Don't want to open this can of worms but curious about the ISY part of the PolIsy

[Blackbird]

Has there been any progress or update to speak of when we will be able to use the Polisy as an ISY?

Thanks

[lilyoyo1]

40 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

Has there been any progress or update to speak of when we will be able to use the Polisy as an ISY?

Thanks

Per the usual- No!

Michel has said they have it running on Polisy but still working out the bugs

Edited March 9, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[Michel Kohanim]

@Blackbird,

It's really not a can. ISY is currently running on Polisy extremely well and very fast! As a matter of fact, as of right now, you can do pretty much whatever you did with ISY (to speed development, unfortunately, it's still through the Admin Console) such as programs, node servers, and even portal connectivity. 

What's not there:

1. Z-Wave: figuring out which dongle to use (ours or off the shelf) + need certification 
2. INSTEON: we are debating whether or not we want to support it at all
3. Modules:
-- ELK is migrated to a node server @Jimbo
-- Network module is no longer supported 
-- All climate modules are already supported as node servers

What we are working now:

1. Stress testing
2. UDX service to advertise as polisy.local (so that you don't have to look for IP)
3. Secure and encrypted storage of certificates and sensitive info using TPM 
4. Tighter integration with Polyglot

We should have the alpha package in a month or so. If you are interested to test, please do make sure you are subscribed to our Product News and Announcements.

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@Blackbird,

It's really not a can. ISY is currently running on Polisy extremely well and very fast! As a matter of fact, as of right now, you can do pretty much whatever you did with ISY (to speed development, unfortunately, it's still through the Admin Console) such as programs, node servers, and even portal connectivity. 

What's not there:

1. Z-Wave: figuring out which dongle to use (ours or off the shelf) + need certification 
2. INSTEON: we are debating whether or not we want to support it at all
3. Modules:
-- ELK is migrated to a node server @Jimbo
-- Network module is no longer supported 
-- All climate modules are already supported as node servers

What we are working now:

1. Stress testing
2. UDX service to advertise as polisy.local (so that you don't have to look for IP)
3. Secure and encrypted storage of certificates and sensitive info using TPM 
4. Tighter integration with Polyglot

We should have the alpha package in a month or so. If you are interested to test, please do make sure you are subscribed to our Product News and Announcements.

With kind regards,
Michel

Thanks Michel for keeping us informed. I look forward testing the alpha package.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@Blackbird,

It's really not a can. ISY is currently running on Polisy extremely well and very fast! As a matter of fact, as of right now, you can do pretty much whatever you did with ISY (to speed development, unfortunately, it's still through the Admin Console) such as programs, node servers, and even portal connectivity. 

What's not there:

1. Z-Wave: figuring out which dongle to use (ours or off the shelf) + need certification 
2. INSTEON: we are debating whether or not we want to support it at all
3. Modules:
-- ELK is migrated to a node server @Jimbo
-- Network module is no longer supported 
-- All climate modules are already supported as node servers

What we are working now:

1. Stress testing
2. UDX service to advertise as polisy.local (so that you don't have to look for IP)
3. Secure and encrypted storage of certificates and sensitive info using TPM 
4. Tighter integration with Polyglot

We should have the alpha package in a month or so. If you are interested to test, please do make sure you are subscribed to our Product News and Announcements.

With kind regards,
Michel

I know it's a personal thing but I'm all for you continuing insteon support. Especially with their newer devices coming out. 

Besides that, too many users are already entrenched with insteon to abandon. 

I'd be good with an off the shelf zwave dongle. Not only would it be cheaper than a purpose built solution initially, it would be easier, faster, and cheaper to upgrade each time a new version is released

[Michel Kohanim]

@lilyoyo1,

Thank you very much for the feedback. At the moment - and since we are still 100000% in the dark - the thought of having to relive even 0.00001% of all the reverse engineering, all the blames, and all the support calls we had to endure gives me the hibby jibbies. Let's all hope that INSTEON will shine a light at the end of this very dark tunnel. 

With kind regards,
Michel

[hart2hart]

@lilyoyo1,
Thank you very much for the feedback. At the moment - and since we are still 100000% in the dark - the thought of having to relive even 0.00001% of all the reverse engineering, all the blames, and all the support calls we had to endure gives me the hibby jibbies. Let's all hope that INSTEON will shine a light at the end of this very dark tunnel. 
With kind regards,
Michel

Same goes for us that adopted ISY for Insteon before zwave was even real. Please help us plan what our future will be be. God forbid but do we need to be looking for another HA platform? I’m suddenly very sick to my stomach.

[lilyoyo1]

29 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@lilyoyo1,

Thank you very much for the feedback. At the moment - and since we are still 100000% in the dark - the thought of having to relive even 0.00001% of all the reverse engineering, all the blames, and all the support calls we had to endure gives me the hibby jibbies. Let's all hope that INSTEON will shine a light at the end of this very dark tunnel. 

With kind regards,
Michel

I hope so too. I'm pushing for you

[palayman]

3 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

2. INSTEON: we are debating whether or not we want to support it at all

Wow. Glad I didn't buy one.

[carealtor]

@Michel Kohanim  Of course, your company, your choice, but I really hope you continue supporting Insteon.

[Michel Kohanim]

@lilyoyo1, thank you very much!

@carealtor, it's really not a choice as we have not been given one. There are no APIs, no specs, no information. The extent of our knowledge of anything INSTEON starts and ends with what we read on this forum.

With kind regards,
Michel

[apnar]

I recall in other threads that there has been mention of keeping the current ISY platform going in parallel for a significant amount of time even after it was running on the new platform. I’d think you’re still going to have to deal with INSTEON silliness for years anyway supporting the old platform and that with a common code base the incremental effort to also support INSTEON on the new would be very low while enabling the sale of many more new units to majority INSTEON existing users.

As an owner of both, I for one would love to reduce the number of boxes running

[MrBill]

3 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

2. INSTEON: we are debating whether or not we want to support it at all

Needless to say I'm in the camp that hopes you continue to support Insteon.  At least already already existing hardware. 

I assume the problem is figuring out how to connect the PLM to new hardware, or perhaps switching to the other USB PLM.   If nothing else, perhaps UDI could create a hybrid system... let the ISY controller software upgrade to the new hardware platform, disable much of the current firmware in the 994 and make it a network slave to the new ISY controller.

[garybixler]

3 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

2. INSTEON: we are debating whether or not we want to support it at all
3. Modules:
-- ELK is migrated to a node server
-- Network module is no longer supported 
-- All climate modules are already supported as node servers

Michel

I am not only concerned about the lack of Instron support but also no Network module. Some network devices are not supported with a node sever and may never be. Also some NSs may not cover all the desired commands that can be supplemented with the Network module.

Thanks Gary

[Michel Kohanim]

@MrBill,

Has nothing to do with the PLM or hardware interface. It has to do with specs, APIs, and support of which we have none. As mentioned before, at the moment, this is not a choice for us since there's no information available to use to be able to size the effort of supporting new INSTEON devices. With regard to existing devices, we are debating native support (port from ISY) or a node server. Most probably the latter.

@garybixler,

Supporting network resources is not a problem and can be added depending on the number of users who request it. At the moment, everything works with network resources except for binary. Migrating binary resources to Polisy is non-trivial. 

With kind regards,
Michel

[Brian H]

That does not sound good at all.

Almost like the old private companies over protective ways.  Are still being followed by Richmond Capital Partners. Don't help anyone. Even companies responsible for a portion of their sales and popularity of Insteon. That now seems to be dwindling.

Push their HUB with all its limitations and the new APP that from all accounts is half baked and doesn't support half of the modules the they presently sell.

I saw it all the way back to the release of Insteon. In the now defunct Developers Group. There was list of potential major manufactures wanting to license the Insteon technology. It quietly disappeared and I understand many are now doing Z-Wave. ?

Edited March 9, 2021 by Brian H

[palayman]

14 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

With regard to existing devices, we are debating native support (port from ISY) or a node server. Most probably the latter.

 @Michel Kohanim Thanks for clarifying the your statement about potentially not supporting Insteon at all.

[Jimbo.Automates]

I would vote to very much keep current Insteon support with the port from ISY.

 

[Michel Kohanim]

@Jimbo,

Why would it matter if the functionality is the same? 

With kind regards,
Michel

[Jimbo.Automates]

@Jimbo,
Why would it matter if the functionality is the same? 
With kind regards,
Michel

Faster response. But if node names are all ported over so I don't have to change all my 100s of programs then maybe not a huge deal.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[MrBill]

15 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Has nothing to do with the PLM or hardware interface. It has to do with specs, APIs, and support of which we have none. As mentioned before, at the moment, this is not a choice for us since there's no information available to use to be able to size the effort of supporting new INSTEON devices. With regard to existing devices, we are debating native support (port from ISY) or a node server. Most probably the latter.

Thank You for clarifying your thoughts about Insteon.  This is a much better prognosis than your original statement, "INSTEON: we are debating whether or not we want to support it at all."  Which left me wondering when (now or later) I should start evaluating other platforms.  I'm too invested in Insteon to change course on switching at this point, plus the fact I don't particularity care for the way scene's don't work simultaneously in z-wave.  Z-wave signal strength also scares me, although if I "went all in" that shouldn't be a concern.    In my prior post I was just spit balling suggestions to keep Insteon rolling for those of us invested in Insteon, although even I saw the huge fallacy that my thought really only works for those that already own a 994, it's not a path forward for new UDI customers.

[Michel Kohanim]

@MrBill,

At the end of the day, it would be difficult to continue supporting something for which there's no demand outside of our existing customers (<5% of our sales) and no APIs/specs. So, of course we will do our utmost to make sure our existing customers are taken care of with existing specs/devices. The rest is pretty much up to SmartHome/INSTEON. If 13 years of history is any indication, I wouldn't put much hope on things changing. 

With kind regards,
Michel

[hart2hart]

@MrBill,
At the end of the day, it would be difficult to continue supporting something for which there's no demand outside of our existing customers ( With kind regards,
Michel

Michel,

I felt and continue to feel that UDI is one of the best companies and staff that I’ve ever encountered. However, this revelation about POLISY after it was targeted as a replacement for ISY which supports Insteon is very concerning to me.

Fully understanding and respecting that UDI is a business and you need to make decisions in its interest, we with large investments in insteon need to make plans for our future.

I for one am not moving to zwave. Additionally, I don’t want a cobbled together solution that will slowly loose support as could happen over time with UDI and Insteon.

If I need to change platforms away from Insteon and select supporting HA controllers I need to know that so I can research it and start making plans over the next couple years. I don’t want to be in a position of making an abrupt decision. My true preference is staying with UDI and the incredible team here on the forum.


Thanks as always for incredible support,

Paul

[Michel Kohanim]

@hart2hart,

As I mentioned before, we'll do our utmost to support our existing customers with existing devices (as we always have). This said, there are things that are out of our hands. I cannot guarantee that we can pull a miracle when you need to replace your dead switch (or PLM) with a new switch (or something) for which we have absolutely no specs, no APIs, no contacts, etc. We are not going to back to those painful days of hacking, reverse engineering, and putting all our efforts in getting things to work for INSTEON/SmartHome. It's just not a sustainable business model.

With kind regards,
Michel

[Teken]

Michel,

Back in the day I recalled Steve Lee was a team member with UDI. He doesn’t post much so don’t know his current status. Given his many years at Smartlabs along with his direct knowledge of Insteon and connections with the same.

Is Steve Lee no longer a resource and conduit to Smartlabs?!?

Regardless, please do add my name to the list for Alpha / Beta trials with respect to Insteon / Energy Management within the Polyisy!