apostolakisl Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, mmb said: Well I'd estimate there are several hundred hub users looking at HA right now. I literally have never seen so much activity wrt to Insteon Hub and people looking for solutions. If the Hub buys us a few more years of Insteon why not UDI? Would be curious to know just how many active hub users there are. Seems like it would be many thousands, not hundreds.
mmb Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, apostolakisl said: Would be curious to know just how many active hub users there are. Seems like it would be many thousands, not hundreds. Hub users seems to be collecting on Reddit since the Insteon forums are shutdown. There's lots of them and most posts are "I'm pissed off" and "how to make HA work with hub". I have two Hubs that are now bricks. Not happy Edited April 15, 2022 by mmb
apostolakisl Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 1 minute ago, lilyoyo1 said: I get what you mean by access point. However Tekken is looking at things in regards to home use. Most likely, existing users already have a strong mesh where the power of the hub isnt as much of a factor All the power to him if he can hack the access point, er I mean hub, and make it work as a hub again.
apostolakisl Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mmb said: Hub users seems to be collecting on Reddit since the Insteon forums are shutdown. There's lots of them and most posts are "I'm pissed off" and "how to make HA work with hub". Well if it can be figured out that would be great. My father in law has an insteon thermostat which he needs the hub to control remotely. He had some insteon cameras as well but I'm not sure if any of those work anymore. But I know the thermostat does. If the hub can not be hacked to work as a remote interface anymore, I'll dig out one of my old ISY's and set it up at his house. Trouble is, I'd have to let him use one of my spare PLM's. . . which gives me pause. Edited April 15, 2022 by apostolakisl
Teken Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 A number of years ago there was an Australian company modifying older Hubs to be used as a PLM to tie into the ISY Series Controller. There are at least two archived threads in this forum and others that talk about this solution. Having said this, I've not seen any new threads where someone has tried the same on the last generation Hub. The archive thread has a couple of photos of the internal wiring modifications.
GeorgeLG Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 20 minutes ago, mmb said: I'm provisioning a RPI with HA and have already tested access to the Hub by IP Port and User/PW pasted on the bottom - it works. Can you explain this in more detail please? What specific components are involved? Thanks, George
roberthleeii Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 20 minutes ago, mmb said: Hub users seems to be collecting on Reddit since the Insteon forums are shutdown. There's lots of them and most posts are "I'm pissed off" and "how to make HA work with hub". I have two Hubs that are now bricks. Not happy This would be a great time for UD to reach out there and offer a solution.....
lilyoyo1 Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, roberthleeii said: This would be a great time for UD to reach out there and offer a solution..... They need to have a solution that works first. With plms in short supply they have to make sure it's viable as well. 1
RPerrault Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 i don't see anywhere to plug in a plm on the nokia hub
GeorgeLG Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) It would seem that another opportunity would be to resume the server functions so that all installs would become whole. The viability of this would depend on the size of the installed base, the willingness to pay a fee, and the difficulty of getting cooperation from the ghosts of Insteon to be able to transition the code and database. It doesn't need any semiconductors or product development and server space is a commodity but it would require support from a company that just imploded. Judging from the way that was handled, a cooperative Insteon brain trust may be wishful thinking. George Edited April 15, 2022 by GeorgeLG
Teken Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, RPerrault said: i don't see anywhere to plug in a plm on the nokia hub The Nokia HUB is a PLM . . .
lilyoyo1 Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, roberthleeii said: This would be a great time for UD to reach out there and offer a solution..... They need to have a solution that works first. With plms in short supply they have to make sure it's viable as well.
RPerrault Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, Teken said: The Nokia HUB is a PLM . . . looks to use an external power supply - can it talk through that to the powerline?
Teken Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, RPerrault said: looks to use an external power supply - can it talk through that to the powerline? The Nokia HUB is like any of the Insteon HUB's which are dual band. So it does send Insteon signals via Power Line & RF.
RPerrault Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, Teken said: The Nokia HUB is like any of the Insteon HUB's which are dual band. So it does send Insteon signals via Power Line & RF. they do now (sorry - still aggravates me that the first generation devices were not dual band) my point is - how does the hub send its signal on the powerline - the interface to the powerline - if it uses an external power supply signal from hub ---> through transformer (?) to powerline?
RPerrault Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 made a bad assumption - Supply Voltage 120 VAC +/- 10%, 60Hz single phase
lilyoyo1 Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 27 minutes ago, RPerrault said: i don't see anywhere to plug in a plm on the nokia hub A plm doesn't plug into Nokia hub. It's a standalone product made by INSTEON not universal devices
Teken Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, RPerrault said: they do now (sorry - still aggravates me that the first generation devices were not dual band) my point is - how does the hub send its signal on the powerline - the interface to the powerline - if it uses an external power supply signal from hub ---> through transformer (?) to powerline? I think we need to step back for a moment and ask a relevant question. As of this writing there is / are not / has not / been any Nokia HUB released into the wild. If its true the Nokia line has been shelved this doesn't help you or anyone else. The next problem is the current Nokia HUB & Smart application does not support the inclusion of the Insteon hardware. This was stated to be TBA at some point but given the current state of affairs probably not.
Michel Kohanim Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 @mmb, Hub does not have bidirectional communications through TCP. So, it will require major development to get it to work. In the meantime, one of our very good friends provided us with the contact info for INSTEON manufacturing in China. They might still have some PLMs so we'll try to get as many as we can (and pray that they won't die). We shall keep you posted. With kind regards, Michel 7 3
Techman Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 @Michel Kohanim That sounds somewhat encouraging, Can you also find out if they're sitting with any other Insteon inventory that maybe they haven't been paid for and would like to sell? 1
Michel Kohanim Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 @Techman, yes ... With kind regards, Michel 1
khag7 Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 Trying to convince a hub user to switch to an ISY 994i The problem is: no PLM availability. The Insteon Hub has the PLM functionality inbuilt. But the Hub is now a brick. How hard would it be to use the components in the Insteon Hub to make a PLM? If someone could figure out how to turn the Hub into a PLM at least then people could buy a 994i and connect it to their "hub/plm" and continue on 1
RPerrault Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 my mind works differently - i think i stepped back too far - trying to understand the components - i don't want a nokia hub even if it would accept insteon devices - i would like to be able to replace a failed dimmer if necessary - trying to think through if a nokia dimmer could be provisioned manually as an insteon dimmer my guess is that smartlabs did not completely reinvent the wheel for nokia (it did not for best by broan) packet delivery - powerline and rf (same frequency) - that is not proof but does not exclude the possibility frame format - always whined about a powerline sniffer - wireshark - whatever - but there is someone that posted here on a sniffer for rf frequencies - super cool - be interesting to see that those nokia put out addressing scheme - i think someone said "The top external photo (Photo 1) shows an Insteon ID." hopefully hex command set - who knows but its probably the same - maybe enhanced data representation - ebcdic? - ok - probably safe to assume ascii but assumptions can make... my guess is that it would work - NOT that udi is endorsing that - just my guess no - it does not make a plm appear to know this - nor would it make other nokia devices work - my guess is that if someone has a working setup and has no replacement dimmers - or needs to add a dimmer or on/off switch - it would be welcome news i have no inside info but in my opinion, sharthome has always been a disreputable company - but while i am no fan of nokia, i don't have that same opinion of them - my guess is that they did their due diligence before jumping into bed with shartlabs - and the devices will be made available in my pointy head - my question was relevant
Teken Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, RPerrault said: my mind works differently - i think i stepped back too far - trying to understand the components - i don't want a nokia hub even if it would accept insteon devices - i would like to be able to replace a failed dimmer if necessary - trying to think through if a nokia dimmer could be provisioned manually as an insteon dimmer my guess is that smartlabs did not completely reinvent the wheel for nokia (it did not for best by broan) packet delivery - powerline and rf (same frequency) - that is not proof but does not exclude the possibility frame format - always whined about a powerline sniffer - wireshark - whatever - but there is someone that posted here on a sniffer for rf frequencies - super cool - be interesting to see that those nokia put out addressing scheme - i think someone said "The top external photo (Photo 1) shows an Insteon ID." hopefully hex command set - who knows but its probably the same - maybe enhanced data representation - ebcdic? - ok - probably safe to assume ascii but assumptions can make... my guess is that it would work - NOT that udi is endorsing that - just my guess no - it does not make a plm appear to know this - nor would it make other nokia devices work - my guess is that if someone has a working setup and has no replacement dimmers - or needs to add a dimmer or on/off switch - it would be welcome news i have no inside info but in my opinion, sharthome has always been a disreputable company - but while i am no fan of nokia, i don't have that same opinion of them - my guess is that they did their due diligence before jumping into bed with shartlabs - and the devices will be made available in my pointy head - my question was relevant I'm not sure if there is a question here but let me add my $0.00000000000001. Assuming the Nokia branded hardware ever came out it uses the same technology as Insteon. One of our forum members has proven the Nokia branded hardware can be included to the ISY Series Controller but it shows up as a unsupported device. Regardless, the only options as it relates to hardware is to repair existing ones - if you can. Buy used or NOS if and when they appear on the used market. Lastly, it behooves every single person to install a SPD at the service entrance / service panel to offer some form of protection on their Insteon investment. Dirty power is the primary killer of all electronics but especially true for Insteon. As almost every component used in their hardware is sub par junk!
Teken Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 20 minutes ago, khag7 said: Trying to convince a hub user to switch to an ISY 994i The problem is: no PLM availability. The Insteon Hub has the PLM functionality inbuilt. But the Hub is now a brick. How hard would it be to use the components in the Insteon Hub to make a PLM? If someone could figure out how to turn the Hub into a PLM at least then people could buy a 994i and connect it to their "hub/plm" and continue on As noted there is / was a company that performed a retrofit to allow the HUB to act as a PLM to integrate with the ISY Series Controller or any controller. This is just one example of the information as to what one person found and what they did to make it work as a PLM. https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeKit/comments/912rjm/insteon_hubpro_teardown/ 1
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