Insteon Alternative?

[upstatemike]

10 minutes ago, io_guy said:

I remember when this forum used to be very good at staying on topic and technical...  Oh well.  

Boy those were some boring times... glad we are well past that!

To recap from the 2nd post the technical answer was Z-Wave.

[PatPend]

On 11/25/2021 at 8:09 AM, Silversop said:

Does anyone have a solid (and one that's not going to go out of business) brand that they are using for wall outlets that work with the ISY?  So many to choose from. 

I'm in the same boat.  I had better results with Jasco outlets (UltraPro/GE Enbrighten/Honeywell) than Leviton.  Although I preferred Leviton's aesthetics they didn't work well.

[oberkc]

Don't know whether they are going out of business but I, too, used the GE/Jasco outlets and they work very well.  At one point they were available at Lowes, but I don't see them anymore at my location.

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, oberkc said:

Don't know whether they are going out of business but I, too, used the GE/Jasco outlets and they work very well.  At one point they were available at Lowes, but I don't see them anymore at my location.

Ge sold their lighting stuff. The company Jasco makes them and has a licensing agreement to use Ge's name. They are still making them 

[upstatemike]

If you are using Z-Wave I'm not sure picking a single brand has any meaning unless you are going to install everything all at once and want the devices to match. Brands will change their product or outsource and sell rebranded items made by others such that staying within a particular brand over time really has no meaning anymore. The best you can do is settle on a single technology and even that question is not yet settled for most people here.

[peterathans]

I'm curious about the comment above that "Although I preferred Leviton's aesthetics they didn't work well" -- how about some specifics?  Do the switches not communicate reliably with the zwave network?  Does manual operation not always work reliably?  Are the switches physically deficient (plastic cracks, etc)?

I'm in the same boat in looking at new z-wave products to upgrade my system from Insteon.

[Jimini]

I personally never tried the Leviton devices.  About three years ago when I finally decided to replace my X10 system that I had been using for over 20 years at two successive homes, I looked at various forums including this one.  I liked the ISY controller and it appeared that Insteon, especially the new modules with RF as well as AC-line communication was favored by what I read so I went "hole-hog" and replaced my X10 system with ISY and Insteon.  

It would certainly be preferred if there was a technology that was supported by more than one manufacturer.  But I guess patents as well as a small market are making that difficult.

[lilyoyo1]

48 minutes ago, Jimini said:

I personally never tried the Leviton devices.  About three years ago when I finally decided to replace my X10 system that I had been using for over 20 years at two successive homes, I looked at various forums including this one.  I liked the ISY controller and it appeared that Insteon, especially the new modules with RF as well as AC-line communication was favored by what I read so I went "hole-hog" and replaced my X10 system with ISY and Insteon.  

It would certainly be preferred if there was a technology that was supported by more than one manufacturer.  But I guess patents as well as a small market are making that difficult.

??? Not understanding what you're saying. Zwave is supported by more than 1 mfg. The Isy also supports multiple protocols

[Jimini]

Sorry, you are apparently pointing out the inadequacy  of my investigation 3 years ago or the addition of more ZWave manufacturers since then.  Once I decided on Insteon, I had not thought there was a need to continue watching alternate or new technologies.  That is certainly no longer correct.   Thanks for pointing out ZWave as a possible alternative.  

[PatPend]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:11 PM, peterathans said:

I'm curious about the comment above that "Although I preferred Leviton's aesthetics they didn't work well" -- how about some specifics?  Do the switches not communicate reliably with the zwave network?  Does manual operation not always work reliably?  Are the switches physically deficient (plastic cracks, etc)?

I'm in the same boat in looking at new z-wave products to upgrade my system from Insteon.

That comment was referring to the Leviton ZW15R-1BW Smart Outlet.  This is a Zwave Plus device of which I purchased several in an effort to build out my mesh.  Aesthetically the design of these outlets appealed to me because they have a clean look with no visible logo when installed, and the flush round button and hidden LED is more elegant to my eye than, say, GE Enbrighten outlets.  Last but not least the fact the lower outlet is always on rather than the upper outlet worked better for my purposes.  

Unfortunately the RF performance of these outlets sucked, for me.  I could not get them to reliably join the network and when they did, they worked poorly.  Maybe 1 out of 10 times they would respond to a command.  Two of these couldn't even communicate line-of-sight across a 25' room.  The other thing that bugged me is the long-press needed to get into programming mode.  One or twice this is fine but after the 10th, 20th, 30th time trying different configurations it really gets old.  Being relatively inexperienced at Zwave, and believing Leviton was a top-of-the-line product, I was pretty frustrated.

I spent about half-hour on the phone with Leviton support.  In sum, there is no firmware upgrade available and because it was a range-related issue they couldn't help me.  

So I tried a few of the GE outlets and they just worked, perfectly and reliably.  They're not as pretty but they work great and truth be told nobody spends time looking at outlets especially those a foot off the floor.

Another thing I've learned during my recent foray into the Zwave world is not all devices are created equal.  With Insteon, you bought a dimmer and you knew you could adjust the dimming speed, default on level, how the LED behaves etc.  With Zwave devices this is not the case. So when evaluating a Zwave device for possible purchase I will go to the Zwave Alliance site, look up the device in question and check out the Configuration Parameters to see exactly which tricks the device can perform.

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by PatPend

[mmb]

2 hours ago, PatPend said:

So I tried a few of the GE outlets and they just worked, perfectly and reliably.  They're not as pretty but they work great and truth be told nobody spends time looking at outlets especially those a foot off the floor.

You're confirming what I'm seeing as well.  My GE switch (240V 40 amp) is rock solid and zero lag. 

Leviton plugin dimmer module is good (no drops) but I see a 2 or 3 second lag when turning on/off from the Polisy.

Zlink plugin dimmer module is ok (no drops) but I see a 2 or 3 second lag when turning on/off from the Polisy. No status update from the module to the controller.

Edited January 9, 2022 by mmb

[matapan]

On 12/21/2021 at 3:02 PM, Jimini said:

Sorry, you are apparently pointing out the inadequacy  of my investigation 3 years ago or the addition of more ZWave manufacturers since then.  Once I decided on Insteon, I had not thought there was a need to continue watching alternate or new technologies.  That is certainly no longer correct.   Thanks for pointing out ZWave as a possible alternative.  

I've been playing with Z-Wave devices recently. The observations others have had are worth repeating here:

1. The reliability of your Z-Wave installation is wholly dependent on the number of Z-Wave devices in your installation and how far each device is located from each other. For example, to have a one or two device installation that has one of the devices two floors up from the ISY is not going to work. But if you have devices that are close enough to talk to each other from the ISY, like lights on a string, it's possible to work your way up to the device two floors up with intermediary ZWave devices acting as repeaters and make it work.

2. When installing the new ZWave device, it's always a good practice to remove it from the network even if it was never asssociated with it before adding it. Also, it's a good practice to be within close proximity of the ISY when adding the device for the best experience adding the device, if at all possible.

I had the idea that ZWave was going to be a good and solid alternative to Insteon when I started this investigation. Now, I'm appreciating the existing Insteon installation for its capabilities and performance.

In addition to trying new ZWave devices, I've tried using a few Zigbee devices on a Smartthings hub. From the things I've tried so far, the Zigbee devices communicate farther than the ZWave 300 and 500 devices I've tried do. I haven't tried any 700 devices because the ISY module supports only 300 and 500 devices. I have not upgraded to Polisy yet.