1 minute ago, simplextech said:

This rational never made sense to me.  No matter the protocol a "controller" is required.  Whether it's a PLM or Z-Wave board, USB stick or external bridge some controller to interface with the protocol is required.

I understand your point, but it is just my personal experience with the limited longevity of PLM's. Unless I'd go entirely Insteon (which is doubtful with my more than 80 Zwave devices), it would mean adding another controller.

I am well aware of the great satisfaction and attachment that many here feel about Insteon, and I also understand that for some aspects Insteon may be the better technology. But right now I stick to my setup, but respect all of you and your choices.

4 minutes ago, asbril said:

my personal experience with the limited longevity of PLM's.

This I understand.  That piece of information gets left out.  It's not the reliance on a PLM it's the poor history of longevity of the PLM.

3 minutes ago, asbril said:

I understand your point, but it is just my personal experience with the limited longevity of PLM's. Unless I'd go entirely Insteon (which is doubtful with my more than 80 Zwave devices), it would mean adding another controller.

I am well aware of the great satisfaction and attachment that many here feel about Insteon, and I also understand that for some aspects Insteon may be the better technology. But right now I stick to my setup, but respect all of you and your choices.

Of course you are both right.  This reminds my of the whole VHS vs Beta debate/war. You need a player for both standards. Beta was clearly better from a technical point of view, like Insteon.  Problem was that Beta, like Insteon, was a closed environment controlled by a single manufacturer, in this case Sony. Insteon could have set the standard if they had opened it up from the beginning. Now sheer volumes of Z-wave devices drive costs down as do increasing levels of integration in the associated chip set.

Maybe folks are right that Smartlabs is on death march with Insteon.  Problem is I just put over 100 new switches in a new home and I my system to work for at least a few years until both Insteon and Zwave are history and we've moved on to Blu-Ray vs HD DVD.

Not aimed at anyone... but In totality, this thread could be used as basis for a HA Saturday Night live script. [emoji1787]

Assuming SmartHome does remain in business, I far prefer the dual mesh of Insteon for lighting by far. It was the only reasonable choice when moved from X10 11ish years ago. The scenes and keypadlincs are icing on that cake. I’ve helped friends with far more expensive setups and they had nothing on a well developed Insteon dual mesh.

UD is by far one of the top tier firms I’ve ever dealt with and it starts at top with Michel. The ISY made Insteon possible for large installations. It served as the foundation and was recommended by SH sales when I started with my then new house under construction. It’s overall capability is fantastic and yes i support the need to abstract out all protocols and have them talk to a core database with Polisy.

One example I always mention... Can you imagine replacing a switch in a sophisticated 10 device Insteon scene without it?

I have whole house surge protector and have only had a handful of device failures. I have replaced many single band with dual band devices after 50 % off sales. Still got big box of working single band devices. Keypadlincs and iolincs were issues and a few dimmers. At some point electronic updates made them reliable. I replaced one keypadlinc 4 or 5 times in two years. Had 1 plm go bad.

I’ve got a large stash of all Insteon devices from last 50% sale. Spare ISY and two spare plms plus one that I rebuilt.

If you want to use any of these technologies, I always suggest having many spares on hand but that’s just me.

Peace out!

2 minutes ago, asbril said:

I understand your point, but it is just my personal experience with the limited longevity of PLM's. Unless I'd go entirely Insteon (which is doubtful with my more than 80 Zwave devices), it would mean adding another controller.

I am well aware of the great satisfaction and attachment that many here feel about Insteon, and I also understand that for some aspects Insteon may be the better technology. But right now I stick to my setup, but respect all of you and your choices.

I don't think it is really fair to call the PLM a "controller", it is a modem.  As mentioned, everything has these modems, be it a z-wave board, PLM, or a built in wifi board.  You could argue that a wifi board isn't a modem, but there are issues with that as well.  Most wifi starts running into issues with more than 100 clients and putting in the kind of wifi that can deal with huge numbers exits the consumer market. 

The PLM's have had failure issues, though the most recent one (fingers crossed) seems to be holding up just fine (as are the ones people have re-capped).  Z-wave has also had its issue in that I have been forced to replace my z-wave board, not as a result of failure but rather obsolescence.   I don't really see that happening with the Insteon protocol.  

The death of Insteon has been a topic for quite a number of years.  It hasn't happened and I suspect that the current discussion is just one more in this long line.  We shall see.  I also think Insteon is unlikely to ever dominate the market.  The people running it don't seem to have the kind of marketing skills that are needed.  I mean look at what Nest did . . . Insteon just didn't know how to jazz it up for the mass market.  Seriously, how something as boring as a thermostat came to be such a vogue thing speaks volumes to the marketing people.

@larryllix and @asbril, thank you very much for your vote of confidence. Alas, I must pass. In this day and age where being hacked is no longer a matter of _if_ but a matter of _when_, I am hoping that their new line includes security enhancements. 

With kind regards,
Michel

55 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@larryllix and @asbril, thank you very much for your vote of confidence. Alas, I must pass. In this day and age where being hacked is no longer a matter of _if_ but a matter of _when_, I am hoping that their new line includes security enhancements. 

With kind regards,
Michel

In the field hope isn't a tactic. And we all know - Hope Don't Float . . . ?

2 hours ago, hart2hart said:

... Assuming SmartHome does remain in business, I far prefer the dual mesh of Insteon for lighting by far. It was the only reasonable choice when moved from X10 11ish years ago. The scenes and keypadlincs are icing on that cake. I’ve helped friends with far more expensive setups and they had nothing on a well developed Insteon dual mesh.

UD is by far one of the top tier firms I’ve ever dealt with and it starts at top with Michel. The ISY made Insteon possible for large installations. It served as the foundation and was recommended by SH sales when I started with my then new house under construction. It’s overall capability is fantastic and yes i support the need to abstract out all protocols and have them talk to a core database with Polisy. ...

hart2hart's experience and comments very well match my own, starting with the transition from X 10 to the SH introduction to ISY.  In the early years with Insteon, I experienced product failures with a number of their modules, including the PLM.  Product quality has definitely improved, and it has been maybe 5 years since I have experienced any Insteon module failures with one exception which was replaced under warranty.

I bought my first PLM in 2014. After thinking it would become a problem I have bought two more PLMs since.

After testing them, I removed each one and replaced my original PLM and it still runs just fine.

While this article is generally off-topic, it makes the point made by @lilyoyo1on the shortage of chips.

Suez Canal Is Blocked by Container Ship Causing Huge Traffic Jam - WSJ.pdf

20 minutes ago, asbril said:

While this article is generally off-topic, it makes the point made by @lilyoyo1on the shortage of chips.

High level discussion in first fist link, more in depth in second.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/320247-chip-demand-outstrips-supply-by-30-percent-shortages-could-last-a-year

https://semiengineering.com/200mm-demand-surges/

On 3/24/2021 at 7:39 AM, asbril said:

While this article is generally off-topic, it makes the point made by @lilyoyo1on the shortage of chips.

Suez Canal Is Blocked by Container Ship Causing Huge Traffic Jam - WSJ.pdf 401.3 kB · 5 downloads

and another article ("Morning Brew")  confirming @lilyoyo1's point on chip shortage :

"...

We’ve faced a number of shortages over the past year—toilet paper, GrapeNuts, joy. But one shortage continues to stand above the rest in its ability to damage the global economy: semiconductors. 

Senior execs from almost 20 companies are heading to the White House today to discuss the current chip shortage and ensure more supply chain chaos doesn’t break out in the future.

• The roster includes leaders of Ford, Intel, and Alphabet, highlighting how a tiny piece of technology is critical for the everyday operations of a wide range of industries. 

How did this start? 

As the world went into hibernation in spring 2020, manufacturers called up their chip suppliers and said, “Welp, looks like we won’t be needing much of your stuff in the near future.” 

But the economic crisis took a very different shape than originally projected, and demand, instead of dipping...spiked. People loaded up on electronics as they worked/studied/gamed at home. Flush with stimulus checks and wary of public transportation, Americans kept buying cars.

But because they dramatically lowered their chip orders, car manufacturers were stuck making jigsaw puzzles with a missing piece. 

• You can’t put 100% of the blame on Covid. That wild weather in Texas and other factory hiccups also knocked out chip production, compounding the problem. 

But it’s a big problem

The chip shortage has affected “virtually every major car company in recent months,” according to the WSJ, forcing automakers to halt production of their most popular cars. 

• Both GM and Ford said the shortage could knock profits by at least $2 billion. 
• Sony said the chip shortage is the reason why there are so few PS5s available.

.."

On 3/10/2021 at 8:43 AM, Teken said:

Michel,

Back in the day I recalled Steve Lee was a team member with UDI. He doesn’t post much so don’t know his current status. Given his many years at Smartlabs along with his direct knowledge of Insteon and connections with the same.

Is Steve Lee no longer a resource and conduit to Smartlabs?!?

Regardless, please do add my name to the list for Alpha / Beta trials with respect to Insteon / Energy Management within the Polyisy!

I spoke with Steve Lee several months ago, He left the company last year and no longer has an association with Smarthome/Smartlabs.

Edited April 17, 20214 yr by Techman

Thank you for the update on Steve Lee.

He had assisted me a few times and I valued his information. I will miss his assistance and knowledge.

15 minutes ago, Brian H said:

Thank you for the update on Steve Lee.

He had assisted me a few times and I valued his information. I will miss his assistance and knowledge.

It's sad to see the direction that Smarthome/Smartlabs has taken.  I had high hopes that the new owner, Robert Lilleness, would turn things around but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I assume that the trade issues with China, the chip shortage and the pandemic have taken a toll on the company.

The only other person I've spoken with over there is John Lockyer who is (or was) in charge of their product development. Its been a while since we last spoke. Are you familiar with him?

 

1 hour ago, Techman said:

John Lockyer

it seems that he left Insteon a year ago :   https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-lockyer-b1598517/

This appears to be Insteon's current management : https://www.insteon.com/leadership-bios

Edited April 18, 20214 yr by asbril

12 hours ago, Techman said:

It's sad to see the direction that Smarthome/Smartlabs has taken.  I had high hopes that the new owner, Robert Lilleness, would turn things around but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I assume that the trade issues with China, the chip shortage and the pandemic have taken a toll on the company.

The only other person I've spoken with over there is John Lockyer who is (or was) in charge of their product development. Its been a while since we last spoke. Are you familiar with him?

 

John was an advisor/project manager. Steve, most likely will be back. He's been back and forth 3 or 4 times over the years. 

15 hours ago, asbril said:

it seems that he left Insteon a year ago :   https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-lockyer-b1598517/

This appears to be Insteon's current management : https://www.insteon.com/leadership-bios

If these people exist, why don't they get anything done?  Rhetorical question.

7 hours ago, carealtor said:

If these people exist, why don't they get anything done?  Rhetorical question.

Because with that size of a business somebody has to answer email and sweep the floors. Rhetorical answer.

Good morning!

Where are we with the ISY to Polisy migration? Do we have a Z-wave solution yet? Custom Dongle vs, off the shelf?

Also, I read in a previous post in this thread that ELK support is already available as a Nodeserver. Can I move this easily from ISY to Polisy without too much trouble? Any how-to-move documents available?

Thanks

29 minutes ago, TriLife said:

Good morning!

Where are we with the ISY to Polisy migration? Do we have a Z-wave solution yet? Custom Dongle vs, off the shelf?

Also, I read in a previous post in this thread that ELK support is already available as a Nodeserver. Can I move this easily from ISY to Polisy without too much trouble? Any how-to-move documents available?

Thanks

The short answer is ISY to Polisy is not ready yet.  Alpha test stage.  No documentation available outside of the brief mentions in the forum over the past week.  They haven't announced what Z-wave interface will be used yet.

The Elk Node Server section of the forum would be a better place for questions about that node server.

I would like to vote for continued "network module" support in polisy. 

Don't want to depend on/be required to have node server to do some direct ip html command.

 

Thanks

I also would like the network module supported in the polisy, assuming that's possible.

Michel already stated that NRs would be supported, but not further advanced. When ISY moves over it should already/still contain the NR module.

@whyworkOnce ISY is inside the polisy, it may use http/s packets to communicate with polyglot but it will be all internal and not leave the box.