lilyoyo1 Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, apostolakisl said: I couldn't agree more. This is one of the things that I thought, yeah, a company that actually is going to use manufacturing best practices. But . . it looks not to be. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Nokia will say, hey wait, you can't use that crap and put our name on it. Here, use our production facilities. Maybe? How can it look like something when you've never seen, felt, touched, or used it in life? It's crazy that people are downing a product that hasn't been released or used. While Teken has his reservationsat least he is willing to hold off on passing judgement until he gets his hands on one.
Michel Kohanim Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 Lovely discussions (4 pages since yesterday) ... I am thinking we can monetize this topic by selling ad space to both INSTEON and Nokia. I doubt they get this much traffic/attention even if they published a newsletter (ok, a little exaggeration here). We can then share the profits. And, by the way, if NGP wants to invest in UD, I would definitely not refuse! With kind regards, Michel 1 2
DAlter01 Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 1 minute ago, apostolakisl said: I couldn't agree more. This is one of the things that I thought, yeah, a company that actually is going to use manufacturing best practices. But . . it looks not to be. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Nokia will say, hey wait, you can't use that crap and put our name on it. Here, use our production facilities. Maybe? Based on what I have seen of the exterior of the devices, Smartlabs has kicked it up a notch. The attention to detail on the aesthetic design is to be applauded. And, yes, it would be foolish for Nokia to allow Smartlabs to put their good name on a piece of junk hardware. Being they are a $22B/year company, I suspect they have the sophistication in their practices to have enough control over the product in their partnerships to keep their name from being affiliated with switches that last 18 months. Others seem to disagree on the good name of Nokia but I suspect that when first reports start coming in we will find that the feel and function has improved from Insteon. As Teken has said, they better impove the insides, and I doubt the left that aspect of the redesign out of the mix. One has to understand where Insteon came from. This was a small operation trying to do things on the cheap and developed a pretty decent product 20 years ago. The new product will likely be a ground up redesign using the prior technology but not the prior circuit boards/parts/designs. Practices/techniques have changed a lot in the 20 years since the old Insteon devices were developed and it would be foolish for Smartlabs to do a relaunch of this new equipment by just putting a new pretty face on 20 year old designs that have a few shortcomings. Would Nokia even participate in an endevour like that? In my opinion, not a chance. I think we will find out in a month or two. 1
DAlter01 Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: Lovely discussions (4 pages since yesterday) ... I am thinking we can monetize this topic by selling add space to both INSTEON and Nokia. I doubt they get this much traffic/attention even if they published a newsletter (ok, a little exaggeration here). We can then share the profits. And, by the way, if NGP wants to invest in UD, I would definitely not refuse! With kind regards, Michel Michel, you would allow investment by that tarnished Nokia company even though they seem to be a failing company heading in the wrong direction, etc, etc., etc.? Kidding of course. Edited September 9, 2021 by DAlter01 2
larryllix Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) OK. Now we will have to wait until we see a Nokia serial PLM, then re-evaluate our stance. Edited September 9, 2021 by larryllix
Michel Kohanim Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 Just now, DAlter01 said: Michel, you would allow investment by that tarnished Nokia company even though they seem to be a failing company heading in the wrong direction, etc, etc., etc.? First, apologies for the spelling mistake (add vs. ad). To @apostolakisl's dismay, yes, of course! With kind regards, Michel 1
asbril Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, DAlter01 said: Based on what I have seen of the exterior of the devices, Smartlabs has kicked it up a notch. The attention to detail on the aesthetic design is to be applauded. And, yes, it would be foolish for Nokia to allow Smartlabs to put their good name on a piece of junk hardware. Being they are a $22B/year company, I suspect they have the sophistication in their practices to have enough control over the product in their partnerships to keep their name from being affiliated with switches that last 18 months. Others seem to disagree on the good name of Nokia but I suspect that when first reports start coming in we will find that the feel and function has improved from Insteon. As Teken has said, they better impove the insides, and I doubt the left that aspect of the redesign out of the mix. One has to understand where Insteon came from. This was a small operation trying to do things on the cheap and developed a pretty decent product 20 years ago. The new product will likely be a ground up redesign using the prior technology but not the prior circuit boards/parts/designs. Practices/techniques have changed a lot in the 20 years since the old Insteon devices were developed and it would be foolish for Smartlabs to do a relaunch of this new equipment by just putting a new pretty face on 20 year old designs that have a few shortcomings. Would Nokia even participate in an endevour like that? In my opinion, not a chance. I think we will find out in a month or two. I just looked up the specific Nokia website and, only based on that, I'd think that it is magistral move for Insteon. Nokia may no longer be the cellphone brand that is once was, but it is still a well recognized name around the globe....... and for sure a better name recognition than Insteon, Smartlabs or Smart Home. I dropped Insteon some 7 years ago and switched entirely to Zwave, having lost confidence in Insteon after a failed PLM. I also observed the limited range of Insteon devices and read the mostly negative comments here on Smartlab's service and customer communication (other than with @lilyoyo1 whom seems to have a privileged contact with Smartlabs). Other than being acquired by Apple, Google or Facebook, I think that Smartlabs made a smart move by linking itself to Nokia. It may be a make or break move, but as I was convinced that Insteon had no future, this move may save Insteon from extinction. Edited September 9, 2021 by asbril 3
apostolakisl Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said: How can it look like something when you've never seen, felt, touched, or used it in life? It's crazy that people are downing a product that hasn't been released or used. While Teken has his reservationsat least he is willing to hold off on passing judgement until he gets his hands on one. Dude, I said just that, I don't know and I even gave a happy face maybe, it isn't like me to do happy faces. Maybe, perhaps you actually know. I suspect you took them apart. Maybe the boards are complete redesign with quality parts and that was all part of the deal with Nokia. But when I read the Nokia website that all but said, these things aren't ours, talk to SmartLabs, my expectations dropped. Maybe Nokia invested in SmartLabs and is an owner now. I don't know, but again, what the website said. It also doesn't really make sense for Nokia to be an owner but then distance themselves like they did on the website. 1
apostolakisl Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said: First, apologies for the spelling mistake (add vs. ad). To @apostolakisl's dismay, yes, of course! With kind regards, Michel To which dismay do you refer? I have a lot of them! If Nokia wants to invest in UD, well, it just depends on the strings they attach.
larryllix Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) Oh look a report from SmartLabs (sane?) person that agrees with the boss opinion here! ...and a real person's name too There is hope yet! Maybe a few more requests will get SH to order some chips. OR SH finally got their story they are peddling straight? j/k!! Quote Update for Case 11524xx - "Product Availability" Hi Larry, Thank you for contacting Smarthome Support. Our apologies for the inconvenience caused. We understand that you would like to know about the availability of our products, we would be happy to assist you further! Unfortunately, we are sorry to inform you that the Insteon PLM (Item # 2413S) is out of stock (backorder) due to component shortages, and currently, we do not have an ETA on when the Insteon PLM (Item # 2413S) will be back in stock, but we are hoping it will be soon. No, the Insteon serial PLM will not be manufactured, with the Nokia brand name on it. Again we apologize for the inconvenience caused. Feel Free to write to us for any further assistance. Regards, Martin Brown Edited September 9, 2021 by larryllix
upstatemike Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, DAlter01 said: Would Nokia even participate in an endevour like that? In my opinion, not a chance. I think we will find out in a month or two. Should be less than a month now if they are going to meet their stated rollout date (as you would expect any "not discontinued" company to do), 1
lilyoyo1 Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, larryllix said: Oh look a report from SmartLabs (sane?) person that agrees with the boss opinion here! ...and a real person's name too There is hope yet! Maybe a few more requests will get SH to order some chips. OR SH finally got their story they are peddling straight? j/k!! Funny, you were just crying about personal attacks and avoiding my question but come back with more. As I asked earlier, what have I stated that has been proven false. Just yesterday you said it was disco'd but now have a different response. There's enough people here who can vouch for what I've said about stuff. Can you say the same? Edited September 9, 2021 by lilyoyo1
upstatemike Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, larryllix said: No, the Insteon serial PLM will not be manufactured, with the Nokia brand name on it Or any other brand name on it until they redesign around the obsolete chip. An FCC filing is no guarantee it will ever be submitted to manufacturing. 1
larryllix Posted September 9, 2021 Posted September 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, upstatemike said: Or any other brand name on it until they redesign around the obsolete chip. An FCC filing is no guarantee it will ever be submitted to manufacturing. True, but I think they have good intentions (up front anyway). Trouble is in another year or so they may change their minds once most people leave the Insteon family or switch to the USB PLM. With all the shilling and BS here, it becomes very hard to trust the company anymore. SH doesn't have a good track record for supporting their customers with... well...anything. I won't deal with them anymore after my last order containing three defective products they shipped me, after a month of shipping delay while others all got free shipping. Then the shipping to get any warranty would cost me more than the products were worth.
upstatemike Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 2 hours ago, larryllix said: True, but I think they have good intentions... I think there is a road going someplace that is paved with those. 4
asbril Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, apostolakisl said: But the whole point is Nokia name recognition promoting the HA products for Smartlabs. Publicly, Nokia is only two things, 1) I don't know what they do, or 2) cell phones. They don't have their name on any other publicly known thing. Perhaps in Europe, but based on shrinking gross, no one thinks a lot of whatever the other stuff is either. You are right, but Nokia may be the best brand that they could find and I still think that, from Smartlabs point of view, this is a good move for them. I am not sure though that it is a good move for Nokia. Yesterday I read about a new controller that integrates Apple Home Kit with Zwave and Zigbee. We are only at the beginning of home automation......... Edited September 10, 2021 by asbril 1
upstatemike Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 1 hour ago, asbril said: Yesterday I read about a new controller that integrates Apple Home Kit with Zwave and Zigbee. We are only at the beginning of home automation......... I Thinka heard something about that.
apostolakisl Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 2 hours ago, asbril said: You are right, but Nokia may be the best brand that they could find and I still think that, from Smartlabs point of view, this is a good move for them. I am not sure though that it is a good move for Nokia. Yesterday I read about a new controller that integrates Apple Home Kit with Zwave and Zigbee. We are only at the beginning of home automation......... Kind of like Radio Shack and Sprint? 1
asbril Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 1 hour ago, apostolakisl said: Kind of like Radio Shack and Sprint? You are a tough cookie.... 1
MrBill Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 It is what it is. It came about because the current CEO of Smartlabs was the CEO of a different startup that got acquired by Nokia. 3 years later he left Nokia and went to work for Richmond Capital Partners and became the CEO of it's new acquisition, Smartlabs. When he wanted to market the Insteon product under a new and different name he had the contacts to make that happen. The rest is history. Whether its a good deal or bad deal for either or both sides remains to be seen. But it's a done deal and we can't armchair QB the game. 1
asbril Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, MrBill said: we can't armchair QB the game But it's fun....except maybe when a few here take the game too serious. 1 1
larryllix Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 4 hours ago, asbril said: You are right, but Nokia may be the best brand that they could find and I still think that, from Smartlabs point of view, this is a good move for them. I am not sure though that it is a good move for Nokia. Yesterday I read about a new controller that integrates Apple Home Kit with Zwave and Zigbee. We are only at the beginning of home automation......... I have heard a lot of good things about ZigBee over the years. It is the protocol of choice by a lot of serious industries (medical, industrial, utility metering) and always seem to have good reports about it. However is is a low level protocol and everybody did it differently, making none of them compatible with each other.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.15.4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbeehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbee Now I am seeing (see wikipedia article) that a board has created higher level protocol standards, and it may make it rise to the top for HA, eventually. Very low power and good for battery devices. Some companies (amazon to start) are already including support for ZigBee in their mesh router systems. That may be a game changer, also.https://www.amazon.ca/Eero-Pro-6-Router/dp/B0866YGQ5D/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=router+with+zigbee&qid=1631300569&sr=8-5 1
asbril Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, larryllix said: I have heard a lot of good things about ZigBee over the years. It is the protocol of choice by a lot of serious industries (medical, industrial, utility metering) and always seem to have good reports about it. However is is a low level protocol and everybody did it differently, making none of them compatible with each other.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.15.4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbeehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbee Now I am seeing (see wikipedia article) that a board has created higher level protocol standards, and it may make it rise to the top for HA, eventually. Very low power and good for battery devices. Some companies (amazon to start) are already including support for ZigBee in their mesh router systems. That may be a game changer, also.https://www.amazon.ca/Eero-Pro-6-Router/dp/B0866YGQ5D/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=router+with+zigbee&qid=1631300569&sr=8-5 Would Polisy be able to have both Zwave and Zigbee (unlike ISY) ?
larryllix Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, asbril said: Would Polisy be able to have both Zwave and Zigbee (unlike ISY) ? I would imagine it would be able to. It would take a USB dongle or Ethernet bridge of some kind. I haven't done any research on this but the amazon router system sounds like it may do the job. NRs may have to be sent to control things, unless somebody writes a NS, or UDI installed direct pseudo controls to do the same. Not likely that would happen with NSes coming at us from every direction. From what I can tell, at this point it is using the same 2.4GHz WiFi band but I would think it could be adapted to 802.11ax technology (Wifi6) or even WiFi6E (newer 69GHz WiFi band coming out). OTOH that would be a waste as high speed data isn't required for HA. Most mobile phones built in the last two years support WiFi6 / 802.11ax technology so the slower / older WiFi could be left for HA. I always figured 5G will become the standard in homes, to replace current WiFi but this 802.11ax technology is working about the same, from what I have read. Even my 2.4GHz WiFi is connecting at 1200Mbps on many devices. With WiFi6 it can go to 11,000 Mbps. Penetration inside my home seems much better than WiFi5, which seems router companies are starting to dump on some new systems. Edited September 10, 2021 by larryllix 1
apostolakisl Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 58 minutes ago, MrBill said: It is what it is. It came about because the current CEO of Smartlabs was the CEO of a different startup that got acquired by Nokia. 3 years later he left Nokia and went to work for Richmond Capital Partners and became the CEO of it's new acquisition, Smartlabs. When he wanted to market the Insteon product under a new and different name he had the contacts to make that happen. The rest is history. Whether its a good deal or bad deal for either or both sides remains to be seen. But it's a done deal and we can't armchair QB the game. This explains a lot. 2
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