ISY is going crazy

[robandcathy1]

So I have this issue that I cant narrow down. My lights turn on at random and off. My girlfriend tries to take a shower and the lights as well as fan just turns off, she screams at alexa to turn them back on this works for a minuet then they go back off again, she repeats this several times during the shower. Now she goes downstairs to get ready same issue. I have about 56 devices so far. I also noticed issue that at times my garage door will just open while im at work and several different lights are on when I come home. This can be frustrating for security reasons. She does not turn light on via alexa but a local tap. During day no one home to say anything to alexa or to isy but lights still turn on. I have no programs written at all. So no timer issues with any timers and the devices are not linked. Recently I deleted and factory reset ISY, PLM I do have maybe 4 z-wave switches but those never seem to be affected. Not sure what is going on if its a isy or a switch. I recently was able to get a few new switches after a previous issue with this seeing how they were older but now same issue all over again. The day in question is 3/10/2022 and times as said above are 520 am to 615am and around 145 pm.

Thanks for any help

ISY Log.v5.3.2__Thu 2022.03.10 04.38.25 PM.txt

[lilyoyo1]

Since you don't have any programs, unplug the isy for a few days to see if the behavior continues

[robandcathy1]

Im a electrical specialist for Freightliner Trucks and dumb of me not to think of that. Thanks will try.

[robandcathy1]

So with ISY had zero issues today. Not sure of next step to narrow this down. I send the log which does not tell me much except lights are commanded on then just turn off with out a command. Does anyone have any ideas how to narrow this down? I have read articles that others have experienced but the fixes did not work for me, unfortunately. There has to be a way to see what device is sending out a command to turn on 6 random lights and open garage...right? this time and next time turn on different devices. Im just trying to figure out how to get to the root cause. Event viewer only seems to record when open at 5am im not up to set it uo as well as 145pm im at work. As stated previously I have no timers, motion sensors set up and when isy is unplugged everything works fine.

Thanks for any help in advance

Rob

[lilyoyo1]

It's only been a day. Keep it unplugged to see what happens over the next weekend. If nothing happens, book up the Isy and see what happens. If it happens, delete the device from the isy and then re-add

[MrBill]

My son had a light that was doing weird things.  (he uses an Insteon hub, not an ISY).  After months I was finally at his house when it happened and he brought the topic up that he must have a bad switch.  It wasn't a bad switch, after a couple of hours of playing with his system I found that he had IFTTT connected to Alexa and Alexa connected to the Insteon Hub.  Somewhere along the way he had been playing with an IFTTT automation.  When he was done and decided he didn't like it he just deleted IFTTT off his phone thinking that would delete the automation....   well needless to say it didn't, it simply deleted the app from his phone, not the cloud based automation, nor the Alexa connector.

So think thru things you've tried, perhaps using other services or devices... maybe it's not all deleted...  Somewhere you have an automation.  You mentioned your wife yells at Alexa to turn it back on, have you checked carefully that there's no Alexa routine or skill that might be turning things off?

 

[Javi]

I suspect an automation is running somewhere like @MrBill suggests.  Do you or have you ever set up a geofence, IFTTT, Alexa, or Google Assistant automation?

 

 

[apostolakisl]

I suppose if unplugging ISY fixes the problem for sure, then what I have to say here won't matter.  But, I have been on this forum for over a decade and I have never heard of anyone having an ISY do what troubles you.  If it was ISY, it wasn't ISY's fault, it was programs that were doing exactly what they were supposed to do, just that the person writing the program didn't understand ISY programming or had a program they forgot about.  But you have zero programs, so that rules out programs.

I have had Insteon/ISY get bad links.  I believe the source of these bad links was me moving switches around and linking/unlinking a bunch of stuff.  ISY seems to have been the source of the problems by failing to remove links from its database.  So even after factory reset and restore from ISY, ISY just put the bad links back on the device.  While ISY may have been the source of the bad links, once the links are written, it is not ISY mediating the problem, the links are on the devices and the problem would still be there even if you unplugged it.  The only cure was to delete the devices from ISY and add them back manually.  My symptoms were that lights would seemingly randomly turn on or off.  But it wasn't random, it was someone/something controlling a device elsewhere in the house.

In summary, if it always certain devices that have the issue, consider deleting those devices from ISY, factory resetting them, and then adding them back to ISY.  The problem, however, is that it may not be the "misbehaving" device that has the bad link but rather the other device in the bad link pair.

Of note, using ISY to check the links on a device and compare to the database does not help diagnose this problem because ISY thinks the links should be there.  However, if you run a link scan, then completely delete the device and add it back in, re-creating all the scenes and settings as before, you will see that the device now has fewer links than before.

[apostolakisl]

18 minutes ago, Javi said:

I suspect an automation is running somewhere like @MrBill suggests.  Do you or have you ever set up a geofence, IFTTT, Alexa, or Google Assistant automation?

 

 

On this line of thought, if you unplug your ISY from the internet but leave it plugged into your PLM, any outside interference from the likes of IFTTT, Alexa, etc will be eliminated.  

[robandcathy1]

Boy oh boy thanks for all the incite, I do have no timers set up or programs. I do however have alexa setup through the portal as I turn things on and off also I have 2 motion sensors and 3 contact sensors set up. 2 months ago while working with Steve Lee I deleted and resetup all devices. I did a factory reset on isy, plm, portal to reset alexa. Now I have never set up alexa to run any routines or timers per their app. Only to turn on and off lights and this is setup only through isy portal not alexa itself. The random lights are not connected to each other. Eg game room light is not connected to downstairs light which is also no connected to garage door etc. I do have 2 and 3 way switches installed which work fine that is extent of my automation to this point. Have another 30 devices to add. During reinstall I also factory reset every switch to narrow this issue down. Im just trying to figure what is triggering this. The biggest issue is its located mainly to my downstairs, but every now and then it will affect upstairs without rhyme or reason. Not saying isy is the issue rather asking how can I find out what can be broadcasting random signals and why. If 1 device was not working I probably would rule the switch but in morning several lights go off at different times. Not like the same 3 lights go off at same time, rather downstairs bathroom goes off then 22 seconds later game room light goes off, and on the flip side 130 pm while at work and when I come home upstairs fan is on, bedroom light is on, upstairs bathroom is on and garage is open. How do I narrow this down? I think I tried everything I could. Not sure what resources isy has for this. For me event viewer only shows what events  happened as of startup. Id like to see device and command sent to start this chain of actions if possible. Unplugging ISY fixed this but weather this is a isy issue or plm or portal not sure. Not pointing fingures the isy does what it is asked so just trying to figure out what and why is isy performing random tasks. Will a new plosiy unit solve this? Im willing to pay the money to keep my girlfriend quiet but dont want to here her complain I spent 300$ to still have issues. Even though I still may buy it just because I can.

[garybixler]

Do you have port forwarding set up for the ISY through the router?

[Javi]

Have you tried what @apostolakisl suggested?  To eliminate the possibility the commands are coming from a source outside of ISY or PLM, disconnect the internet ethernet cable.  ISY and PLM will still function but completely remove the possibility of outside interference.

[larryllix]

Are you running IoP or an ISY994?

I had several random lights go on with IoP but they weren't repetitive, except for one particular light / scene.  wrote it off to an OnOffLinc that went bad a few years ago and marked it for death this time.

From your log, I see a lot of action around yur garage door system. I would try unplugging it (them) for a day and see what happens. I have two GDO from different technologies and they both interfered with my Insteon signals and HA. The latest one with DC motor and battery backup, drove my HA down to about 10% reliability and gave me the clue what was happening for the last few years. Two FilterLincs resolved those problems.

[robandcathy1]

Sorry took a break from this still persisting issue. I have isy 994 with the most current software. Since issue started I would have lights turn off at random and a slew of lights just turn on at same time. I would come home to a open garage door open and fans on as well as 6-8 lights on. None program related, so I unplugged the isy and used them just as remote switches, No issues during to 4 day trial. Plugged isy in bam issues. Being frustrated is factory restored isy, plm and alexa. Started fresh added only about 20 of the 80 devices, my most used, at this point I have maybe 4 programs only motion. None linked to my upstairs bathroom fan, light or vanity light. About after a week my gf is showering again and everything in bathroom goes off at about 540 am. Again I have no timers set up since fresh install and nothing linked to those 3 switches. So i used paid support with steve lee which is wonderful with home automation and could fine a issue. Now since complete reinstall I have no issues with lights turning on, just they turn off. Kinda of hairy trying to use rest room and it goes dark. So I decided since isy does not log things in real time at least for me to keep event on over 2 nights to capture what is going on and between 530 am and 550 am to see what is triggering a off command to 3 switches at same time. Now i know the isy community like all the info so I logged both level 1 and 2. I cant make head or tales of what is happening but I will attach logs for better understanding people to view and advise.

Thank for any help

Rob

At some point it should be written in code to announce users that a switch or motion sensor is a issue. Many more lame users like me are depending on a simple user interface vs the mix/mux of hoping i can code  or get it to work. I have used ISY for well over 8 years but just enough to get simple programs working. Isy need to really stream line efforts with gui to make it fool proof. I know udi is not alexa, but gui is so much simpler. 

ISY-Events-Log.v5.3.2__Wed 2022.04.13 06.00.15 AM.txt ISY-Events-Log.v5.3.2__Thu 2022.04.14 04.27.15 PM.txt

[smacbride]

Did you un-plug the ISY box from the internet but keep it running?  This would rule out any outside interference as mentioned above. 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, robandcathy1 said:

Sorry took a break from this still persisting issue. I have isy 994 with the most current software. Since issue started I would have lights turn off at random and a slew of lights just turn on at same time. I would come home to a open garage door open and fans on as well as 6-8 lights on. None program related, so I unplugged the isy and used them just as remote switches, No issues during to 4 day trial. Plugged isy in bam issues. Being frustrated is factory restored isy, plm and alexa. Started fresh added only about 20 of the 80 devices, my most used, at this point I have maybe 4 programs only motion. None linked to my upstairs bathroom fan, light or vanity light. About after a week my gf is showering again and everything in bathroom goes off at about 540 am. Again I have no timers set up since fresh install and nothing linked to those 3 switches. So i used paid support with steve lee which is wonderful with home automation and could fine a issue. Now since complete reinstall I have no issues with lights turning on, just they turn off. Kinda of hairy trying to use rest room and it goes dark. So I decided since isy does not log things in real time at least for me to keep event on over 2 nights to capture what is going on and between 530 am and 550 am to see what is triggering a off command to 3 switches at same time. Now i know the isy community like all the info so I logged both level 1 and 2. I cant make head or tales of what is happening but I will attach logs for better understanding people to view and advise.

Thank for any help

Rob

At some point it should be written in code to announce users that a switch or motion sensor is a issue. Many more lame users like me are depending on a simple user interface vs the mix/mux of hoping i can code  or get it to work. I have used ISY for well over 8 years but just enough to get simple programs working. Isy need to really stream line efforts with gui to make it fool proof. I know udi is not alexa, but gui is so much simpler. 

ISY-Events-Log.v5.3.2__Wed 2022.04.13 06.00.15 AM.txt 8.83 kB · 3 downloads ISY-Events-Log.v5.3.2__Thu 2022.04.14 04.27.15 PM.txt 102.21 kB · 0 downloads

Did you factory reset the individual devices

[larryllix]

Do you have any programmed Insteon scenes that control the devices randomly changing?

[robandcathy1]

21 hours ago, smacbride said:

Did you un-plug the ISY box from the internet but keep it running?  This would rule out any outside interference as mentioned above. 

I  unplugged power completely from isy, and all switches worked fine no issues but even with a factory restore of ISY then re adding them had same issues

 

10 hours ago, larryllix said:

Do you have any programmed Insteon scenes that control the devices randomly changing?

Only devices that randomly change would be garage motion and hallway motion, otherwise I have no other programs.

 

21 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Did you factory reset the individual devices

I have not I assume ISY would over write everything in the switch when added. 10 years of insteon and never had this issue with several new complete reinstalls. If there is a easy way to factory reset and add Id try but some of my devices the address has been painted over by painters, or faded. I didnt think switches retain any kind of memory and that once you add them you get prompted to erase any links. I say yes. Now I did have at a time long ago set up by UDI where my bathroom was controlled by a program written by actually the owner Michell. It kinda worked but the outcome was not what I wanted due to to single press or double press changed how program would work. My family members or guests expect 1 press and lights go on and kids that wouldnt wait double press since they know of that function.  Sometimes it would take a moment to turn on and people would just press again and again outside the double press window and sometimes inside the double press window. I did have that program running to include a motion sensor which no is in a closet. I figured resetting everything except switches would fix problem and it did for maybe 2 weeks. Then it all started back up. I guess I can try to factory reset switches but the 3 switches were  never linked together. Eg. Walk in bathroom motion would turn vanity on, then off in 20min. Shower light would turn on at 540am to 620 then off, if bathroom fan is switched on wait 20 min then off. I dont have access to original program Michell wrote but maybe it did integrate the 3. Now to house not sure why I was coming home to completely different switches going on while away. That has not been a issue lately. Thanks for time reading and posting to all 3 mods.

[robandcathy1]

Edit I forgot to mention that issue is 90% of time between 530am and 6am. Otherwise usually works good. I have no programs set in those time periods and no programs that refer to the 3 devices. That is why i presented log files because the log files should show fan, shower and vanity going off at same time but not sure what triggered it. Mostly when gf i taking a shower. So she leaves her light on phone on so she can complete her shower.

[lilyoyo1]

25 minutes ago, robandcathy1 said:

I  unplugged power completely from isy, and all switches worked fine no issues but even with a factory restore of ISY then re adding them had same issues

 

Only devices that randomly change would be garage motion and hallway motion, otherwise I have no other programs.

 

I have not I assume ISY would over write everything in the switch when added. 10 years of insteon and never had this issue with several new complete reinstalls. If there is a easy way to factory reset and add Id try but some of my devices the address has been painted over by painters, or faded. I didnt think switches retain any kind of memory and that once you add them you get prompted to erase any links. I say yes. Now I did have at a time long ago set up by UDI where my bathroom was controlled by a program written by actually the owner Michell. It kinda worked but the outcome was not what I wanted due to to single press or double press changed how program would work. My family members or guests expect 1 press and lights go on and kids that wouldnt wait double press since they know of that function.  Sometimes it would take a moment to turn on and people would just press again and again outside the double press window and sometimes inside the double press window. I did have that program running to include a motion sensor which no is in a closet. I figured resetting everything except switches would fix problem and it did for maybe 2 weeks. Then it all started back up. I guess I can try to factory reset switches but the 3 switches were  never linked together. Eg. Walk in bathroom motion would turn vanity on, then off in 20min. Shower light would turn on at 540am to 620 then off, if bathroom fan is switched on wait 20 min then off. I dont have access to original program Michell wrote but maybe it did integrate the 3. Now to house not sure why I was coming home to completely different switches going on while away. That has not been a issue lately. Thanks for time reading and posting to all 3 mods.

It does not. Only a factory reset clearly erases everything

[robandcathy1]

On 4/15/2022 at 6:03 PM, lilyoyo1 said:

It does not. Only a factory reset clearly erases everything

 

I did factory reset isy, plm and alexa app. I did not reset the switches as far as I know the do not have memory like plm or isy and when you readd them isy clears memory and overwrites new commands. Everything was factory reset then I added 20 devices which mostly work except upstairs bathroom that automatically turns off 3 switches in bathroom without a program being written at about 530 am to 6am, hence the log. With isy unplugged all switches work normal. I have only maybe 4 programs written at moment, none for the bathroom switches.

[lilyoyo1]

2 minutes ago, robandcathy1 said:

 

I did factory reset isy, plm and alexa app. I did not reset the switches as far as I know the do not have memory like plm or isy and when you readd them isy clears memory and overwrites new commands. Everything was factory reset then I added 20 devices which mostly work except upstairs bathroom that automatically turns off 3 switches in bathroom without a program being written at about 530 am to 6am, hence the log. With isy unplugged all switches work normal. I have only maybe 4 programs written at moment, none for the bathroom switches.

Factory reset has been a the number 1 piece of advice from every single veteran on here from the beginning. Since you dont want to take the advice given, you'll have to figure it out on your own. I'm not able to help you.

[Brian H]

10 minutes ago, robandcathy1 said:

 

I did factory reset isy, plm and alexa app. I did not reset the switches as far as I know the do not have memory like plm or isy and when you readd them isy clears memory and overwrites new commands. Everything was factory reset then I added 20 devices which mostly work except upstairs bathroom that automatically turns off 3 switches in bathroom without a program being written at about 530 am to 6am, hence the log. With isy unplugged all switches work normal. I have only maybe 4 programs written at moment, none for the bathroom switches.

The modules do have memory in them.  Links and other things. That can sometimes get corrupted,

The ISY994i has a feature that can read the modules link database and then a compare feature to see if they natch what should be in it.

[MrBill]

29 minutes ago, robandcathy1 said:

and when you readd them isy clears memory and overwrites new commands

sort of, but not completely.   Even switches coming from the factory have garbage in the memory.  first thing I do with a new switch is factory reset it it to zero the link memory out and bring all the option flags to a known state.  I'm not sure why you thing adding to the ISY is a magic process that rights wrongs.

[Brian H]

We have seen new from the factory having test stuff in them including some with X10. Most do a factory reset as you mentioned to start with  a clean state.