asbril Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 20 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: I now only do new construction on high end homes. It's where the money is. These are the people with more money than time. They'd rather pay a premium to get something done than use their free time to set up stuff themselves. Due to the size and type of the homes, my material costs are much higher by default. The sheer amount of wire along with needing higher quality stuff equals more money once mark up is added to that total. The sheer scope of a single job means less running around to different job sites which also increases . I make more off equipment and materials alone than i did for an installation in a standard home. This is why I say the ROI is greater. Here's a couple of the houses I'm doing now I would expect these homes/owners to go for Control 4 ????
lilyoyo1 Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, asbril said: I would expect these homes/owners to go for Control 4 ???? They do. They don't really care what goes in. They just want it to work
lilyoyo1 Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Teken said: You’re taking everything I stated out of context. I assumed the examples provided up above would drive home the disparity of how many companies do X vs Smartlabs doing Y. The short story is they are always playing catch up. As I referenced 120-277 VAC power handling / firmware support. Now whether or not someone can state with a straight face that this new line will be any better - that’s to be determined. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt this is a new page. But if I open one of these things in the next two years and it uses all of the same $0.00001 no name part?!? Whelps, I’ll just rant about it forever on this forum and everywhere else! Because it’s clear they didn’t learn a damn thing from bozo the clown the during the first 20 years. As an aside I’ve been working with no less than 25 companies that are literally start ups. Of the 25 only three missed the mark on what I consider core (BASE 1) design and philosophy as it pertains to releasing a solid product. As I was given the opportunity to provide them technical feedback. Guess what ?? These three companies over night adopted and updated the next iteration of the product / service to incorporate the same!! That is the epitome of Lean Six Sigma. Successful people and companies listen to their customers and take critical feedback and resolve / incorporate. One only needs to look at UDI / Brultech. Two small companies interacting with the actual customers on a consistent basis. Taking problems and solving them while offering more features every freaking year?!? Can this be said of Smartlabs?? When the metric has been to take 5-10-20 years to fix a known bug. No, you’re not on the same level as Mom & Pop or anyone I just listed out. Why do you keep talking about 120-277 when that's been supported by them for years including in their existing products line? You're ranting and raving about something that's already existing and exists currently in the new line. You're simply regurgitating everythings that's already been acknowledged. Might as well save time and simply copy and paste the same argument! What known bug are you talking about? Edited August 17, 2021 by lilyoyo1 1
Teken Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 Why do you keep talking about 120-277 when that's been supported by them for years including in their existing products line? You're ranting and raving about something that's already existing and exists currently in the new line. You're simply regurgitating everythings that's already been acknowledged. Might as well save time and simply copy and paste the same argument! What known bug are you talking about?I’ll wager someone will say it’s a feature vs a bug?!? Think MSII and how it operates vs the first generation motion sensor. You’d think having read all over the internet someone would update the firmware to mimic the same use ability where and how it operates the time out?!?This is the perfect example of releasing another half baked product into the wild and left to die!I mean we already know Smartlabs can and will make changes to hardware via firmware updates.Think leak sensor and how there were no less than three different behaviours. All the while this company was too stupid to advise the public at large of the new change or so called feature enhancement?!? So why haven’t they ever updated the MSII firmware like they did for the leak sensor?I could keep going on to cite examples which you know are rooted in facts. Not some random guy spouting off just for fun. As it pertains to 120-277 VAC support. I was simply affirming this is standard fair and to provide those less technically inclined that insight. It in no way even comes close to the product offering any serious TVSS / SPD protection. If anyone has paid close attention they will see, find various hardware that call’s out some kind of surge rating.On the surface this really sounds great! Because the company has called out themselves this was one of the major killers to their hardware. As noted simply designing a piece of hardware to operate in 120-277 by default helps address voltage sag / rise conditions. But in no way does it supersede the need to incorporate real TVSS / SPD technology that span from simple RLC networks, SAD, GDT, MOV, etc.There are none in the hardware. This is even made worse because they call out a value say 1000 volts which isn’t referenced to any known *standard* or qualify how and when it reacts! They certainly do not cite any certification as seen in any SPD / TVSS that their hardware meets X. What we do see is a value indicated marketed to the public like they are dumb!So there’s my examples which you call a rant! 1
lilyoyo1 Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Teken said: I’ll wager someone will say it’s a feature vs a bug?!? Think MSII and how it operates vs the first generation motion sensor. You’d think having read all over the internet someone would update the firmware to mimic the same use ability where and how it operates the time out?!? This is the perfect example of releasing another half baked product into the wild and left to die! I mean we already know Smartlabs can and will make changes to hardware via firmware updates. Think leak sensor and how there were no less than three different behaviours. All the while this company was too stupid to advise the public at large of the new change or so called feature enhancement?!? So why haven’t they ever updated the MSII firmware like they did for the leak sensor? I could keep going on to cite examples which you know are rooted in facts. Not some random guy spouting off just for fun. As it pertains to 120-277 VAC support. I was simply affirming this is standard fair and to provide those less technically inclined that insight. It in no way even comes close to the product offering any serious TVSS / SPD protection. If anyone has paid close attention they will see, find various hardware that call’s out some kind of surge rating. On the surface this really sounds great! Because the company has called out themselves this was one of the major killers to their hardware. As noted simply designing a piece of hardware to operate in 120-277 by default helps address voltage sag / rise conditions. But in no way does it supersede the need to incorporate real TVSS / SPD technology that span from simple RLC networks, SAD, GDT, MOV, etc. There are none in the hardware. This is even made worse because they call out a value say 1000 volts which isn’t referenced to any known *standard* or qualify how and when it reacts! They certainly do not cite any certification as seen in any SPD / TVSS that their hardware meets X. What we do see is a value indicated marketed to the public like they are dumb! So there’s my examples which you call a rant! It is a rant....a rant on repeat. In regards to announcements, even if they did issue an announcement about changes, no one would read anyway. Look at how many redundant questions are on this forum about stuff that would've been avoided had a person decided to read for 2min. Besides that, the manual states what the behavior is, so the information is there readily available
larryllix Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: It is a rant....a rant on repeat. In regards to announcements, even if they did issue an announcement about changes, no one would read anyway. Look at how many redundant questions are on this forum about stuff that would've been avoided had a person decided to read for 2min. Besides that, the manual states what the behavior is, so the information is there readily available It's a rant triggered by constant reports from SH themselves. These are constantly retriggerd by SmartyPants/Insteon themselves, based on what they report to the public. Somebody at Insteon is either making a joke at our expense, or somebody inside the company wants it to fail. I doubt any person running a company is that stupid as Insteon tries to be. Edited August 17, 2021 by larryllix 2
LFMc Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) On 8/15/2021 at 5:30 PM, asbril said: 6) Nokia is coming with new line of (apparently) Insteon products. This one misleading statement is shown over and over in this topic and it misleads many, imho. Nokia's own words on their Smartlabs hosted web page clearly refutes it. Smartlabs is licensing the Nokia name for a "new" product line that is not available yet and is only sold by Smartlabs. Nokia produces nor sells nor backs any of it. If you can't read their disclaimer to the new product, here is the text: Quote The above Nokia-branded products are manufactured, imported, distributed and sold by or on behalf of Nokia’s brand licensees. Products are not available in all countries. Nokia is a registered trademark of Nokia Corporation. Nokia is not the manufacturer, importer, distributor or retailer. All the information published for these products at www.nokia.com/shop and MyNokia social media channels and/or at the licensees’ own web channels is provided by the licensees who are solely responsible for the accuracy of that information. Sorry, but it bugs me when people state that it is a "Nokia" product, it isn't. The fact is the new "Nokia" product is simply an attempt by Smartlabs to elevate their brand status by licensing the name for a slightly upgraded or improved new product. Good for them, at least they are doing something to get more recognition for their products. So this is a "newer" product line for them and obviously where they are putting in their development & marketing efforts and money. Maybe we should call the new products Nokisteon, Instekia or No-on to differentiate. ? <rant off> Edited August 17, 2021 by LFMc 1
Teken Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 It is a rant....a rant on repeat. In regards to announcements, even if they did issue an announcement about changes, no one would read anyway. Look at how many redundant questions are on this forum about stuff that would've been avoided had a person decided to read for 2min. Besides that, the manual states what the behavior is, so the information is there readily availableI’ll note you didn’t even try to address my statement of facts as it pertains to the MSII. Which is they once again released a piece of hardware and left it out to die. At some point a person of average intelligence would have taken the time to see how the customer liked / disliked the new hardware.Given it’s been what five years since the MSII came out how come they never addressed the way this device operates in FIRMWARE????I’ll also note you did not even attempt to address the bull sh^t surge protection Smartlabs has indicated on some hardware. So the material facts are once again what I am stating is a issue. How does that translate to the new guy / new hardware?!?Well I don’t know it’s not like he’s in command and control of the company and what direction it’s going. It’s not like he couldn’t take five minutes and open his fawken eyes and ears as to how to do better.What we do have is more than likely a rebranding hoping to distance themselves from past mistakes and failures. Yet history will repeat itself again - why??Same management, same people, same I don’t give a sh^t mentality.How can I say that without even holding a new piece of hardware?Once again history . . .Once again the same status quo of nothing . . .Once again no reaching out to UDI / whoever to help bolster the new line.So the great debate and discussion will rage on so long as Daffy Duck is sinking the ship
Michel Kohanim Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 Changing the subject! With many thanks to @Javi and @bmercier. You should also know that not only @Javi developed the app, he also made the video. He's a man of many many talents! With kind regards, Michel 4 1
Teken Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 Sorry, but it bugs me when people state that it is a "Nokia" product, it isn't. The fact is the new "Nokia" product is simply an attempt by Smartlabs to elevate their brand status by licensing the name for a slightly upgraded or improved new product. Good for them, at least they are doing something to get more recognition for their products. So this is a "newer" product line for them and obviously where they are putting in their development & marketing efforts and money. Maybe we should call the new products Nokisteon, Instekia or No-on to differentiate. It’s more akin to lipstick on a pig. It’s still a pig going oink oink. 1
LFMc Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: Don't know what it is but man, sign me up! That is one great sales video. ?
Michel Kohanim Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 @LFMc, I wish I could alas you are in San Diego. This is currently being used by PG&E in a pilot. Do you want to move? ? Or, you could convince SDG&E to do a pilot (that would be even better). The backend uses Green Button so you can also get your bills and rates and 24-hour old energy usage (every 15 minutes-1 hour). With kind regards, Michel 1
upstatemike Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 National Grid keeps trying to push energy savings products on their customers in upstate NY. Maybe you can get them to do a pilot? 1
lilyoyo1 Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 24 minutes ago, Teken said: I’ll note you didn’t even try to address my statement of facts as it pertains to the MSII. Which is they once again released a piece of hardware and left it out to die. At some point a person of average intelligence would have taken the time to see how the customer liked / disliked the new hardware. Given it’s been what five years since the MSII came out how come they never addressed the way this device operates in FIRMWARE???? I’ll also note you did not even attempt to address the bull sh^t surge protection Smartlabs has indicated on some hardware. So the material facts are once again what I am stating is a issue. How does that translate to the new guy / new hardware?!? Well I don’t know it’s not like he’s in command and control of the company and what direction it’s going. It’s not like he couldn’t take five minutes and open his fawken eyes and ears as to how to do better. What we do have is more than likely a rebranding hoping to distance themselves from past mistakes and failures. Yet history will repeat itself again - why?? Same management, same people, same I don’t give a sh^t mentality. How can I say that without even holding a new piece of hardware? Once again history . . . Once again the same status quo of nothing . . . Once again no reaching out to UDI / whoever to help bolster the new line. So the great debate and discussion will rage on so long as Daffy Duck is sinking the ship I haven't had any issues with my MSll's which are all beta units. Granted they were set up with the hub for time out etc. All work flawless for what I want. What issues people have with the isy, i can't speak on since I don't experience them myself. I do know there is capabilities built in that aren't supported which may play a part in things. With that said, insteon make their product to work with their product not any other system. While I'd love to see them develop stuff with the Isy in mind, their focus is on their stuff which it does as intended. I can't call their surge b.s it works as intended and they last much longer than previous generations. While it may not be up to your standards, it does work for the targeted customer in the price range that it's in. At this time, they do not want the new line with 3rd party systems. I've stated many many times already (as did Michel) that for now, they are moving in a different direction. Maybe in the future they may open things up but for now, their plan IS NOT your plan. They are under no obligation to allow support from anyone just like UDI is not obligated to support anything they don't want to support
asbril Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 2 hours ago, LFMc said: Maybe we should call the new products Nokisteon, Instekia or No-on to differentiate. ? From the country of Nokiastan ? 1 2
MrBill Posted August 17, 2021 Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, LFMc said: Maybe we should call the new products Nokisteon, Instekia or No-on to differentiate. I missed this line until @asbril quoted it.... I can see now they will likely end up getting nicknamed Ninsteon. (Nokisteon, while better in writing, is hard to pronounce so I doubt that will stick.) Edited August 17, 2021 by MrBill 1
LarryCRetired Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 I wonder how many free riders P&G will have. It is a great video. Just hope they have success.
Goose66 Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said: Changing the subject! With many thanks to @Javi and @bmercier. You should also know that not only @Javi developed the app, he also made the video. He's a man of many many talents! Very nice! That's better than the vast majority of ads I see on YouTube. Of course, I'm sure I will never see the ad out here in Georgia. Our electricity is embarrassingly cheap and schedule-wise un-tiered (thanks, plant Vogtle), and the only reason I schedule my Tesla charging is to avoid tripping a breaker if my pool pump(s) are running. ? Edited August 18, 2021 by Goose66
Michel Kohanim Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Goose66 said: I'm sure I will never see the ad out here in Georgia. With the massive push to electrify everything and get rid of nuclear, coal, gas (pretty much anything but solar, storage, wind) plants, "never" might come much sooner than you think. If you don't believe me, just take a look at the contents of the $1.2T infrastructure budget (and another $3.5T down the road). Disclaimer: Please do not take these comments as political, religious, scorched-earth, we-are-all-going-to-die statements. With kind regards, Michel 1 1 1
upstatemike Posted August 19, 2021 Posted August 19, 2021 I'm sure this has been asked but I don't remember what the answer was. If Smarthome does not resume availability of the PLM any time soon is it possible to simply adapt the ISY to use the Insteon Hub as an interface? I know Homeseer has a plugin that does this so I assme there are no technical issues to going that route?
MrBill Posted August 19, 2021 Posted August 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, upstatemike said: I'm sure this has been asked but I don't remember what the answer was. If Smarthome does not resume availability of the PLM any time soon is it possible to simply adapt the ISY to use the Insteon Hub as an interface? I know Homeseer has a plugin that does this so I assme there are no technical issues to going that route? Someone could perhaps develop a nodeserver that uses the pyInsteon library. Which can utilize either modem (S or U), the USB stick or 2 ethernet hubs as the PLM. Quote This is a Python package to interface with an Insteon Modem. It has been tested to work with most USB or RS-232 serial based devices such as the 2413U, 2412S, 2448A7 and Hub models 2242 and 2245. Other models have not been tested but the underlying protocol has not changed much over time so it would not be surprising if it worked with a number of other models. If you find success with something, please let us know. This pyinsteon package was created primarily to support an INSTEON platform for the Home Assistant automation platform but it is structured to be general-purpose and should be usable for other applications as well. It will be interesting to see how long it takes this project to incorporate the Ninsteon (Nokia Insteon) Hub when it is released. 2
lilyoyo1 Posted August 19, 2021 Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, MrBill said: It will be interesting to see how long it takes this project to incorporate the Ninsteon (Nokia Insteon) Hub when it is released. Though not as small as the new PLM would be, I'd rather the new hub be used over the hub. It's about half the size of it
MrBill Posted August 19, 2021 Posted August 19, 2021 17 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Though not as small as the new PLM would be, I'd rather the new hub be used over the hub. It's about half the size of it You're the cryptic detail man! Size matters, but everything gets smaller as technology moves forward.
lilyoyo1 Posted August 19, 2021 Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MrBill said: You're the cryptic detail man! Size matters, but everything gets smaller as technology moves forward. I'll send you a picture this evening. I hate looking at stuff i don't physically have to use so the smaller it is, the easier to hide Edited August 19, 2021 by lilyoyo1
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