Don't want to open this can of worms but curious about the ISY part of the PolIsy

[Blackbird]

8 hours ago, larryllix said:

Who knows it Insteon actually has any documentation to share? Judging by the previous actions of the company it is a one man operation in somebody's garage and all the technology is inside somebody's head, with the greatest of intent to write it all down some day.

These devices are all manufactured and tested in China, and likely all the design, and misleading docs for US patent faking was done by the same Chinese workers that built them. A fancy building warehousing parts in California, can give the impression of an established  American company and bypass many taxation and political border blockades. Why would Insteon be any different than so many other products in the tech world these days?

OMG this made me laugh

[Ed Sybesma]

Based upon the increasing lack of available Insteon devices for sale, as well as the Insteon communications and other problems noted in the thread above, the question is whether Smart Labs is going to drop the Insteon product line entirely.  Has anyone talk to them about possibly buying out Insteon?  They certainly do not seem to want to pursue that line of business.

[larryllix]

7 minutes ago, Ed Sybesma said:

Based upon the increasing lack of available Insteon devices for sale, as well as the Insteon communications and other problems noted in the thread above, the question is whether Smart Labs is going to drop the Insteon product line entirely.  Has anyone talk to them about possibly buying out Insteon?  They certainly do not seem to want to pursue that line of business.

Michel for CEO!

Michel for CEO!

Michel for CEO!

Michel for CEO!

Michel for CEO!

[mango]

1 hour ago, Ed Sybesma said:

Based upon the increasing lack of available Insteon devices for sale, as well as the Insteon communications and other problems noted in the thread above, the question is whether Smart Labs is going to drop the Insteon product line entirely.  Has anyone talk to them about possibly buying out Insteon?  They certainly do not seem to want to pursue that line of business.

I'll buy some shares.

[asbril]

Just now, mango said:

I'll buy some shares.

Can I sell short ?

[mango]

I'm a total outsider and all I can see is Instion oblivion. I mean, who can't?

 

[gviliunas]

@larryllix Your post had me stop and think how much better and more reliable all of our systems would be had Michel also been CEO of Smartlabs / Smarthome...... Sometimes your the bug.... UDI-Smarthome could have been the BIG windshield... Okay, maybe I over-simplify. It's a thought.

 

In Vino Veritas

Edited March 20, 2021 by gviliunas

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, Ed Sybesma said:

Based upon the increasing lack of available Insteon devices for sale, as well as the Insteon communications and other problems noted in the thread above, the question is whether Smart Labs is going to drop the Insteon product line entirely.  Has anyone talk to them about possibly buying out Insteon?  They certainly do not seem to want to pursue that line of business.

The lack of available devices are due to chip shortages. It's the reason why auto mfg. are having issues, PS5 shortages, etc.

Even Samsung has announced they'll be having issues with makimg another flagship phone this year due to the shortage. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bgr.com/2021/03/17/galaxy-note-21-release-date-might-be-canceled/amp/

Insteon has always been tight lipped to their own detriment in many others eyes. Whether they say something or not is their choice. However, the fact that they have 6 brand new products currently showing in the fcc database (easily researched) as well as me ruined by other people on here is still ignored. Regardless of UDI and insteon's business issues, them coming out with 6 new devices does throw a wrench in the argument that they are going somewhere. 

Insteon has its own issues that they bring on themselves. With that said; it truly amazes me that with  so much information available to us, we still don't take a modicum of time to read and stay abreast of what's going on in the world- yet have so much to say about stuff based off assumptions

Edited March 20, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[mango]

5 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The lack of available devices are due to chip shortages

Perhaps a factor, but not the reason. Go back in time and you can plot the demise, prior to any global excuse.

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, mango said:

Perhaps a factor, but not the reason. Go back in time and you can plot the demise, prior to any global excuse.

There's been shortages of stuff all year for many things.....not just insteon. It's noticable because you're looking for insteon. If you start looking for specific devices from other companies and chart those for the past year, you'll see many more shortages has happened and are currently happening. 2 quick ones that come to mind are harmony remotes and lifx light strips. 

There are zwave 700 series devices that were slated for release last year that still hasn't been released. If your focus is only on 1 thing, you can see everything that can and does go wrong with them. However, when you have a multitude of different dealings, it does open you to the bigger picture of what's happening. 

[Ed Sybesma]

Thanks to several of you for your reference to chip shortages as a likely explanation.  I had read about it in the context of automobiles, computers, and the like, but failed to connect it to this issue.  Perhaps the problem is even more pervasive than reported in the articles I have seen.

[lilyoyo1]

8 minutes ago, Ed Sybesma said:

Thanks to several of you for your reference to chip shortages as a likely explanation.  I had read about it in the context of automobiles, computers, and the like, but failed to connect it to this issue.  Perhaps the problem is even more pervasive than reported in the articles I have seen.

Unfortunately it is. I beta test for a few companies and they've pushed back releases and have cancelled others outright due to availability of stuff. 

Alot of people fail to realize that almost anything electronic requires some type of chip to run in today's world. Whether a its a calculator, smart switch, refrigerator, or car...It's needed. 

We just consume so much and desire so much more. It's going to take time for them to catch back up

[Brian H]

Part shortages are becoming an issue for many companies.

My Nephew works for a company that makes all kinds of emergency vehicle devices. Like light bars and sirens. He said they are having a big problem with part shortages.

I too have seen the automotive industries. Running out of electronic parts and even furloughing  some workers.

[larryllix]

Over half the businesses in my small town have closed up, never to return now.

This factor could be an excuse for Insteon's actions, or a further indication they are folding up.

Edited March 23, 2021 by larryllix

[asbril]

8 hours ago, larryllix said:

Over half the businesses in my small town has closed up, never to return now.

This factor could be an excuse for Insteon's actions or an further indication they are folding up.

Maybe time for you and @lilyoyo1to team up and buy out  Insteon ? Then rebuild it with a new chip that includes Zwave ????

Edited March 23, 2021 by asbril

[larryllix]

57 minutes ago, asbril said:

Maybe time for you and @lilyoyo1to team up and buy out  Insteon ? Then rebuild it with a new chip that includes Zwave ????

My guess is they are to lazy to hire a sales team.
How many new managements and owners  have the company had now? Something wrong with the building.

Insteon already includes an RF protocol. They just need to decouple it from the grid frequency protocol. Send the RF first, and if it is more than 10 feet away, back it up with the powerline protocol.

[larryllix]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:27 PM, gviliunas said:

@larryllix Your post had me stop and think how much better and more reliable all of our systems would be had Michel also been CEO of Smartlabs / Smarthome...... Sometimes your the bug.... UDI-Smarthome could have been the BIG windshield... Okay, maybe I over-simplify. It's a thought.

 

In Vino Veritas

Think how much better the product would be,  designed by an HA guy that understands the needs and wants of HA.

             "end to end...."

Maybe Michel could buy it, backed by HA crowd sourced money? Make the eproms in the Insteon devices open source and let the crowd go wild with other styles of comms and compatibilities.

Edited March 23, 2021 by larryllix

[palayman]

On 3/19/2021 at 7:59 PM, Ed Sybesma said:

Based upon the increasing lack of available Insteon devices for sale, as well as the Insteon communications and other problems noted in the thread above, the question is whether Smart Labs is going to drop the Insteon product line entirely.  Has anyone talk to them about possibly buying out Insteon?  They certainly do not seem to want to pursue that line of business.

Not sure that the lack of devices is any indication that they are considering dropping Insteon.  Global supply of chips is low, especially specialty analog chips for the western markets, as manufacturing of them is being pulling out of China. Major players demand is further exacerbating supply for small players like Smart Labs. Even North American auto makers are having to reduce production due to chip shortages.

Buying out Insteon would probably not improve supply issues.

Paul

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

My guess is they are to lazy to hire a sales team.
How many new managements and owners  have the company had now? Something wrong with the building.

Insteon already includes an RF protocol. They just need to decouple it from the grid frequency protocol. Send the RF first, and if it is more than 10 feet away, back it up with the powerline protocol.

2. The original and now the new ownership group. Certain leadership in regards to sales and so forth really should be replaced

[lilyoyo1]

3 hours ago, asbril said:

Maybe time for you and @lilyoyo1to team up and buy out  Insteon ? Then rebuild it with a new chip that includes Zwave ????

If I had the money I'd definitely put an offer in to buy them. Can't say I'd include zwave inside insteon devices though. While I understand the desire, I don't see the benefits of it. Zwave is good but when it comes to lighting, insteon is better. To integrate a lesser technology means buying another chip, paying whatever associated fees needed to become certified, etc. Now instead of a 50 dollar switch (that people already complain about being to much) you have a 75 dollar device so they end up buying another zwave device that's cheaper. 

What I would do is refocus the hub to include more 3rd party devices that could be integrated; such as wifi locks, hue, ecobee thermostats, and other stuff that insteon doesn't have (or does a better job of). This way, those who do not want the capabilities of a full featured controller can have an all in 1 solution with insteon on a basic level. 

I'd also emphasize more and deeper partnerships with other controllers (obvious picks Isy, homeseer, etc). 

[asbril]

8 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Can't say I'd include zwave inside insteon devices though. While I understand the desire, I don't see the benefits of it

Over the years you have (almost?) convinced me that Insteon is a better technology than Zwave, but a combination of both would seem like a win-win. This being said, that interoperability is what ISY offers us.

What is happening now to Insteon, whether shortage of chips or bad management, is part of our debate on Insteon vs Zwave. If you have more than one manufacturer, there is a good chance that one of them either has a different chip supplier, or a larger inventory.  Reading what you all write about Insteon, I would believe that its future may depend on either a buy-out or a buy-in (cash and management infusion) from a more experienced operator. Maybe Smartlabs should go on Shark Tank........

Edited March 23, 2021 by asbril

[lilyoyo1]

30 minutes ago, asbril said:

Over the years you have (almost?) convinced me that Insteon is a better technology than Zwave, but a combination of both would seem like a win-win. This being said, that interoperability is what ISY offers us.

What is happening now to Insteon, whether shortage of chips or bad management, is part of our debate on Insteon vs Zwave. If you have more than one manufacturer, there is a good chance that one of them either has a different chip supplier, or a larger inventory.  Reading what you all write about Insteon, I would believe that its future may depend on either a buy-out or a buy-in (cash and management infusion) from a more experienced operator. Maybe Smartlabs should go on Shark Tank........

Maybe you'll become more convinced once they release their new stuff. 

A combination of both would be a win-win. No argument there. I'm just wondering how many would be willing to pay for it to justify that. 

Times like this , I lose my argument with you in regards to single source. At the same time though, I'd still only want 1 vender when it came to my light switches. I wouldn't want 3 or 4 different styles just to control my lights.

Their issue isn't cash. Money isnt making things easy for asking, sony, and others who are facing their own shortages. Insteon does need to replace some of the older guard though. There are certain people there who are holding them back greatly

[asbril]

11 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Maybe you'll become more convinced once they release their new stuff

The use of a PLM keeps me away from Insteon, though I am still considering it for motion sensors.

[lilyoyo1]

2 minutes ago, asbril said:

The use of a PLM keeps me away from Insteon, though I am still considering it for motion sensors.

You'll need a PLM then.... The new line becomes more attractive at that point

[simplextech]

8 minutes ago, asbril said:

The use of a PLM keeps me away from Insteon

This rational never made sense to me.  No matter the protocol a "controller" is required.  Whether it's a PLM or Z-Wave board, USB stick or external bridge some controller to interface with the protocol is required.