madmartian Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 I would like to setup a z-wave mailbox alert. Problem is I have a locking mailbox with a slot - thus a tilt sensor on the door won't work. Any suggestions for how to detect mail in the mailbox without using a tilt sensor? IR beam interruption would work - if such a Z-wave device existed.
Mecheng70 Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 can you install a hinged flap with the device mounted to it? when the mail hits it it then alerts. Could buy a cheap hinge and VHB it to the top near the opening so that the mail would "hit" it?
Mecheng70 Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 One issue that you may have is that if the mailbox is metal, the zwave signal may not be strong enough.
madmartian Posted December 11, 2020 Author Posted December 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, AnthemAVM said: What about a motion sensor? Which motion sensors would work for something that does not generate heat (mail) and is inside a metal container? And can handle the heat of summer inside a metal box?
keepersg Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 (edited) What I have done with this is to install a hardwired contact sensor that detects the mail box flap opening. The magnet is on the flap and the sensor is mounted inside the mailbox. Wire from the sensor runs out the back through a sealed hole to connect with a Honeywell 5816OD wireless sensor that has connections for an external contact sensor. This transmits a signal to my ElK M1G which is then read by my ISY. I get an email whenever the mailbox is opened. At night after 10 PM if anyone opens that flap, the outside lights go on, strobes flash and the outside siren goes off. You could use the Everspring Z-Wave SM103 which also has external contact connections to do the same thing with a Z-wave system. You would need to waterproof it. The Honeywell device is designed for outdoor installation. Anything wireless will have to be installed outside the mailbox. Rereading your initial post, your mailbox may not have a flap closure over the slot. Another solution I considered is to use a membrane switch in the mailbox. I experimented with one from adaptivision.com that is very sensitive and properly installed would be able to detect the weight of a couple of letters. Same kind of installation otherwise. Run wires from the membrane switch to a transmitter outside the box. Edited December 12, 2020 by keepersg Update
madmartian Posted December 12, 2020 Author Posted December 12, 2020 8 hours ago, keepersg said: Rereading your initial post, your mailbox may not have a flap closure over the slot. Another solution I considered is to use a membrane switch in the mailbox. I experimented with one from adaptivision.com that is very sensitive and properly installed would be able to detect the weight of a couple of letters. Same kind of installation otherwise. Run wires from the membrane switch to a transmitter outside the box. Correct, no flap to mount a switch on. The membrane switch sounds like it could work, but the website you linked to - adaptivision.com - does not exist. Is there a typo?
keepersg Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 Sorry, yes the correct url is adaptivation.com The product is called a Pal Pad. They come in different sizes and sensitivities. The pad by itself could detect a stack of mail. I constructed a weighted panel supported on four corners with small tubing that slides on screws and a center point projection that contacts the pad to make it sensitive enough to detect a couple of letters. I suppose you could do the same kind of thing with a momentary switch under a panel cheaper. I settled on monitoring the flap since I had that option.
larryllix Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 I just installed a CAO Tag on the inside of the mailbox front flap, and it only ever misses if the mailman is exceedingly quick with the door, and doesn't hold the door open for more than about 1 second. That hasn't ever happened in about 4 weeks of usage now, but I can make it miss if I try hard. I don't think most Zwave devices would have the distance range on my mailbox as it is about 30 feet from the front of my house and the nearest Zwave device would be inside the house on the other side of my garage. CAO wireless tags can be detected from about 1.5km away in my vehicle glove box.
keepersg Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, larryllix said: I just installed a CAO Tag on the inside of the mailbox front flap, and it only ever misses if the mailman is exceedingly quick with the door, and doesn't hold the door open for more than about 1 second. That hasn't ever happened in about 4 weeks of usage now, but I can make it miss if I try hard. I don't think most Zwave devices would have the distance range on my mailbox as it is about 30 feet from the front of my house and the nearest Zwave device would be inside the house on the other side of my garage. CAO wireless tags can be detected from about 1.5km away in my vehicle glove box. These are a nice product and do work inside my freezers but the range of the transmission is much shorter. They warn about condensation ruining the electronics if you take them out of the freezer to change the batteries without drying them off with a hair dryer so I wonder how long they would last outside. Battery on one of them lasted about 9 months before needing replacement just recently and the other one will need to be replaced soon. In any case, the OP's mailbox doesn't have a flap so these wouldn't work for him. My mailbox is about 100 feet away from the house. I might try putting one of the CAO Tags on the flap just to see how it compares with the current set up. Edited December 13, 2020 by keepersg
larryllix Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, keepersg said: These are a nice product and do work inside my freezers but the range of the transmission is much shorter. They warn about condensation ruining the electronics if you take them out of the freezer to change the batteries without drying them off with a hair dryer so I wonder how long they would last outside. Battery on one of them lasted about 9 months before needing replacement just recently and the other one will need to be replaced soon. In any case, the OP's mailbox doesn't have a flap so these wouldn't work for him. My mailbox is about 100 feet away from the house. I might try putting one of the CAO Tags on the flap just to see how it compares with the current set up. Something has to move or the box would be open all the time. My mailbox is plastic. My Tags have been outside for years without any problem, but they have been sheltered under the soffits of my house. If the mailbox is left open the Tag is exposed to weather so we will see with that one. The Tags do complain when they see humidity over about 99% RH, which happens all the time while raining here. Yes, the metal enclosure does shorten the range. I was surprised my vehicle one can be detected from over 1 km. The vehicle is metal but not tightly enclosed like the one in my fridge. I had a Tag on my garage door but found it unreliable mounted against a metal garage door so switched it to an I/OLinc for better reliability. Edited December 13, 2020 by larryllix
tmorse305 Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 On 12/13/2020 at 12:45 AM, larryllix said: CAO wireless tags can be detected from about 1.5km away in my vehicle glove box. @larryllix, how do you have your tags configured to get such incredible range? I can't get the tag at my mailbox to work reliably at ~100ft! The tag manager is up against the front wall of my house, it can't get any closer to the mailbox and still be inside. It's about 8' off the floor. The mailbox tag is on the bottom of a metal box, spaced about an inch off on a wooden block. I use an accelerometer tag so that it triggers from the vibration of the door opening and closing. The tag runs at 100% power so it quickly kills the battery. It didn't use to do that so I thought the tag might be bad. I tried others but the result is the same, 100% power. I have the tag manager mode set for medium, I've calibrated the freq offset at temperature. The tag wireless setting is set to low power mode. I'm beginning to wonder if there is an issue with the radio in the tag manager. Any advice is appreciated, thanks.
smokegrub Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 I have my tag manager in a window. You may want to try that.
tmorse305 Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, smokegrub said: I have my tag manager in a window. You may want to try that. @smokegrub, It's actually worse in the window because of the coating on the glass. The signal drops 14dBm when I move the tag manager from outside to inside the glass! I just moved the tag manager outside temporarily to see what happens. It is direct line of sight to the mailbox, I can see the tag, it is less than 100 feet. I'm not sure how quickly the tags drops the power down so I'll let it sit for a while. Right now it's still at 100% power after about 5 minutes and multiple manual updates. When I bring the tag into the same room as the manager the power drops to 1% as you would expect. Update: Solved. It is a tag problem specifically all of my accelerometer tags. I just tried a regular motion tag and it works fine. Bummer because they discontinued the accelerometer tag. I sent all of my tags back recently for a firmware update. I wonder if in that process something got messed up. Edited February 12, 2021 by tmorse305 1
mwester Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 45 minutes ago, tmorse305 said: ... It's actually worse in the window because of the coating on the glass. The signal drops 14dBm when I move the tag manager from outside to inside the glass!... Yep - modern high-efficiency windows use a metallic coating to reflect UV and reduce radiant energy transmission. It has the side effect of reducing RF transmission as well! We're in the "shadow" of the largest cellular carrier's tower here -- and as we built our house it became somewhat entertaining to see a contractor answer his cell phone, struggle to hear the caller, and dash off to stand in front of the window assuming they'd get better reception... only to have the call drop entirely as they got in front of the glass! I've strategically placed my ISY in the walk-out basement so that the signal from the devices in the garage doesn't have to go through windows. I'm going to have to move my tag manager in the spring, when I put a couple of the tags out on the patio -- the patio doors are pretty effective at blocking it right now. 3
larryllix Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 I have one tag that works well on my mailbox and one that doesn't work well inside my fridge 15 feet from the Tag manager. They are different feature options but I do not know which actual device number they are now. CAO have stopped offering some and introduced others now. I do know that the magnetic earth field detection never worked well. MY mailbox is all synthetic and no metal. I don't use the Tag NS but just insert the URL to turn a variable On and Off with the Door Open and Closed sensing. Then I turned the routine update down to every 30 minutes to save battery life. That is only used for getting the effective temperature from the mailbox. It is a combination or temperature, solar, and wind factors and gives a good "real-feel" temperature report. The 1.5 km is not my mailbox tag but another unit inside my vehicle glove compartment. The Tag manager has to go through R40 walls and full 4" brick thicknesses. My mailbox and Tag Manager are at opposite ends of the home from each other. 1
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