There isn’t any less hardware quality just less features.

Think ISY Series Controller Pro vs Non Pro.

No where has UDI released an inferior product. All they did was offer a piece of hardware that is limited by software. At anytime the end user can (upgrade / update) the same by purchasing a software module / hardware.

This is simply an addition to a solid platform!

Is this the case with Insteon - no.

Have they offered a path ever to upgrade any piece of hardware - no.

So I’m not moved by comments that indicate *They are focused on the average consumer / bread and butter types*

Because all of us were the Chevette type and gradually worked hard to save for a Corvette! All of us still have a grocery getter in the the garage!

As it pertains to offering more vs less. Again I’ll have to affirm once again Smartlabs has never ever offered more. By that they have rarely if ever upgraded any hardware to offer MORE.

If one calls out 120-277 VAC hardware support whelps only an imbecile would say that’s a feature. It’s 2021 not 1976 because wide voltage support out of the gate addresses so many basic marketing and technical issues!

You literally made a device that can be used anywhere in the world minus the frequency requirements. This addresses at a high level voltage sag / surge conditions. It allows the hardware to be used in a commercial space.

Just this single example calls out something that took this company 20 years to figure out?!?

Now the latest new to them (bulb finally lit up) in their head is firmware ability?!?

It’s not like everyone else in the freaking world wasn’t doing the same?!? As stated 9999999999 times here the first person that gets these new modules should break it open.

If it uses quality and properly rated components with low ESR / Temp. This is proof they have learned and can be taken seriously. If on the other hand we see the same $0.00002 parts inside, well.

So Insteon has some dim bulbs?

[Teken]

So Insteon has some dim bulbs?

We like to be PC * Less than bright*

[upstatemike]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It's not that they don't care about end users. Power users are not their priority anymore. Their focus is on mass market since that's where the money is. 

That's the nature of business. Companies follow the money. If someone called me to run wires and install a stand alone camera system, mount TV's, alarm system, or program some remotes (individually), I'd turn them down. Why? There's no money in it. I used to do those things but as things have progressed, there's other avenues to take which has a greater ROI.

That's where Insteon is with things. What it costs to continuously release new product, bring new features, and stock a wide range of low selling products to keep people happy simply isn't worth the cost. They make more overall by selling to the masses who simply want to turn stuff on and off versus having a single switch do 20 different things 

So what kind of job would you actually accept? (Serious question as I am trying to wrap my head around the factors that distinguish acceptable ROI stuff from low value or dead end strategies.)

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Teken said:

Nothing wrong in concentrating on core products that offer better profit. Everyone who is serious about business offers a Chevette vs Corvette.

One is the bread and butter that brings in steady revenue streams. While the other offers more performance, features, all the while showcasing the companies technology prowess!

What I take issue is some companies are able to offer a solid product that simply is a stripped down version of the same. There isn’t any less hardware quality just less features.

Think ISY Series Controller Pro vs Non Pro.

No where has UDI released an inferior product. All they did was offer a piece of hardware that is limited by software. At anytime the end user can (upgrade / update) the same by purchasing a software module / hardware.

This is simply an addition to a solid platform!

Is this the case with Insteon - no.

Have they offered a path ever to upgrade any piece of hardware - no.

So I’m not moved by comments that indicate *They are focused on the average consumer / bread and butter types*

Because all of us were the Chevette type and gradually worked hard to save for a Corvette! All of us still have a grocery getter in the the garage!

As it pertains to offering more vs less. Again I’ll have to affirm once again Smartlabs has never ever offered more. By that they have rarely if ever upgraded any hardware to offer MORE.

If one calls out 120-277 VAC hardware support whelps only an imbecile would say that’s a feature. It’s 2021 not 1976 because wide voltage support out of the gate addresses so many basic marketing and technical issues!

You literally made a device that can be used anywhere in the world minus the frequency requirements. This addresses at a high level voltage sag / surge conditions. It allows the hardware to be used in a commercial space.

Just this single example calls out something that took this company 20 years to figure out?!?

Now the latest new to them (bulb finally lit up) in their head is firmware ability?!?

It’s not like everyone else in the freaking world wasn’t doing the same?!? As stated 9999999999 times here the first person that gets these new modules should break it open.

If it uses quality and properly rated components with low ESR / Temp. This is proof they have learned and can be taken seriously. If on the other hand we see the same $0.00002 parts inside, well.

So you complain when they don't have something but then complain when they do get it! Either you just want to complain or there's simply nothing they can do right for you to be happy. 

In regards to Chevy and Corvettes, you do realize this isn't the 70s & 80s anymore and times have changed don't you? Just like with automation stuff, people have spoken. Chevy only has 1 model sedan and the Camaro is discontinued after 2023. No more saving to buy a Corvette. Either buy a truck/SUV or get a Corvette. Why!? No one is buying them.

Sure, you have enthusiasts who are in love with certain cars, but there just isn't enough of them to warrant the time, money, and effort in design, testing, and building. Ford is doing the same. They've already said they'll no longer build sedans. This is the business world we live in. You can complain and rant all you want but there's no changing that. Either adapt with the times or it's going to leave you behind. 

[Michel Kohanim]

2 hours ago, MrBill said:

Pop a big bowl (add real butter for Teken), sit back and enjoy the show

I can't !!! My mailbox is filled with notifications from this topic and, rather than popcorn, what's popping are my eyes and head. And, since unfinished things torture my soul, I will then have to come and read each post. So, my choices: unfollow the topic or lock it.  Or pray that SmartHome becomes either Smart or Home (not both).

With kind regards,
Michel

[DAlter01]

24 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

I can't !!! My mailbox is filled with notifications from this topic and, rather than popcorn, what's popping are my eyes and head. And, since unfinished things torture my soul, I will then have to come and read each post. So, my choices: unfollow the topic or lock it.  Or pray that SmartHome becomes either Smart or Home (not both).

With kind regards,
Michel

Michel,

If I had vote, I'd argue this thread has become more banter occupying idle time then learning about Insteon being discontinued.  I think that topic (discontinued) has been looked at from 6 different sides and is fully understood for now to the degree it can.  Maybe it is time to put this topic to rest for 6 months or so until Smartlabs does something else that leads our minds to wonder what is happening at that non-communicative place.  I'd vote "lock-er up".  If the idle time must be occupied, it will pick a new thread to start up on.

Edited August 16, 2021 by DAlter01

[MrBill]

11 minutes ago, DAlter01 said:

I think that topic (discontinued) has been looked at from 6 different sides and is fully understood for now to the degree it can. 

The problem is.... someone new comes along... i think Silverton did it this time... that doesn't read the entire thread... quotes a post towards the end... AND THEN EVERYONE HAS TO REPEAT WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID AT LEAST 22 TIMES.

[MrBill]

2 minutes ago, larryllix said:

So is SH going bankrupt or not? Something is being hidden here!

 

Richmond Capital Partners is in business to make money for investors.  THAT is literally the only point that matters.

[upstatemike]

I think a lot of people reading and commenting on this thread are trying to gather enough information to define a strategy and way forward for themselves regarding Insteon. Many just want to know if they should stick with it, switch to something else (and what), or give up on Home Automation entirely because the nature of the business assures there will never be sufficient finncial incetive for companies to support prosumer level enthusiasts to any real extent. Maybe the thread can expand into what hobby alternatives can be used to fill the void for those who choose to walk away from the frustration of Home Automation.

In any case as long as this thread has become I don't think it has yet provided enough information for most folks to settle on a way forward yet so it should be allowed to continue.

Edited August 16, 2021 by upstatemike

[asbril]

8 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I think a lot of people reading and commenting on this thread are trying to gather enough information to define a strategy and way forward for themselves regarding Insteon. Many just want to know if they should stick with it, switch to something else (and what), or give up on Home Automation entirely because the nature of the business assures there will never be sufficient finncial incetive for companies to support prosumer level enthusiasts to any real extent. Maybe the thread can expand into what hobby alternatives can be used to fill the void for those who choose to walk away from the frustration of Home Automation.

In any case as long as this thread has become I don't think it has yet provided enough information for most folks to setle on a way forward yet so it should be allowed to continue.

You make a good point for when someone brings something new.

Anyway we live (thankfully) in a free society and anyone can post whatever (decent) they want. I was just pointing out that, in absence of anything new and relevant, this was becoming boring.

Edited August 16, 2021 by asbril

[DAlter01]

7 minutes ago, larryllix said:

but if it gets stopped it will spawn into a new one. I have seen at least a dozen in my Insteon lifetime now.

My vote is to allow it to keep going and block if nobody wants to see it. It has become a joke anyway.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
 

Maybe rename the thread to "Daily Insteon/Smartlabs banter and other conspiracy theories"

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, upstatemike said:

So what kind of job would you actually accept? (Serious question as I am trying to wrap my head around the factors that distinguish acceptable ROI stuff from low value or dead end strategies.)

I now only do new construction on high end homes. It's where the money is. These are the people with more money than time. 

They'd rather pay a premium to get something done than use their free time to set up stuff themselves. Due to the size and type of the homes, my material costs are much higher by default. The sheer amount of wire along with needing higher quality stuff equals more money once mark up is added to that total. The sheer scope of a single job means less running around to different job sites which also increases .

I make more off equipment and materials alone than i did for an installation in a standard home. This is why I say the ROI is greater.

 

Here's a couple of the houses I'm doing now

[MrBill]

46 minutes ago, asbril said:

I was just pointing out that, in absence of anything new and relevant, this was becoming boring.

It is boring.... I don't actually read every post in this thread.... I only glance/speed read, If anything new actually shows up I can always back up and pay attention.

[asbril]

34 minutes ago, MrBill said:

It is boring.... I don't actually read every post in this thread.... I only glance/speed read, If anything new actually shows up I can always back up and pay attention.

Now my own input has become boring  

[MrBill]

26 minutes ago, asbril said:

Now my own input has become boring  

Actually I read your posts.... its the long ones that repeat what's already been said that i skim...

[upstatemike]

I can't believe it has been 18 hours with no posts to this topic!

[Teken]

So you complain when they don't have something but then complain when they do get it! Either you just want to complain or there's simply nothing they can do right for you to be happy. 
In regards to Chevy and Corvettes, you do realize this isn't the 70s & 80s anymore and times have changed don't you? Just like with automation stuff, people have spoken. Chevy only has 1 model sedan and the Camaro is discontinued after 2023. No more saving to buy a Corvette. Either buy a truck/SUV or get a Corvette. Why!? No one is buying them.
Sure, you have enthusiasts who are in love with certain cars, but there just isn't enough of them to warrant the time, money, and effort in design, testing, and building. Ford is doing the same. They've already said they'll no longer build sedans. This is the business world we live in. You can complain and rant all you want but there's no changing that. Either adapt with the times or it's going to leave you behind. 

You’re taking everything I stated out of context. I assumed the examples provided up above would drive home the disparity of how many companies do X vs Smartlabs doing Y.

The short story is they are always playing catch up.

As I referenced 120-277 VAC power handling / firmware support. Now whether or not someone can state with a straight face that this new line will be any better - that’s to be determined.

I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt this is a new page. But if I open one of these things in the next two years and it uses all of the same $0.00001 no name part?!?

Whelps, I’ll just rant about it forever on this forum and everywhere else! Because it’s clear they didn’t learn a damn thing from bozo the clown the during the first 20 years.

As an aside I’ve been working with no less than 25 companies that are literally start ups. Of the 25 only three missed the mark on what I consider core (BASE 1) design and philosophy as it pertains to releasing a solid product.

As I was given the opportunity to provide them technical feedback.

Guess what ??

These three companies over night adopted and updated the next iteration of the product / service to incorporate the same!!

That is the epitome of Lean Six Sigma.

Successful people and companies listen to their customers and take critical feedback and resolve / incorporate. One only needs to look at UDI / Brultech. Two small companies interacting with the actual customers on a consistent basis. Taking problems and solving them while offering more features every freaking year?!?

Can this be said of Smartlabs??

When the metric has been to take 5-10-20 years to fix a known bug. No, you’re not on the same level as Mom & Pop or anyone I just listed out.