Alternative to Insteon Motion Sensor II?

[ResIpsa]

Hi all. I recently installed a couple of the new Nest Cams in my backyard. They work fine and have a very nice image, but like any consumer grade security camera, their night vision leaves a bit to be desired.

 

Over the weekend I discovered quite advertently that the quality of the nighttime image on my Google Nest Cams is significantly improved if my patio string lights are on. For that reason, I am looking for a way to trigger the patio lights when there is motion in the yard (the patio lights operate on an Insteon Outdoor On/Off module with a Keypad as a controller). I figure my options are:

 

1) Mount Insteon motion sensors near my Nest Cams and have them trigger the patio lights. My concern with this option is the negative reviews of the Motion Sensor II, as well as the fact that it’s technically rated for indoor use only.

 

2) Is there a better motion sensor that operates on a different protocol that I could integrate into my ISY 994 or possibly a Polisy (if I were to get one)?

 

3) Is anyone aware of a way to use Google Home notifications linked with IFTTT to trigger ISY programs?

 

Thanks for any input. I’ve been an Insteon and ISY user for 15 years but i have been mostly out of the game lately.

[larryllix]

I use an older MS I Insteon MS on my front porch to detect people on the porch (package delivery?)

I have made a three sided aluminum box to protect it from any snow or rain that could blow up into the soffits where it is mounted. It works well most of the time...

however, insects love to crawl across the lens face and trigger my doorbell and alexa vocal annunciation with false alarms occasionally. This drove me crazy trying to figure it out until I saw the bugs finally. Looking up and down the street for a leaving delivery van or running kid never found any explanation.

If you have ever witnessed any MS outdoor lights flashing on and off in a snow or rain storm you will know what to expect from false alarms. I have my trigger sensing logically ANDed with some nasty weather conditions (rain, snow, and high winds) to eliminate some of that.

[Teken]

I would suggest you go a different route and purchase some solar powered motion lights instead. This allows flexible placement, outdoor rated, and no worries about battery replacement and 120 VAC power. I've been testing the following 268 LED version as seen here for almost a year with fantastic results:

https://www.amazon.com/Solar-Lights-Outdoor-Motion-Sensor/dp/B085242PLC/ref=sr_1_53?dchild=1&keywords=solar+motion+light&qid=1634591168&sr=8-53 

They are extremely bright and if installed at the proper height will offer incredible light coverage. As seen here the motion light offers four sided illumination which offers great coverage. The MS is very sensitive and the stated 30 meter range is spot on and goes further if mounted higher.

As it relates to video security proper lighting helps reduce motion blur / ghosting. But, you can only expect so much from a tiny sensor and hence its important to have a camera with a large sensor 1/1.8" ~ 1/1.2". All of this must tie into a camera system that offers WDR of at least 130, low lux of at least 0.000X, aperture of at least F1.0, and proper focal length to ID the target.

A 2.8 mm is great to see a wide area but terrible to identify a face past 6 meters. The DORI specification of each camera should be read and understood if you expect to ID a person. When in doubt about focal length a vari-focal lens camera should be purchased which allows you to fine tune the FOV for the expected target area.

At the end of the day a door bell camera or any of the toy like camera's from the likes of Nest, Google, etc will never offer you any serious night time money shot. Hence its imperative that the property use perimeter lighting that is proactive and reactive while reducing long term energy costs. 

[Bizywk]

I've been searching for a replacement Insteon Motion II sensor since late last year and can't find them anywere.   Out of frustration, I contacted Insteon directly to see if I could get the necessary repair part for my home system.  They informed me that beyond the long time supply chain issues that has had most Insteon parts in very short supply for an extended period of time, that at some point they decided to permanently discontinued making the Motion II sensor with no alternate to choose from. 

As a community, we need to figure out a solution to the original posters question:   Is there a viable Alternative to the now discontinued Insteon Motion Sensor II?

[ResIpsa]

IMHO you’re thinking too small - we should be looking for a viable alternative to INSTEON not just one or two of their devices. I have begun selling my Insteon devices and transitioning to Lutron.


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[Bizywk]

I see where you're coming from, and I think you have a very reasonable response given the apparent slow motion demise of the Insteon brand.    I have been grappling with the same decision myself for several months now.

 

However, its hard to argue, even with the current product line neglect, that Insteon isn't still superior to every other competing product line out there in terms of reliability, flexibility, scalability and performance.  I have a large home installation with a substantial time and money investment in Insteon that I REALLY don't want to replace.

 

[lilyoyo1]

23 minutes ago, ResIpsa said:

IMHO you’re thinking too small - we should be looking for a viable alternative to INSTEON not just one or two of their devices. I have begun selling my Insteon devices and transitioning to Lutron.


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How is that small thinking? It's cheaper and easier to use a separate device than rip out an entire working system. 

Would you remodel your whole kitchen because kitchen aide no longer makes your original microwave?

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, Bizywk said:

I see where you're coming from, and I think you have a very reasonable response given the apparent slow motion demise of the Insteon brand.    I have been grappling with the same decision myself for several months now.

 

However, its hard to argue even with the current product line neglect, that Insteon isn't still superior to every other product competing product line out there in terms of reliability, flexibility, scalability and performance.  I have a large home installation with a substantial time and money investment in Insteon that I REALLY don't want to replace.

 

I wouldn't grapple to hard. I'd have a plan for future issues but if everything is working now, why spending thousands over 50 bucks

[Techman]

31 minutes ago, Bizywk said:

I've been searching for a replacement Insteon Motion II sensor since late last year and can't find them anywere.   Out of frustration, I contacted Insteon directly to see if I could get the necessary repair part for my home system.  They informed me that beyond the long time supply chain issues that has had most Insteon parts in very short supply for an extended period of time, that at some point they decided to permanently discontinued making the Motion II sensor with no alternate to choose from. 

As a community, we need to figure out a solution to the original posters question:   Is there a viable Alternative to the now discontinued Insteon Motion Sensor II?

If you have Z-wave then the Aeotec Multisensor 7 or Aeotec Motion Sensor are both excellent products. In addition to motion they also show temperature and humidity depending on which one you use.

[Bizywk]

 

Thanks lilyoyo1.  We're still holding our cards where they are for now.    If I could find a supply of Motion Sensors to replace the one that just went bad, that would be great.   

My wife didn't see the value in the home automation system when I proposed the project, but lately she's sure been hinting that trying to live without the one bad sensor is difficult.     I spoiled her. 

[ResIpsa]

How is that small thinking? It's cheaper and easier to use a separate device than rip out an entire working system. 
Would you remodel your whole kitchen because kitchen aide no longer makes your original microwave?

I never suggested anyone should rip out their entire installation. I’m not doing that myself. The Insteon devices I have sold are unused devices that I never got around to installing. In the past 18 months, when I have had an opportunity/need to replace a device, I have gone with Lutron over Insteon. So to use your rather poor analogy, I would buy a new Samsung microwave because it uses current tech rather hoping kitchenaid decides to grace us with a replacement microwave.


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[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, ResIpsa said:

I never suggested anyone should rip out their entire installation. I’m not doing that myself. The Insteon devices I have sold are unused devices that I never got around to installing. In the past 18 months, when I have had an opportunity/need to replace a device, I have gone with Lutron over Insteon. So to use your rather poor analogy, I would buy a new Samsung microwave because it uses current tech rather hoping kitchenaid decides to grace us with a replacement microwave.


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I apologize. When you stated you were selling your insteon devices and transitioning to lutron, i mistakenly took it as you were pulling things out and installing lutron not selling unused devices. Now that statement is completely clear. 

[matapan]

I have a few ideas to put forward that I haven't fully qualified. That said, I can't think of any negatives at the moment:

1. Use a X10 motion sensor. They're wireless, battery operated and low cost. Install a tranceiver to convert the signal to powerline X10 near your PLM and I think this might be an easy way to achieve your objectives. Some of the motion sensors have seals to make them usable outdoors. Both the sensor and tranceivers are pretty readily available.

2. Use an older Insteon motion sensor. They have programmable countdown timers. I think the default is 30 seconds but you can adjust the ON time to be longer. 

3. Use a ZWave motion sensor if you have the add on Zwave board in your ISY. If you go this route, I would make sure the countdown timer for the ON duration is adjustable to your requirements. I know that with the one ZWave motion sensor I've tried so far, the countdown duration is a fixed 4 minutes and it cannot be adjusted.

 

[lilyoyo1]

17 hours ago, matapan said:

I have a few ideas to put forward that I haven't fully qualified. That said, I can't think of any negatives at the moment:

1. Use a X10 motion sensor. They're wireless, battery operated and low cost. Install a tranceiver to convert the signal to powerline X10 near your PLM and I think this might be an easy way to achieve your objectives. Some of the motion sensors have seals to make them usable outdoors. Both the sensor and tranceivers are pretty readily available.

2. Use an older Insteon motion sensor. They have programmable countdown timers. I think the default is 30 seconds but you can adjust the ON time to be longer. 

3. Use a ZWave motion sensor if you have the add on Zwave board in your ISY. If you go this route, I would make sure the countdown timer for the ON duration is adjustable to your requirements. I know that with the one ZWave motion sensor I've tried so far, the countdown duration is a fixed 4 minutes and it cannot be adjusted.

 

I'd go with option 3 as that's best for future proofing. If you can't get a plm for insteon that means X10 dies with it